From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #425 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Monday, May 14 2001 Volume 03 : Number 425 In this issue: - Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #424 Re: more fag stuff Eno? Re: more [gay] stuff Re: dixon Death of a Piano (LONG SF Bay Area show review) Death of a Toy Piano ? Re: Death of a Toy Piano ? RE: Death of a Toy Piano ? Re: Death of a Toy Piano ? toy music Re: Death of a Toy Piano ? Keith Tippett/Julie Tippetts? Re: Death of a Toy Piano ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 05:35:46 -0400 From: "Jeton Ademaj" Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #424 bill: while i disagree with some of your assesments, i admire the simple directness u show in answering this thread. also, i'm glad someone commented on Zorn's sadopedopix being more (and worse) than mere 'artistic license'. btw, any sane person would hang themselves after spending an hour with Martha Bayles et. al., but what if Miles really did see himself as a pimp "turning out the youngest, hottest n freshest around"? The statements quoted may be as overripe as a moldy tomato and as incoherent as Great Dubya himself, but Miles seems to have really seen himself as an MC as well as Artist. Is the implication that he may have been at least partially opportunistic in his nurturing and use of other people's talents in and of itself "degrading and useless" or does it become so when it's done using a metaphor connected to transgressive sexuality? The same goes for discussions of the motivations in the playing of Mingus' and Dolphy's duets together. Looks like sex and politics are still queasy topics in Advanced Music. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 13:30:36 +0300 From: "Vincent Kargatis / Anne Larson" Subject: Re: more fag stuff > From: "Jeton Ademaj" > > That still doesn't answer the > question of hostility- who cares if someone speculates about Dolphy n Mingus > being hot for each other? History benefits from truth and truth benefits > from inquiry, so the better question is, who loses when truth gets out? Or > even when it gets mucked(?) with in some tiny context in some ivory tower > somewhere? This is easy, though it's a conglomerate of reasons (here I'm only explaining why people might react emotionally to these types of things, and exaggerating for effect while doing so). There's the general negative reaction to 'somebody says something stupid', consisting of shame that you share a world and species with this person, and the fear that others may share their opinion, and dread that you may have misjudged the external world such that you find their statement plainly idiotic and yet they are sitting there, espousing it, and thinking it's reasonable. :-) And then there's the angle that you care in some way about what was said, in this case, about the 'common wisdom' concerning these great musicians' work. Here, the reaction is against reading audiences possibly accepting the statement and walking away with a characterization of the music that's more social-theory-based, rather than creative-music-based, which you obviously think is the primary concern. Of course, here 'you' means 'I' :), and I don't mean to suggest that any of the above are valid intellectual approaches, but that's irrelevant to emotional reactions, and, well, you asked. Are you really puzzled by it? How about your reaction to hearing others say your best friend or spouse was a self-serving asshole who belittled people, when you thought that was competely inaccurate? Would you have no emotional reaction while you replied and tried to add 'truth' to the 'inquiry'? vince - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 09:02:33 EDT From: TagYrIt@aol.com Subject: Eno? - --part1_7b.14b13659.28313169_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/11/01 11:39:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jzitt@metatronpress.com writes: > n.p. Brian Eno and J. Peter Schwalm: Drawn from Life > What is this one? Dale. - --part1_7b.14b13659.28313169_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/11/01 11:39:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
jzitt@metatronpress.com writes:


n.p. Brian Eno and J. Peter Schwalm: Drawn from Life

What is this one?

Dale.
- --part1_7b.14b13659.28313169_boundary-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 11:39:29 -0400 From: "Dave Smey" Subject: Re: more [gay] stuff > > From: "Jeton Ademaj" > > > > That still doesn't answer the > > question of hostility- who cares if someone speculates about Dolphy n > Mingus > > being hot for each other? History benefits from truth and truth benefits > > from inquiry, so the better question is, who loses when truth gets out? Or > > even when it gets mucked(?) with in some tiny context in some ivory tower > > somewhere? As someone who frequents ivory towers myself, I assert that *I* care what happens because I'm in the audience. I go to a conference, say, and people get up to read papers. Ostensibly, they are getting up to share some idea they've developed that they think I might find interesting, right? Otherwise, what are we doing there? Yet the paper turns out to be, as my wife would say, "a big wank." The author has made no effort to explain his or her assumptions to someone who doesn't already share them -- rather the argument operates solely on the level of inference and innuendo. Of course if the author isn't disconnected from reality (s)he KNOWS that much if not most of the audience does not share the assumptions about what's important or interesting, how society works, how music relates to society, or how the listener should relate to music. He or she really has a high hurdle to get over if this paper is going to be convincing. But does he or she respond to that challenge with careful definitions of terms, real engagement of contrary arguments, etc? Nah, take the short cut instead -- blame the audience! If you don't buy it, it's because you are elitist, racist, classist, sexist, homophobic (usually this is implied right in the paper). Show palpable glee, and use the phrase "just doesn't get it" to dismiss your critics. This, I assert, is indeed a real pisser. (I was actually inspired to join this list because I recently heard a colleage rehash her "Zorn is an Asiatophile, the music is Asiophilic, and therefore you shouldn't listen to it" paper.) (And, speaking of my assumptions, it seems to me that the word "fag" remains pejorative, no matter how cheerfully you co-opt it. I'd rather shoot for a world where nobody says it rather than everybody.) - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 13:13:52 -0400 From: "George Scala" Subject: Re: dixon I just received my copy of "Odyssey" and it does indeed include the entirety of the "Collection" 2-LP set on Cadence. This fits onto one cd plus a little more so there is almost 5 CDs of previously unissued material. George Scala http://www.mindspring.com/~scala - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" To: "Herb Levy" Cc: ; Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 11:23 AM Subject: Re: dixon > > On Mon, 7 May 2001 23:01:00 -0500 Herb Levy wrote: > > > > There is is a dispute about what rights Dixon gave to Cadence when he > > previously licensed the limited LP set. Dixon considers their CD of > > the LP set is a bootleg. As far as I know, the Cadence CD is not > > signed and is not a limited edition. > > > > I'm sure that Patrice is right that some of the same material is on both sets. > > Just a guess, no idea really about the exact content but the David Moss clue > could indicate that some of the material was on the Cadence sets. > > Patrice. > > - > - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 13:29:48 -0400 (EDT) From: konrad Subject: Death of a Piano (LONG SF Bay Area show review) I wonder if anyone here has heard about Moe! Staiano's Moe!kestra. Yes he writes it that way. There was a concert last Saturday night in Oakland featuring the Western Light Orchestra, conducted by Bob Marsh, and Toychestra, and the Moe!kestra -- three sets. The Western Light i don't have too much to say about. There was no program, and no introduction, and i only recognized a few of the players. The performance consisted of Bob Marsh at a podium rigged with lights and switches and a pile of one- or two-word instructions laserprinted on sheets of paper strewn about the foot of the podium. There were about 8 musicians, consisting of percussion, cello, bass, trumpet/cornet, soprano/alto sax, tenor sax, and koto (what am i forgetting?). There set lasted about 30-40 minutes, as Marsh brought them through various phases and subgroupings using the instruction sheets and switching lights on and off. I have to admit it didn't seem to come together and it made me wonder how long these musicians had been playing together in this context. Toychestra is an lighthearted ensemble of 6 women who play toy instruments set up on ironing boards. I saw them once before and their costumes were more 'gyspy' than this performance, in which they donned a more slumber party look. Their music is kind of reminiscent of Commerical Album period Residents, mostly because of the cheap instrument synthesizers (toy guitars, keyboards and pocket phrase samplers) and noisemakers and the mid-tempo rhythm-loop structure of the music. They're very funny, and entertaining, but one wonders how much farther they can take it given the self imposed restriction of toy instrumentation. The Main Event was the Moe!kestra performance, Death of a Piano, which pushed the audience (about 50 people) back off the 'stage area' of this warehouse to accomodate about 30 musicians surrounding Moe! (sic) who stood on (the keyboard of) an upright piano and conducted. There were two or three guitar players, two bass players, two drummers and at least two percussionists, a theramin, a string section, a reed section, and brass section. He too had cue cards to communicate with, and everyone had a score which i think was basically a briefing for the musicians rather than a notation (i did get to look at it). There were several pages with musical notation, but the bulk of it seemed to be an explanation of the general flow of the piece (this was its third performance) and how to interpret the various instructions which would be given out. I don't know how many people have seen a group improv conducted in this manner. It certainly wasn't like what the Company shows sounded like, because there was no emphasis on personality (expept the conductor) and all emphasis on this kind of amoebic quality of how the music/sound moved around the room as Staiano spontaneously picked subgroups to play certain tones or rhythms. It began, after introductions of the group, with Staiano twinkling the ivories in the top register of the doomed instrument, center stage, becoming more and more frenzied and then lulled before he got back up, standing on the keyboard. The orchestra was then brought in section by section in a hand conducted swelling and ebbing roar. This evolved into a movement which was guided using pitch/octave cards with which Staiano could nudge the whole sound precisely in one direction or another. There was an extraordinary sense of concentration on the looks of the musicians, and atmosphere of raw energy that was barely being contained. At one point everyone in fact did 'let loose' and cacophony was brilliant and in a way terrifying. The next extended section involved using more cue cards with genre indicators ('cock rock' 'speed metal' 'classical' 'reggae' 'country' etc) and calling on sections or subgroups and later the whole orchestra to play in that style until otherwise told. This was broken off at some point (i may have the order of events wrong -- i was videotaping the whole time and not paying exclusive attention) when everyone (30-odd people!) whipped out a kind of strawlike ultrasonic dog whistle and blew it, the sound of which pierced through all the musical muck that had accumulated and made the audience 'laugh in pain' at the comic gesture whose extraordinary high pitched squeal seemed to last forever. At a certain stage about 45 minutes through the piece, Staiano motioned the musicians to walk through the audience continuing to play a kind of apocalyptic drone which he had set up over this strident rhythm from the percussion section. They finally rearranged themselves forming a kind of cordon around Staiano and the piano. He spraypainted "DEAD" on the face of it. Then put on some goggles, and took an axe and a sledgehammer that had been concealed inside the piano and proceeded to destroy it, as the assembled musicians all wailed and pounded in time to his blows. Music: yes. Spectacle: yes. Wit: yes. The musicians also all looked like they were having a great time. And everyone was invited to take a souvenir shard of piano home. A tree died to make the piano and the piano died to make the music. This was the spirit of Charles Ives at work here in Oakland. FYI Sleepytime Gorilla Museum is a band that Moe! is in as the percussionist, and they will be touring the country i think in June, so keep an eye out for them. They are a five piece band, kind of a Frith/Crimson/Gabriel (for the theatrical aspect) inflected band, for lack of a better description, which is fronted by Nils Frykdahl (Idiot Flesh/ Charming Hostess) and Carla Kihlstedt (Tin Hat Trio). konrad ^Z - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 10:53:56 -0700 From: Skip Heller Subject: Death of a Toy Piano ? Does anyone know of any ensembles that record exclusively on toy instruments? skip h np: Gigi Gryce -- Nica's Tempo (excellent quartet with Monk) - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 14:00:18 -0400 (EDT) From: konrad Subject: Re: Death of a Toy Piano ? Toychestra has recorded a CD and at least one 7". I did a search for you, here is their website. http://sfsound.org/acme/toychestra.html On Tue, 15 May 2001, Skip Heller wrote: > > Does anyone know of any ensembles that record exclusively on toy > instruments? > > skip h > > np: Gigi Gryce -- Nica's Tempo (excellent quartet with Monk) > > ^Z - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 13:01:15 -0500 From: Jay Mote Subject: RE: Death of a Toy Piano ? Skip, From NYC, Pianosaurus (sp.?). I saw them in '87 in Iowa City (at a pool hall). Outstanding and hilarious to boot!! See: http://www.rounder.com/rounder/catalog/bylabel/roun/9/9010/9010.html NP: Fearless Iranians From Hell - "Die For Allah" >===== Original Message From Skip Heller ===== >Does anyone know of any ensembles that record exclusively on toy >instruments? > >skip h > >np: Gigi Gryce -- Nica's Tempo (excellent quartet with Monk) > > >- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 21:34:29 +0200 From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?=" Subject: Re: Death of a Toy Piano ? You've also this French guy, Pierre Bastien, who builds his own Mecanium ensembles creating a sorts of "Musique Mecanique". Don't know if you could easily find his recordings but he has worked with Pascal Comelade, if that helps. Greetings, Efrén - -----Original Message----- From: Skip Heller To: konrad ; zorn-list@lists.xmission.com Date: lunes, 14 de mayo de 2001 19:53 Subject: Death of a Toy Piano ? > >Does anyone know of any ensembles that record exclusively on toy >instruments? > >skip h > >np: Gigi Gryce -- Nica's Tempo (excellent quartet with Monk) > > >- _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 15:48:29 EDT From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: toy music As far as music utilizing toy instruments, there's a rock band out there called Self. Fairly Prince-influenced in conception, albums are quite varied from song to song. Their newest album, Gizmodgery, happens to be recorded exclusively using toy instruments. Drums, Keyboards, Guitars, Basses, noisemakers, all of the toy variety. All originals, with the exception of What of Fool Believes by the Doobies, and its a really good version of that tune. I'd recommend for the pop-inclined among you. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 13:03:31 -0700 From: Jim Flannery Subject: Re: Death of a Toy Piano ? Skip Heller wrote: > > Does anyone know of any ensembles that record exclusively on toy > instruments? Aside from the others already mentioned, NYC in the early 80s: Y-Pants (lp on Neutral (7" on ???? (sorry, I'm at work))). - -- Jim Flannery np: Upsilon Acrux, _In the Acrux of the Upsilon King_ nr: nothing - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 16:57:24 -0500 From: Herb Levy Subject: Keith Tippett/Julie Tippetts? I've just been listening to the CD re-issue of Company: Epiphany on Incus and as I read over the booklet I was reminded of a question that I've always had and have never gotten an answer to: How come Keith Tippett & Julie Tippetts, husband & wife, have different last names? Their two names are spelled like this on almost every recording I've seen by them, as well as other sources for which it seems as if there would be personal input as to the correct spellings of their names. After a quick Sherlock search online, I came up with forty references to Julie Tippett and forty references to Julie Tippetts; forty for Keith Tippett & eleven for Keith Tippetts (but then Web sites are not exactly known for perfect spelling). Even on the page for Keith Tippett on Peter Sheffield's exemplary European Free Improvising site, Julie Tippetts name is spelled with a final "s" all but one of the times she's mentioned. Anyone out there have any insights on this odd minor point? Bests, Herb - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 18:41:01 EDT From: DKuper9200@aol.com Subject: Re: Death of a Toy Piano ? In a message dated 5/14/2001 1:53:22 PM, velaires@earthlink.net writes: << Does anyone know of any ensembles that record exclusively on toy instruments? There is a New York City based group - "Music for Homemade Instruments" - they have a few recordings, e.g. "The Pick of the Litter" and "Detritus." I obtained them directly from the ensemble. Their address is: 262 Bowery New York, NY 10012-3501 Is "homemade instruments" synonymous with "toy instruments?" I don't know, but maybe you would be interested. Regards, David K. - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V3 #425 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. 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