From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #429 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Wednesday, May 16 2001 Volume 03 : Number 429 In this issue: - ribot question Consolidated Queer 2 chocolate genius Re: Toy Instruments Re: ribot question Re: Prince....name that tune.... New Buckethead RE: Consolidated Queer 1 Correction re: Miles the Pimp Re: Consolidated Queer 1 david grubbs, ?s Re: Love, Madness, Mysticism dave ballou Re: ribot question Re: weird instruments Re: Weird Instruments NYTimes.com Article: Michael Dorf of Knitmedia, the Entrepreneur of the Musically Avant Review: Evan & Jah Wabble Knitting Factory article in today's New York Times ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 15:25:44 +1000 From: "Julian" Subject: ribot question Just curious, has Marc Ribot ever had a guitar/bass/drums trio? - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 01:54:25 -0400 From: "Jeton Ademaj" Subject: Consolidated Queer 2 Konrad: it's almost like u mean "u better have a good reason to piss people off" because it does seem you're raising the bar for discussion of historical figures. by your logic, this forum presented a perfect opportunity to seperate out the homophobia: Someone said something bout dolphymingus, it pissed steve off and when relating it he half explained and half winked at what were presumably (and then effectively) shared conclusions. again, i'da been happy to have read or participated in an exchange re: intense platonic relationships, but some people seemed a bit too pavlovian in their reflexive defense against the latest multiculti Other to crash the party. that may include you, since u feel u already have my "pc shit-starter" number...also, my queries of "why the hostility" were rhetorical, because the 'y' was obvious. SWM's burden. Skip: "E True hollywood etc" is a mere potshot that would take too much typing to deconstruct (ouch, that 'comp-lit' word!), but i'm curious if u'd be willing to name names re: 60's avant stars u say were frontin' Bill: your argument about ubiquity=invisibility is illogical, because whereas ubiquity CAN result in negligibility, it need not. joy, lust, boredom, pain, hunger, yearning---the ubiquity of any of these things has made them continual topics of Art, in variety and specifity enough so that one could never call them invisible. If however, u find it *personally* boring, or unintellectual or whatever to read homosexual yearning into a horn solo, that's fine. But again, you're couching that personal decision in the guise of Intellectual Rigor, and i ain't buying that. To a certain extant u and konrad seem to agree that there's not enough restraint used when offering these hypotheses, and that such extravagance feeds reactionism. almost like you're saying "don't go calling someone gay or even slightly gay w/o good proof or u'll rouse the wrath of those it makes nervous------> a position i understand. just be aware that such circumspection costs u less than others. Vincent: Thank you for your long strings of very telling adjectives, but u might consider forwarding a copy to the Wall St. Journal Arts & Leisure section Dave Smey: that's quite a laundry list u've got there, the whole array of Other has invaded your space with it's incessant cries of "you don't like me, why don't u like me, Straight White Man?!?". how would u relate your sentiments to particular examples, like dolphymingus, pedozorn, milespimp, or afroauralrape? and, uh, thanks for the conscientious advice on use of the word 'fag'. in the few months i've been reading posts i can't recall you or anyone advising the poster 'fagmusic' of your objections (i recall liking his tastes...), so i think i'll just take it under advisement. i do hope u'll be so forward with those who use fag, nigger, etc. in an UNIRONIC, 'straightforward' sense... whew! peace _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 15:59:43 +1000 From: "Julian" Subject: chocolate genius Hi, I saw the Chocolate Genius set on Sessions At West 54th last night. I'm just curious who the musicians were - I remember you guys discussing it about a year or two ago when it was on in the US, so someone out there probably remembers... Obviously I recognised Marc Ribot, I'm guessing the bass player was Oren Bloedow (I've only seen a few pictures of him, so I'm not sure), and the cellist Jane Scarpantoni (although she was rarely seen or heard). But the keyboardist and the drummer? The keyboardist looked a bit like Jamie Saft but again I don't know... As you can see I can pretty much guess who they all are, but would prefer to know for sure if possible... thanks, Julian. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 02:23:09 EDT From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Toy Instruments Albert Marcoeur's early albums featured toy instrumentation--not exclusively, mind you, but enough to add a distinctness to the sound...as if he needed it in the first place... - -- =dg= - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 23:50:20 -0700 From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: ribot question At 3:25 PM 5/16/01, Julian wrote: >Just curious, has Marc Ribot ever had a guitar/bass/drums trio? > Some years ago I saw him in a trio with the (then) drummer from the Rollins band and the bassist that later played in Soul Coughing. Great show! I don't believe that lineup ever recorded, though. ____________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org New & Improv Media http://www.newandimprov.com Now available: Admiral Twinkle Devil: Wabi Dub ____________________________________________ - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 02:53:03 EDT From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Prince....name that tune.... In a message dated 5/15/01 5:47:18 PM, d_dvb@hotmail.com writes: << np: AMM - Laminal disc 2 (much better than the performance I saw in Oakland a few weeks back) >> was this the show that was in someone's living room? what didn't you like about it? just curious... Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 09:33:59 +0200 (MET DST) From: stephen.fruitman@idehist.umu.se (Stephen Fruitman) Subject: New Buckethead _Thanatopsis_ is a collaboration with Travis Dickerson (keyboards, production, shares the writing credits on all ten numbers) and drummer Ramy Antoun. An excellent, all-out jam with plenty of musicality rather than sheer headbanging. The fingers fly, the drummer is intelligent, and the keyboardist supplies plenty of fun interplay for Buckethead. Recommended. Visit the site - . All the best, Stephen Stephen Fruitman Dept of Historical Studies Ume=E5 University SE-901 87 Ume=E5 Sweden - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 03:36:08 -0400 From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: Consolidated Queer 1 Jeton: You're continuing to read WAY too much into my humble and inelegant thought processes than is actually there. Perhaps this makes me as potentially dangerous as those I lambasted. You're also ascribing far more inner depth to use of a stupid Seinfeld quip than it deserves, but that's apparently your canard and not one I share. But at this point, you are assigning motives to my thinking that simply are not there, using lines like 'multiculturalism run amok,' 'straight white man's burden,' and other cutely oppressed aphorisms intended to push my buttons just as hard as you have indicated I've unwittingly pushed yours with the Seinfeld bon mot. You are saying things about my character that are untrue, particularly in regards to homophobia, regarding which you have absolutely no logical reason to speculate. (And the specific reasons it *particularly* pisses me off are frankly none of your damn business.) You don't know me, and you seem to have misunderstood what I was trying to say, whether through the poverty of my language or reasons of your own about which I feuse to speculate. You've neatly formulated your own theory of which you are now apprising others, many of whom also do not know me and will take your "story" as being as likely as my own. And in the process, you're kind of proving my actual original assertion, which had much more to do with writers/scholars/academics/people/who-the-fuck-ever making groundless speculations about a topic, and then treating those pronouncements with an authority and gravity that indicates an unwillingness to brook the notion of being mistaken - which is precisely what you seem to be doing to me. But you're already unpersuaded, so why should I be continuing to waste my time on this? Well, mainly because I still give a fuck about such things as fairness and accuracy in media. And I bet that Sue Mingus and whatever survivors Dolphy might still have would be standing right there with me on that count. Buh-bye, SS - -----Original Message----- From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Jeton Ademaj Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 1:10 AM To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com Subject: Consolidated Queer 1 Steve: I'm sorry u felt the need to defend yourself, because it wasn't my intent to goad u And i'm unpersuaded. i do believe the *particular* things u said to defend yourself were largely in line with the "multiculturalism run amok" canard i included to begin with, and i think most responses to this have been in that vein. When Bill leapfrogged my initial question ("what the fuck is so ridiculous") by conceding personal homophobia as a factor that intensified his winking concurrence with your point, it was polite but banal. i knew that already. When u 1st mentioned the dolphymingus theory u set it up with "described, in all seriousness, as" it's already clear u utterly disagree, but it was the Seinfeld reference which irked. it seemed a way of inoculating yourself against accusation. What i'd actually hoped for was a focused argumentative rebuttal ("obviously Mingus and Dolphy shared a contentious relationship as evinced by yadadada but blahblah and foofoofoo suggest that it was nonsexual, and yet all that the 'scholar' had to show was zibzibzib..."). instead u joined the growing chorus singing the straight white man's burden, while complaining about a lack of credible argument. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 03:12:29 -0400 From: "Steve Smith" Subject: Correction re: Miles the Pimp For the record, my girlfriend reminded me tonight that Robin D. G. Kelley, writer of the "Pimp Miles" piece in the Sunday New York Times, is in fact a man. I felt the need to mention this primarily because I'd stated that it was refreshing to see the Times allow two women to write about jazz in the first place, whether it was bad writing and thinking or not. Ironically, I was also reminded that I'd actually met Robin at the very same conference where I heard that Mingus/Dolphy homosexuality theory presented. Speaking of, to the poster who wondered about whether that was in reference to the entire ouervre or to a single instance, I think it was both, but most likely the famous vocalized duet on "What Love" - IIRC - was cited as a prime example. Anyhow, that idea was not at the heart of the paper being presented - it was actually, as I recall, a fairly bizarre tangent that actually grabbed my attention for that reason alone. Thought I'd just offer up the correction re: Kelley, and in the process admit that it made me think about the "pimp" aspect a little differently now that I know a man wrote the piece than I had when I'd thought it was by a woman. But don't ask me to explain just why that is - I've gotta mull that over a while longer. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Foss: Piano Concerto No. 2 (Harmonia Mundi) ... irked at missing the entire mainsine fest due to demands of work, and just about to get out of town for a week so likely this is the last you'll hear of me till then... - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 00:54:04 -0700 From: Jim Flannery Subject: Re: Consolidated Queer 1 Steve Smith wrote: >=20 > You don't know me Well, isn't the essence of the whole discussion the right of the hermenau= t to make any damn assumptions about other people's ontology they damn well li= ke, given that the hermenaut's cogito trumps the other's sum? (Given that the= only function of other breathing, human, complex beings is to be reduced to a hermeneutic "gotcha"?) Speaking as a celibate, this whole "gender is everywhere" discussion oppr= esses me. - --=20 - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - - Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.co= m "It's no bed of roses, let me tell you, being a mutant." -- Warren Dearde= n np: Hans Zender, _H=F6lderlin Lesen I-III_ nr: Thomas Sullivan, _The Martyring_ - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 02:08:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Handley Subject: david grubbs, ?s Hello all, I've not at all kept up with David Grubbs after the demise of Gastr del Sol. Could anyone describe his work, or some works, and/or recommend them? Obliged as always, - -----s, looking for the sublimated homosexual longing in a balogna sandwich, and finding it. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 12:58:06 +0200 From: Rob Allaert Subject: Re: Love, Madness, Mysticism what about the artwork ? On woensdag, mei 16, 2001, at 04:34 , Orangejazz@aol.com wrote: > This album is very different mood-wise from his other written works. greetings, Rob @ risk np: nada - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 04:08:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Hywel Davies Subject: dave ballou does anyone have info. on the cds released by Dave Ballou? there are three listed at cdnow, but no info provided... thanks, hywel davies __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 07:59:53 -0400 From: Rich Williams Subject: Re: ribot question >Just curious, has Marc Ribot ever had a guitar/bass/drums trio? There was one with Sim Cain and Jamaaladeen Tacuma a few years back - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 08:25:24 -0400 From: Glenn_Lea@avid.com Subject: Re: weird instruments "Caleb T. Deupree" wrote: ...Hopkin published two compilations, the one already mentioned and another whose name is escaping me. ... That would be "Orbitones, Spoon Harps & Bellowphones", also on Ellipsis Arts. This one has a Tom Waits track. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 08:47:58 -0400 From: Perfect Sound Forever Subject: Re: Weird Instruments Sad to say, Experimental Musical Instruments is no longer publishing their magazine. It is not out of business though. See http://www.windworld.com/emi/ Best, Jason - -- Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 08:57:45 -0400 (EDT) From: bg60009@binghamton.edu Subject: NYTimes.com Article: Michael Dorf of Knitmedia, the Entrepreneur of the Musically Avant This article from NYTimes.com has been sent to you by bg60009@binghamton.edu. /-------------------- advertisement -----------------------\ Looking for better IT solutions? Toshiba is uniting digital, mobile and network innovations in a bold new vision of Information Technology for today and tomorrow. Take a closer look at life in the new Digital Age. And imagine how good IT can be. Visit Toshiba.com for more details. http://www.nytimes.com/ads/toshiba/index.html \----------------------------------------------------------/ Michael Dorf of Knitmedia, the Entrepreneur of the Musically Avant By BEN RATLIFF For most of his adult life, Michael Dorf has ridden the impresario roller coaster of outsiderish, avant-garde music. And he has accomplished plenty. http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/16/arts/16DORF.html?ex=991017865&ei=1&en=0920c3e63e3578c2 /-----------------------------------------------------------------\ Visit NYTimes.com for complete access to the most authoritative news coverage on the Web, updated throughout the day. Become a member today! It's free! http://www.nytimes.com?eta \-----------------------------------------------------------------/ HOW TO ADVERTISE - --------------------------------- For information on advertising in e-mail newsletters or other creative advertising opportunities with The New York Times on the Web, please contact Alyson Racer at alyson@nytimes.com or visit our online media kit at http://www.nytimes.com/adinfo For general information about NYTimes.com, write to help@nytimes.com. Copyright 2001 The New York Times Company - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 10:18:04 EDT From: Reaboi@aol.com Subject: Review: Evan & Jah Wabble the first 15 minutes or so of last night's Jah Wabble/Evan Parker gig was great. Evan was on fire, kind-of doing his shtick (a shtick I happen to love) and livening-up the drum & bass groove. it was pretty hypnotic and intense. after that, Jah Wabble's sound guy, probably the worst I've ever heard, took the controls and went haywire. some folks were watching him move the controls up and down with the groove, get insane feedback, then throw his headphones down, as if blaming them for not being able to do sound. rumor has it the Jah Wabble gig with Laswell had *really* bad sound. glad I missed it. Following that cool 15 or so minutes, two horn players got on stage (I guess they're with Jah Wabble), and a few minutes into it I fel asleep in the first row (sorry Evan). he was playing great, but I guess it wasn't enough to tune everything else out, probably because the stupid sound guy had such a huge reverb/delay on Evan the whole time that... argh.. I don't wanna think about it. there were quite a few people around that, like me, had either fallen asleep and walked out or just walked out. I can't imagine the nightmare if I find that it's the same sound guy doing the next 2 nights of Evan at the Knit (no chance, because he works for J-W, but it's fun imagining the nightmare nonetheless). Cheers, Dave - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 10:40:13 -0400 From: "Steve Smith" Subject: Knitting Factory article in today's New York Times Free to all users, with a one-time registration: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/16/arts/16DORF.html Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V3 #429 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. 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