From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #444 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Thursday, May 24 2001 Volume 03 : Number 444 In this issue: - great arrangers in big band jazz Re: great arrangers in big band jazz Re: great arrangers ugh Jazz with strings (Re: great arrangers...) Avant big bands (was: Arrangers and Victo 2001) RE: Houle/Delbecq Re: great arrangers Re: great arrangers Re: great arrangers Re: Jazz with strings (Re: great arrangers...) Re: Forced Exposure Re: Victo 2001 Re: Jazz with strings (Re: great arrangers...) Tippett/Tippetts/Driscoll Re: Forced Exposure DC Vision Festival Re: Victo 2001 Re: Victo 2001 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 16:01:51 EDT From: Reaboi@aol.com Subject: great arrangers in big band jazz some of my favorite arrangers, all doing really great 'avant-garde' stuff within big band jazz of the 30s-60s, especially with vocalists. Pete Rugolo : listen to June Christy's SOMETHING COOL from '55. that shit fucks your mind. five stars. Paul Jordan : with Artie Shaw's orchestra, 1938 or thereabouts. the album is EVENSONG on Hep. wow! Ralph Burns : FREE FORMS (1950?) is on a really amazing 2CD called LEE KONITZ MEETS JIMMY GIUFFRE (verve). Eddie Sauter : arranger for Mildred Bailey/Red Norvo orchestra in the 1930s, as well as Benny Goodman. try BENNY GOODMAN PLAYS EDDIE SAUTER ARRANGEMENTS (a more representative title I've seldon heard!). also amazing is FOCUS by Stan Getz. and, of course, Ellington and Strayhorn! Good Luck. Cheers, Dave - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 13:26:23 -0700 From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: great arrangers in big band jazz > Paul Jordan : with Artie Shaw's orchestra, 1938 or thereabouts. the album is > EVENSONG on Hep. wow! > > Ralph Burns : FREE FORMS (1950?) is on a really amazing 2CD called LEE KONITZ > MEETS JIMMY GIUFFRE (verve). > > Eddie Sauter : arranger for Mildred Bailey/Red Norvo orchestra in the 1930s, > as well as Benny Goodman. try BENNY GOODMAN PLAYS EDDIE SAUTER ARRANGEMENTS (a > more representative title I've seldon heard!). also amazing is FOCUS by Stan > Getz. > > and, of course, Ellington and Strayhorn! > > Good Luck. > > Cheers, > Dave > > - > PAUL JORDAN! I always wondered who did that chart. Ralth's charts for Woody Herman, espec "Early utmn" (the orig with Getz) are amazing. For Sauter, he also did a filmscore with Getz as the featured soloist, MICKEY ONE, that is just fanastic. skip h - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 16:36:25 EDT From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: Re: great arrangers Andre Popp and his orchestra: Delerium in Hi-Fi. CRAZY longy arrangements of 'normal' tunes, all sorts of bizarre studio effects, and all this in 1957, I believe! - -Matt Mitchell - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 16:37:17 EDT From: Nudeants@aol.com Subject: ugh Sorry, 'longy' is supposed to be LOUNGY. though longy is a neat, weird sounding fake word. - -matt mitchell - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 13:46:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Handley Subject: Jazz with strings (Re: great arrangers...) - --- Skip Heller wrote: > > Eddie Sauter : ...also amazing is FOCUS by Stan > > Getz. I really loved Sauter's appropriation of Bartok as a vehicle for Getz to blow and blow; that's a terrific record, maybe the first and only one I've heard where arrangements for large string ensembles plus improvising soloists don't sound terrible. (I liked some of Gunter Schuller's and Joe Lovano's RUSH HOUR, I suppose.) Can anyone recommend good recordings along these lines? (Not, I might add, simply jazz/improv records "with strings" involved, but the use of arrangements for chamber orchestras or large groups of strings.) - -----s P.S. I've heard that Charlie Parker was proudest of his recordings "with strings", but when I heard them a few years ago, I remember thinking they were wretched. (Not him...them.) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 16:54:48 EDT From: DvdBelkin@aol.com Subject: Avant big bands (was: Arrangers and Victo 2001) The "great arrangers" thread and Brian's inclusion of Barry Guy's New Orchestra on his Victo 02 wish list got me to thinking... We've currently got the New Orchestra, and the NOW Orchestra, and ICP, and Satako Fuji's big band(s), and William Parker's Little Huey, and Breuker's Kollektief, and sometimes David Murray's big band, and I guess the Sun Ra Arkestra, and periodically Charlie Haden's Liberation Music Orchestra, and Vinnie Golia's Large Ensemble, and the Italian Instabile Orchestra and (going back a bit) the LJCO and the Berlin Contemporary Orchestra, and... Who else? And how would you rank 'em, either against each other or against the great big bands of the past? and how 'bout a fest that they ALL come to? ;-) Me, I'm especially partial to ICP and NOW. David rl: Maurice Horsthuis, Amsterdam Drama --> Bradshaw Pack, Alogos - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 16:01:30 -0500 From: "John Thomas" Subject: RE: Houle/Delbecq > From: James Hale > Subject: Re: Another Montreal Question > > I would add to Steve's recommendation, either of the two > shows featuring > Francois Houle and Benoit Delbecq. Saw them doing duets in > Ottawa a few years > ago and they were stunning. > Their CD release on Songlines _Nancali_ is quite beautiful as well. A favorite of mine. I'm not a big fan of Houle but here he is quite good and works very well with Delbecq. This record had me chasing other things by Delbecq on obscure labels but I've found after 2 or so more I still like _Nancali_ best. John - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 17:13:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: great arrangers Gil Evans Gigi Gryce Benny Golson Billy Strayhorn Don Redman Budd Johnson Thad Jones Bob Brookmeyer Gerry Mulligan Jimmy Giuffre Misha Mengelberg Jelly Roll Morton Spud Murphy George Russell Sy Johnson Sy Oliver Gerald Wilson Sun Ra Charles Mingus Hal Overton that should be a start Ken Waxman - --- richard ladew wrote: > Does anyone have suggestions for a radio show Im > doing next week on great arrangers? > > So far I have quite a limited list of the following > whom I have been featuring throughout the month and > for the last show I want to play nothing but great > arrangers and expand my horizons a bit: > > Morricone > Esquivel > Brian Wilson > Roland Kirk > > P.s. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! > I suppose the above are listener friendly and > accesible although thats not necessarily what I want > to stick to - Im open to anything > > > Rich Ladew > _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 17:15:41 EDT From: RogerHParry@cs.com Subject: Re: great arrangers In a message dated 24/05/01 19:20:08 GMT Daylight Time, rladew@mediaone.net writes: << Does anyone have suggestions for a radio show Im doing next week on great arrangers? >> MISHA MENGELBERG best regards Rog - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 17:18:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: great arrangers The arranger of the Monk sessioin was Hal Overton and when Mingus didn't arrange his own stuff he got Sy Johnson and (at least one time) Jimmy Knepper to help. I've sent my own list of suggestions as well. ken waxman - --- Maurice Rickard wrote: > > Monk's Town Hall concert (on Riverside) > Mingus. The _Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus_ > disc is a fave of mine. > _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 17:23:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: Jazz with strings (Re: great arrangers...) Scott: Remember the context. Early 1950s. Bird was proud of th e strinbg sessions for the same reason that Prez wanted to do a similar date. For a Black jazzman strings and orchestral arrangements signalled "class" not secpond class citizenship, racism and drug addiction. Thus Charlie Parker, who was no Bohemian, would rank highly anything that would present him as a valued Establishment member. Ken Waxman - --- Scott Handley wrote: > P.S. I've heard that Charlie Parker was proudest of > his recordings "with strings", but when I heard them > a few years ago, I remember thinking they were > wretched. > (Not him...them.) _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 17:28:03 -0400 From: Rick Lopez Subject: Re: Forced Exposure on 01.05.24 1:04 PM, Samerivertwice@aol.com at Samerivertwice@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 5/24/01 12:51:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Knutboy@aol.com > writes: > >> Nope. They Rock. >> > > NEVER had a problem with FE. They've always been prompt and courteous. I've > ordered with them six or seven times. Me too! Me too! And I love their weekly lists. RL - ---------- [ All of the below and much more at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k ] Sessionographies : CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE. Discographies : COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL; WORKMAN. Also : --Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN; HARD BOIL; ETC., WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? : LUCILLE / A Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 17:41:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: Victo 2001 Thanks Brian: Hey if Brain's wish list came true I *might* be tempted to go to FIMAV again too. Thing is, except for Sclavis and Derome, we seem to have had performances by the Best of Victo here in Toronto just before the festival itself. I missed Houle, but 4 Walls did a pretty interesting set, though a little loud in the electric bass-drums department. Still all of the 4 Wallians seemed to be in great form, especially Minton and Weston. John Butcher showed up the next night to work with local improvisers Kurt Newman (guitar) and Mike Gennaro (drums). Very subtle,intense and exciting stuff. However --and here's where I differ with Brain-- then Poire_Z set up their equipment on the highest reaches of the church in which the performance took place. All the lights were dimmed except for those over the Z equipment and the four droned on for the next 60 minutes or so. I gave it what attention I could, but after a while I slumped down into my seat and started resting on my jacket. Finally I stretched out in a pew further back and thought I was contemplating and listening to the sounds. People tell me that I drifted off, though, and my snores made a nice counterpoint to the Z music. in the past -- Konk Pack to cite one example -- this show was the closest thing to Nytol I've experienced. But what do I know? I'm just some free jazz fan, anyways. (However my friend who had an electroacoustic radio show for 12 years wasn't that impressed either). Maybe it was an off night for PZ, or maybe the emperor doesn't always have clothes. Ken Waxman - --- Brian Olewnick wrote: My suggestions for next year would include: AMM (and various configurations thereof) Barry Guy's New Orchestra MIMEO Braxton (again in various configs including the Comp 247 trio) Gustafsson's Nonet Most of Jon's Erstwhile folk _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 14:57:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Handley Subject: Re: Jazz with strings (Re: great arrangers...) - --- Ken Waxman wrote: > Remember the context. Early 1950s. Bird was proud of > th e strinbg sessions for the same reason that Prez > wanted to do a similar date...Thus Charlie Parker, who was no Bohemian, would rank > highly anything that would present him as a valued > Establishment member. Thanks for the perspective; it's also occurred to me that Bird might _not_ have liked session at all, but told folks that when asked about which achievements he was most proud, simply as a matter of sarcasm (the same way he would tell people he loved Guy Lombardo, then respond to incredulous friends/colleagues that it would be fruitless to argue with someone who already liked Guy Lombardo, so why not just save himself some time). Of course, Bird might very well have heard things in Lombardo and the string arrangements on his own recordings....who am I to argue? Jim O'Rourke apparently adores the Spice Girls. I'm interested in what they hear. Your own interpretation is interesting too, but also depressing. - ----s __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 19:10:47 -0400 From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Tippett/Tippetts/Driscoll For those who had been losing sleep over the whys and wherefores of her name, the subject actually came up while I was at Victo and no less an authority than Stuart Broomer avowed that he had once asked that very question and the answer is: When she performs/records with Keith, she uses "Tippett". When performing/recording on her own, it's "Tippetts". So it's purely of her own devise. Brian Olewnick NP: Harry Miller/Radu Malfatti - Bracknell Breakdown - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 20:27:19 -0500 From: Craig Rath Subject: Re: Forced Exposure At 05:15 AM 5/24/01 -0700, you wrote: >Has anyone experienced any difficulty ordering from >FE??? I've had mixed results. I've ordered a lot from them and for the most part they have been good, it's just the occasional order that either gets ignored completely or comes back saying they no longer have the items in question in stock. I think I ordered the Haino boxed set from them 3 times before I actually received it. But they do have one of the best selections around. I just wish I had been able to get the first Mandible Chatter CD they had on their site when I ordered it (got a message back about a month later that it was no longer available). Can't find it anywhere else. Just my experiences. Craig M. Rath H: fripp@mn.mediaone.net W: rathc@questarweb.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 19:49:45 -0500 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: DC Vision Festival For those of you not making the pilgrimage to NYC this weekend, there's a Vision Festival in DC also: Joseph Jarman, Billy Bang, William Parker, Gray Code, and Vattel Cherry are among the participants. Here's the blurbage: Arts for Art present The First Annual 3Dc Vision Festival 27-29 May 2001 Gallery 505 | 505 7th Street NW | Washington, DC * _ * _ * _ * _ * _ * _ * _ * Sunday, May 27th at 7:00pm Solo: Vattel Cherry (bassist extradonaire from Baltimore)* unconfirmed Duo: Joseph Jarman (saxophonist/reedist of the Art Ensemble of Chicago) Sabu Toyozumi (legendary Japanese percussionist) Monday, May 28 at 6:00pm Trio: Graycode (experimental, musique concrete from DC) Trio: Billy Bang (acclaimed jazz violinist from NYC) Joe Fonda (bass improviser from NYC) Abbey Rader (percussion master from NYC/Florida) Tuesday, May 29th at 8:00 pm Solo: Thomas Stanley (creative spoken word from DC) Duo: Hamid Drake (greatest living drum improviser from Chicago) William Parker (greatest living bass improviser from NYC) * _ * _ * _ * _ * _ * _ * _ * Advance tickets are $10 a night. Tickets can be purchased after May 1st, at several DC locations: Olsson's Books and Records in Dupont Circle Orpheus Records on Wilson Blvd. in Arlington Tickets will be $15 at the door. FOR MORE INFORMATION, SEE THE COMPLETE LISTING AT OUR WEBSITE www.geocities.com/eyelounge/DC - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 22:43:46 -0400 From: Mathieu Belanger Subject: Re: Victo 2001 Hello, >Shalabi Effect - A Montreal kinda psychedelic trance band which was ok >for 10 or 15 minutes, but went on for about 75. One common problem here >is that many of the groups feel obliged to present "projects" to fill up >the 75-90 minutes they're allotted despite only having 15-20 minutes of >good material. As though they're reluctant to just play. I had the opportunity to discuss with Alexandre St-Onge and Will Eizlini and they told me they were just having fun and this is basically why they played "so long". When they toured last December, they apparently played for 60 minutes. I can't confirm this though as they didn't play in Montreal or somewhere close enough for me to go. >Otomo Yoshihide/Cathode (...) For the second of three pieces, Otomo took >out his guitar and the performed (I think I'm correct on this) a piece by >Taku Sugimoto that was just lovely. Yes, the second piece was a Taku Sugimoto composition. Michel Levasseur never said the title of it though. For those who care, the first piece was called "Modulation" (or "Modulations" as I said yesterday) and the third one "Feedback". This last one was very good and will be recorded soon according to what Michel Levasseur said in his intro. >(the Bar Kokhba show was their first ever sell-out in the big hockey >arena), I could definitely be wrong here so please correct me if so, but I was told that the concert godspeed you black emperor! played in 1999 was sold-out. They were playing at the Colisee des Bois-Francs as far as I remember. Tschuss, Mathieu - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 23:06:29 -0400 From: Mike Chamberlain Subject: Re: Victo 2001 on 5/24/01 10:43 PM, Mathieu Belanger at mathieu.belanger@UMontreal.CA wrote: > > I could definitely be wrong here so please correct me if so, but I was told > that the concert godspeed you black emperor! played in 1999 was sold-out. > They were playing at the Colisee des Bois-Francs as far as I remember. > IIRC--and I probably don't--I think it was on Sunday night before the Kim Gordon fiasco that Levasseur said that Bar Kokhba was their first-ever sold out show, meaning at the Colisee, I presume. He also said the same thing during the closing press conference. The Frith/Zorn/Lombardo/Laswell show was also a virtual sellout--pun only half-intended. There was room for more in the Colisee for Bar Kokhba, but the organizers stopped selling tix because they didn't want an overly-crowded hall. As for the length of the Shalabi Effect show, one of the reasons they kept on so long was that they were using the performance as an opportunity to record with super high fidelity sound, or so Anthony Seck told me. I think they also wanted to find out how to get a sled and snowmobile across a crack in the ice. :-) - --Mike - -- - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V3 #444 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. 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