From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #462 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Monday, June 11 2001 Volume 03 : Number 462 In this issue: - Re: David Toop RAP ATTACK question Sonic Youth and Stereolab RE: Sonic Youth and Stereolab Re: Wyatt (was Re: Radiohead) Re: Sonic Youth and Stereolab Re: Vision Fest in the NY Times Odp: Delany (no zorn) Re: stereolab/s.y. (was: radiohead) Mojo (Was RE: David Toop RAP ATTACK question) Re: Wyatt (was Re: Radiohead) Re: Radiohead Re: Delany (no zorn) delaney, tool, radiohead, and zorn (surprise!) Re: Radiohead Re: Radiohead RE: Radiohead Re: Sonic Youth and Stereolab Butcher In Ventura CA RE: Radiohead Re: Sonic Youth and Stereolab Re: Wyatt (was Re: Radiohead) Still No Zorn ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:09:14 EDT From: Knutboy@aol.com Subject: Re: David Toop RAP ATTACK question - --part1_10e.1088e36.28567f6a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's one book, and updated in the third edition. He also wrote the booklet for Tommy Boy's Greatest Beats which is also really interesting. - --part1_10e.1088e36.28567f6a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's one book, and updated in the third edition. He also wrote the booklet
for Tommy Boy's Greatest Beats which is also really interesting. - --part1_10e.1088e36.28567f6a_boundary-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:18:00 -0700 From: "Chris Selvig" Subject: Sonic Youth and Stereolab I recommend "Bad Moon Rising" for sheer alien guitar tonality, and either "EVOL" or "Sister" for a more rockist evolution. "Daydream Nation" is pretty good w/ some fine extended song structures, but I think it's overlong. As for Stereolab, I don't think they're bad, but I have a hard time seeing what the big deal is. - -selvig _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:25:18 -0700 From: "Benito Vergara" Subject: RE: Sonic Youth and Stereolab > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Gadney > Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 12:33 PM > >before we leave the alternative/electronica thread, can somebody > suggest a > >good sonic youth album and stereolab album to introduce myself to them > >with? > > Stereolab: No!, but for Sonic Youth try "NYC Flowers & Ghosts" by far the > best they have ever done, and a real masterpiece (not at least thanks to > O'Rourke's *incredible* production) O'Rourke co-produced Stereolab's "Cobra And Phases Group Play Voltage In The Milky Night ," which is the most Zornlisty of their albums. "Dots and Loops" is a great album, but a cheap intro to Stereolab (and one that seems to sound like the various musical phases of their career) is the "First of the Microbe Hunters" ep. Later, Ben np: love, "forever changes" http://members.tripod.com/~tamad2/ ICQ: 12832406 - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 22:22:11 +0200 From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?=" Subject: Re: Wyatt (was Re: Radiohead) >What do you think is Wyatt's best (solo) work? I have "Mid Eighties" >"Dondestan" (my fave of the three) and "Rock Bottom." I'm wondering if >there's anything fantastic that i'm missing. Rock Bottom is obviously one of Wyatt's essentials. After recommendation on this list (thanks again), I could strongly recommend "Ruth is Stranger than Richard" and "Schleep". Efrén _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 22:28:25 +0200 From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?=" Subject: Re: Sonic Youth and Stereolab before we leave the alternative/electronica thread, can somebody suggest a >>good sonic youth album and stereolab album to introduce myself to them with? you can try anything by Sonic Youth. Everything is just amazing. IMHO, one of the best rock groups ever (in fact, my fav). Some good albums to begin with: "NYC Ghosts& Flowers", "Experimental Jet Set Trash and No Star", "Dirty", "Sister", "Washing Machine", ... buy them all!! Best, Efrén _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:45:36 -0400 From: pequet@altern.org Subject: Re: Vision Fest in the NY Times Jon, At 11:05 11/06/01 -0400, JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: >huh. the statement Jason made which Mr. Parry was commenting on was: > ><think of interesting, thought-provoking things to say is a demanding task.>> > >how the hell is that elitist? it's not even really an opinion, it's pretty >much a fact. In fact, whether "aesthetical enjoyment" is part of the professional listener / critic's job, is questionable. The professional listener / critic might be expected to write intelligently about things that he may, or may not, like. What he likes or dislikes is a matter of preferences, or opinions, and is irrelevant. Also, at another level: whether or not "aesthetical enjoyment" is part of the professional critic's job may be a matter of preferences, or opinions, on what one considers the function of musical criticism. But, for the sake of clarification, I am certainly not saying that "to enjoy" and "to like" are synonymous, and I am certainly not saying that Jason did either... Now, to answer your post, I never referred to Jason's message specifically, but to Roger Parry's short messages, as I received them over the past few months i.e. with a smile when he reminds us that a biographer's or a musician's performance should perhaps not be measured by the audience's expectations - otherwise known as "wishful thinking" in some benign cases, or "marketing" in more severe ones (an example of which is to be found in this weekend's NY Times article: What New York Deserves in a Jazz Festival, visible at http://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/10/arts/10RATL.html) Benjamin - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 22:56:27 +0200 From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Delany (no zorn) > << NR: Samuel Delany, DHALGREN >> > > Wasn't this slammed by critics? I'd be interested in what you think of it. > ~eriedell I didi not read dhalgren. I did read two short novels by him: 'empire star' and 'enstein intesection'. Bith were very good, especially the former, which includes the best example of late Wittgenstein's theory of meaning in practice (the ways of explaining the word 'plex' - if i remember the translator's comments correctly, as I read the book in polish) . very funny. the other one was also quite impressive. I tried to read recently some book with babel in title, but did not finish it. I did not like it, but I had a french copy of it, and i cannot read english books in french anymore. Marcin Gokieli marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:13:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Whit Schonbein Subject: Re: stereolab/s.y. (was: radiohead) PaanKu@aol.com asks: "before we leave the alternative/electronica thread, can somebody suggest a good sonic youth album and stereolab album to introduce myself to them with?" For the s.y., i prefer 'daydream nation', then 'evol', then 'sister', then that one with the hamster on it...it's pink...it's sort of new...it has a song called 'hits of sunshine' on it...the title is escaping me. for stereolab, 'dots and loops' is what turned me onto them. also, i enjoyed their live show from a year or so back. cheers, whit np - library noises - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 14:33:18 -0700 From: "Benito Vergara" Subject: Mojo (Was RE: David Toop RAP ATTACK question) > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Scott Handley > Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 10:23 AM > NR: MOJO Magazine (does > anyone else kind of like this? I guess this might be > a guilty pleasure, but as pop/rock rags go, it's so > much better than any American glossy I've read...that > doesn't say much, I suppose; I was reminded of this > magazine, as the current issue features Radiohead as > cover material) I decided to subscribe to Mojo after those excellent series of articles on the Smiths and the Pixies recently; since then a book excerpt on "Strange Fruit" and an article on the making of Nirvana's "In Utero" have been well worth the price of subscription. It's a lot more literate than the puff pieces about boy bands and starlets that Rolling Stone and Spin keep cranking out, and a lot less highbrow (and furrowed-brow) than the Wire, for instance. (Mojo's album reviews seem pretty iffy, though.) Later, Ben http://members.tripod.com/~tamad2/ ICQ: 12832406 - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:06:53 EDT From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Wyatt (was Re: Radiohead) In a message dated Mon, 11 Jun 2001 4:11:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, konrad writes: << On Mon, 11 Jun 2001, Tosh wrote: > instrument in the band. In many ways they remind me of Robert Wyatt. And > saying that I like Wyatt much more than Radiohead. > What do you think is Wyatt's best (solo) work? I have "Mid Eighties" "Dondestan" (my fave of the three) and "Rock Bottom." I'm wondering if there's anything fantastic that i'm missing. >> _Ruth Is Stranger Than Richard_ and _Schleep_ are absolutely Wyatt must-haves, IMO. - -- =dg= - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:57:40 EDT From: Eriedell@aol.com Subject: Re: Radiohead In a message dated 6/11/01 10:02:42 AM, marks@foliage.com writes: << i still don't see how people can deem them the best rock band in the world. to me, o.k. computer comes across as low-rent king crimson. >> The mass appeal of Radiohead is Thom York's voice. I love Kc, but belew is rarely as personal as York. That and every now and then Radiohead has the ability to write some really amazing lyrics. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:29:49 -0400 From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: Delany (no zorn) Eriedell@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 6/11/01 2:13:11 PM, thesubtlebody@yahoo.com writes: > > << NR: Samuel Delany, DHALGREN >> Hey, I happen to be re-reading this right now! I read the original back when it first appeared, around 1975, and I remmeber being both fascinated and confused by it. I've since read a decent amount of his stuff (anyone read "Mad Man"? Zorn CD art pales in comparison!) and it's interesting how much "Delany" there is in "Dhalgren" that I didn't pick up the first time. I'm only about a third of the way through its 800 or so pages, but my impression is again of a fascinating world created, though th actions have become a bit banal and everyday. But we'll see. Brian Olewnick NP: Bengt Berger - Bitter Funeral Beer (Finally issued on disc by Euro-ECM!) - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:49:03 -0500 From: "Brummer, Charlie" Subject: delaney, tool, radiohead, and zorn (surprise!) i read "dahlgren" 15-20 years ago....it was intriguing, enigmatic, and at 800 pages, far too long. i suppose there are fans of it's complexity and obfuscatory plot (or non-plot), and it IS interesting in places. afterall, i did make it to the end, which is also the beginning. if i knew then what i know now, i would have read "brothers karamazov" or "absalom, absalom" instead.....now THERE is some real reading. someone mentioned TOOL a while back. i have not been a major fan, but bought "lateralus" based on some reviews and can't stop listening. it's perhaps a guilty pleasure, but i find it compelling listening. much more so than the new radiohead, which seems to just drone on and on. i hope that's because i haven't listened to it enough. that's the downside of buying vast quantities of cds, i guess. ok, to make this a legit post, i saw masada in minneapolis a couple months ago....fantastic show. living in iowa doesn't offer much exposure to live zorn, so maybe i was overly impressed...but i still thought the band played incredibly well. see them, if possible. charlie - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:15:56 EDT From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Radiohead In a message dated 6/11/01 11:02:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, marks@foliage.com writes: << i've gotta say that i've never figured out what the big deal was/is with this band. after o.k. computer came out there was tons of press about them and their "groundbreaking" new recording. so, after reading so many articles and after hearing a fairly interesting review on terry gross's "fresh air" radio show, i bought o.k. computer. i still don't see how people can deem them the best rock band in the world. to me, o.k. computer comes across as low-rent king crimson. >> They're the media darlings of the moment. IMO, it's nice to see attention heaped on them instead of yet another teenage boy/girl dance outfit that also happens to open their mouths once in a while. I'll put bands like Djam Karet, Secret Chiefs, Mojave 3, or 5UU's against Tool or Radiohead any day in terms of "groundbreaking", but it shouldn't take away the spotlight from those later bands in being able to release cutting-edge, non-dance music on a major label. Matter of fact, *that's* the real story here. - -- =dg= - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:27:36 -0400 From: Gamantyo Hendrantoro Subject: Re: Radiohead > From: Mark Saleski > > i still don't see how people can deem them the best rock band in the > world. to me, o.k. computer comes across as low-rent king crimson. Perhaps you should not judge them by only one album. Their next (Kid A, which is their best IMHO) is of a very different style than OK Computer. Regards, Gamantyo - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:30:54 -0400 From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: Radiohead I don't hear King Crimson in Radiohead at all. To me, 'OK Computer,' which I flat out adored from the first listen (whereas 'Kid A' and "Kid B" are taking a bit more time to absorb), suggested Pink Floyd as led by a very paranoid Jeff Lynne. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com (still here despite being too busy to say much at the moment...) > From: Mark Saleski > > i still don't see how people can deem them the best rock band in the > world. to me, o.k. computer comes across as low-rent king crimson. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 02:11:09 From: "Andrew Nairn" Subject: Re: Sonic Youth and Stereolab


 

Most commonly for Stereolab people would recommend Emperor Tomato Ketchup, I also like Dots & Loops. I think It takes alot of listens of steeolab to appricate it more. What a like about it is the mellow sound and the could noises they make, really good electronics, and good sining too. Its fairly standard sounding, but Its good listening.

My favorite Sonic youth is Daydream Nation, but That is the one I,ve listened to the closest. I also would recommend the goodbye 20th century just because there are many cool covers like Steve Reich,s pendelum music. and other experimental composers.

----Original Message Follows----
From: "Chris Selvig"
To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Sonic Youth and Stereolab
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:18:00 -0700
I recommend "Bad Moon Rising" for sheer alien guitar tonality, and either
"EVOL" or "Sister" for a more rockist evolution. "Daydream Nation" is
pretty good w/ some fine extended song structures, but I think it's
overlong. As for Stereolab, I don't think they're bad, but I have a hard
time seeing what the big deal is.
-selvig
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
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- - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 19:21:57 -0700 From: "s/Z" Subject: Butcher In Ventura CA John Butcher [Solo] Friday, 8 PM, June 15, 2001 Ventura City Hall Atrium 501 Poli Street, Ventura Admission: $10 Tickets at the door - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 23:39:43 -0300 From: "Gabriel Lichtmann" Subject: RE: Radiohead With Radiohead I have never understood what all the fuss was about, especially when it came to "O.K. Computer" and "Kid A" (I liked "Amnesiac" better), they always seemed to me like another good pop rock band, but nothing special apart from Thom Yorkes voice and a tendency to take some risks -although not many. There are so many good bands out there that deserve more credit, I think it all comes up to a tendency amongst rock writers to praise "angst-filled" pop as if it were a sign of maturity or intelligence. The truth is they end up sounding whiny to me. Now Robert Wyatt, there's someone I respect and admire, "Rock Bottom" and "Shleep" are two of my favorite albums of all time. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 23:01:29 EDT From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Sonic Youth and Stereolab my favorite Sonic Youth and Stereolab are individual tracks, rather than full records. Metronomic Underground, the first song on Emperor Tomato Ketchup, and Diamond Sea, the epic centerpiece of Washing Machine, are both superb, as is Hits Of Sunshine (For Allen Ginsberg), from A Thousand Leaves. all three have held up remarkably well through dozens and dozens of listenings for me, which I can't say about anything else from either group's catalog. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 03:02:29 -0000 From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Re: Wyatt (was Re: Radiohead) Still No Zorn > > >What do you think is Wyatt's best (solo) work? Soft Machine V.1 (esp. the amazing stereo drum solo on 'So Boot If At All') Soft Machine V.2 Soft Machine Third ('Moon In June') End Of An Ear Matching Mole 'Little Red Record' np: Bartok Three Village Scenes Boulez NYP _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V3 #462 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com