Re: Zorn's Next Major Project

From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #534 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Tuesday, August 21 2001 Volume 03 : Number 534 In this issue: - RE: The return of JMT (plus info clearing house) Re: Zorn's next major project Re: Zorn's next major project Re: Zorn's Next Major Project RE: Old Zorn vs. New Zorn etc. Odp: Zorn's next major project "lookout cartridge" (was: old zorn vs. new zorn etc.) New music for string quartet on Mappings, week of August 21, 2001 Re: Gustafsson/Drake Re: Zorn's next major project Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project Re: Zorn's next major project Re: Zorn's next major Project Re: Zorn's next major Project Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project RE: "Lookout Cartridge" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 02:43:47 +0000 From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: RE: The return of JMT (plus info clearing house) >From: "Steve Smith" >Regarding JMT reissues on W&W, first I sed: > > > Wonder if this means the ten-year hole in Tim Berne's life will soon be > > patched. A friend just emailed Uri Caine through his website, inquiring about the possibility of 'Toys' being reissued. Apparently he replied saying it will be coming out on Winter and Winter "sometime" in the future, and that all the other JMT titles will eventually be reissued on W&W... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 23:07:25 EDT From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Zorn's next major project How would everyone here feel about Zorn doing another "standards" -type release, highlighting some jazz musician(s) whose output has been overlooked? I still enjoy his Sunny Clark Memorial/_Voodoo_ release. Way cool stuff... - -- =dg= - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 03:35:17 +0000 From: "thomas chatterton" Subject: Re: Zorn's next major project Join the Butthole Surfers... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 22:33:53 -0700 From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: Zorn's Next Major Project > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - --MS_Mac_OE_3081278033_516456_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Amen, or how about some studio versions of all the great cover arrangements he did for Naked City. There must be fifty or more, here's just the ones I know of; and here are the correct composer credits therein: Funky Stuff (Larry Davis) actually, Kool and the Gang A Night In Tunisia (Ellington) Dizzy Gillespie Baby Doll (Ellington) the great Kenyon Hopkins The Bad & The Beautiful David Raksin skip h - --MS_Mac_OE_3081278033_516456_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: Zorn's Next Major Project

Amen, or how about some studio versions of all the great cover arrangements= he did for Naked City.
There must be fifty or more, here's just the ones I know of;

and here are the correct composer credits therein:

Funky Stuff (Larry Davis)
actually, Kool and the Gang

A Night In Tunisia (Ellington)
Dizzy Gillespie

Baby Doll (Ellington)
the great Kenyon Hopkins

The Bad & The Beautiful

D= avid Raksin

skip h - --MS_Mac_OE_3081278033_516456_MIME_Part-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:02:32 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Vuilleumier=2C_St=E9phane=22?= Subject: RE: Old Zorn vs. New Zorn etc. Hi, - -----Original Message----- From: josephneff [mailto:jneff@visuallink.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 3:57 AM To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com Subject: RE: Old Zorn vs. New Zorn etc. > ....what would I like to see Zorn do next? Well, I'd like to see=20 > him reexamine some old territory in a new way. How a bout a new duo > album with Chadbourne, but this time in a jazz mode, maybe tackling=20 > the duo record that Jim Hall and Ornette never recorded. While we're on zorn-critical mode, what about qualifying his alto style?=20 His Spy versus Spy sax sound never really did it for me=20 compared to the original Ornette (and I *know* many here will disagree). I used to find JZ's style quite his own (albeit a bit flat for me),=20 until last week in fact, when I hit upon Charles Tyler playing alto on "Collective Improvisations" with Wilber Morris (1981) - now that sounded *a lot* like Zorn alto sax. In fact, I'm quite sure Charles Tyler was an influence on Zorn, there's a recent reissue on Chadbourne's label of an EC/Tyler live duet from 1977 which was recorded by Zorn. St=E9phane=20 - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:27:05 +0200 From: "Marcin Gokieli" Subject: Odp: Zorn's next major project - ----- Original Message ----- From: > How would everyone here feel about Zorn doing another "standards" -type release, highlighting >some jazz musician(s) whose output has been overlooked? I still enjoy his Sunny Clark >Memorial/_Voodoo_ release. Way cool stuff... Is it just my problem, or is that disc , as many others from the early '80s, very poorly recorded? The sound is flat. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:24:33 +0200 From: patRice Subject: "lookout cartridge" (was: old zorn vs. new zorn etc.) Joseph wrote: >NR: Joseph McElroy "Lookout Cartridge" (about 100 pgs to go...totally >recommended!) Hi there. Can you maybe tell me (us) a little more about this book? Why should I read it? Thanks!!! patRice np: Ustad Alla Rakha & Zakir Hussain, Tabla Duet nr: Nick Hornby, How To Be Good - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 04:00:00 -0700 From: Herb Levy Subject: New music for string quartet on Mappings, week of August 21, 2001 Hi y'all, This week on Mappings , you'll hear lots of music for string quartet by Franghiz Ali-Zadeh, John Cage, Henry Cowell, Ruth Crawford Seeger, Tina Davidson, Fred Frith, Heinz Holliger, Eleanor Hovda, Gyorgy Ligeti, Ingram Marshall, Conlon Nancarrow, Phill Niblock, Bob Ostertag, John Oswald, Steve Reich, Kaija Saariaho, Giaconto Scelsi, Lois V Vierk, and Julia Wolfe. The show went online Monday evening around 10:00 PM (-0800 GMT) and will remain online at the above URL for a week. Last week's program (featuring music for brass and electronics by Martin Bartlett, JA Deane, Stuart Dempster, Tom Heasley, George E Lewis, Luigi Nono, and Giancarlo Schiaffini) is still available in the Mappings archive , where you can also find play lists for the program since it began in March 1998. Hope you tune in to the program. Bests, Herb - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:46:03 -0500 From: "Samuel Quentin" Subject: Re: Gustafsson/Drake well, can't help you with finding the 'Nothing To Read' album, i never heard it. but i did catch the tour and holy hot fuck it was great. i saw them in Austin, TX. i know that doesn't make you feel any better but i guess i was just wondering if anyone else here on the list made that show and if they can tell me how it compares to a usual live show by one or both of these two? -samuel Hi, A long while back I had a guy offer to burn a copy of "For Don Cherry" (the limited edition Okka CD) for me but I never heard back. Another fellow thought he might sell his too. Let me know what still stands on that privately please. That disc and especially Gustafsson/Lovens' "Nothing to Read" are a couple that really burn my butt being out of print. Their recent tour, which I missed, was also frustratingly titled under this unavailable record's name. Too agonizing for this sax/drum fan. Well, thanks for any help/info, Ryan N. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - - _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:51:29 -0500 From: "Samuel Quentin" Subject: Re: Zorn's next major project Hi, I think maybe he should try picking up another sax- I wonder why he- to my best knowledge- only plays alto. - ---Ryan N. Perhaps he likens himself to a samurai, who's only sword is akin to his only soul. -samuel (who only plays alto) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:12:55 -0500 From: "Samuel Quentin" Subject: Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project I think i can agree that as far as groundbreaking ideas are concerned that the 80's output acheived much more... but, the Masada issue aside, i feel like i haven't really minded because i feel like certain examples of the 90's output show a sense of refining those breakthrough's, though sometimes also just rehashing a bit too much, and, like you say, staying in a niche that has brought him pretty decent recognition for an 'experiemental' type. -samuel patrice wrote: Seriously, am I the only one to think that Zorn's 90's production pales in comparison to the 80's one, as far as groundbreaking ideas are concerned? I sometimes feel that he has found a nice cozy niche (his label, his buddies, his town, his club, etc), and that there is no fresh blood anymore to mess up the whole thing. Almost like a king surrounded by obedient vassals who never dare to make any critic... Patrice. - - _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:23:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project True, It's amazing how these post-death evaluations work. In Jazz, form instance, some of us who were around in the 1960s and 1970 thought Charles Mingus, Ornette Coleman, Thelonious Monk and Cecil Taylor were important composers. Now, if you're to believe the popular press, it was only the late Duke Ellington and Louis Armstrong who are important. Ken Waxman - --- Joseph Zitt wrote: > On Mon, Aug 20, 2001 at 03:53:57PM -0700, William > Crump wrote: > > > Zorn the composer probably won't be properly evaluated until after his death, the way I think it was with Zappa _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:28:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Waxman Subject: Re: Zorn's next major project OK, there are plenty of composers of jazz standards who could use some extra "downtown" popularity. Off the top of my head I'd say Gigi Gyrce, Benny Golson, Oliver Nelson, Kenny Dorham, Budd Johnson, Gerry Mulligan, Paul Desmond, Clifford Jordan, Julius Watkins, J.J. Johnson ... and that's just the horn players. But if Zorn really wanted to raise a stink he could do a standards project made up of the "compositions" of Wynton, Delfayo, Ellis and Brandford Marsalis. Ken Waxman - --- Dgasque@aol.com wrote: > How would everyone here feel about Zorn doing > another "standards" -type release, highlighting some > jazz musician(s) whose output has been overlooked? > I still enjoy his Sunny Clark Memorial/_Voodoo_ > release. Way cool stuff... > > -- > =dg= > > - > _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:32:23 -0600 From: "M Pathos" Subject: Re: Zorn's next major Project "I think i can agree that as far as groundbreaking ideas are concerned. . ." I thought a fundamental tenet of postmodernism was the acknowledgement that there are no new ideas. To hell with "groundbreaking," why doesn't somebody ? anybody ? try to do something simple and sincere? That may sound naive, but to do this well requires tremendous concentration, energy, and thought the like of which isn't required just to splurt out some "new" loopy pseudo-avant-garde mess. People don't feel classic Coltrane, Brotzman, Miles or Louis because any of them blew longest, loudest, or fastest but because they brought a unique sensibility and sensitivity to their instruments that's communicated for listeners to commune with. Maybe the majority of musicians in this programmed age, Zorn included, have lost touch with the distinctive qualities that attract(ed) audiences to their art in the first place. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:39:25 -0700 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Zorn's next major Project On Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:32:23 -0600 "M Pathos" wrote: > > "I think i can agree that as far as groundbreaking ideas are concerned. . ." > > > I thought a fundamental tenet of postmodernism was the acknowledgement that ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ That makes sense only if you attribute any credibility of postmodernism... > there are no new ideas. To hell with "groundbreaking," why doesn't somebody > ? anybody ? try to do something simple and sincere? That may sound naive, > but to do this well requires tremendous concentration, energy, and thought > the like of which isn't required just to splurt out some "new" loopy > pseudo-avant-garde mess. Why not, but Zorn came to recognition for significant groundbreaking music. You can't avoid that people who have been following him since almost the beginning whine for not finding anymore what attracted them in the first place. Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:40:40 -0700 From: William Crump Subject: Re: Again: Zorn's next major Project I don't necessarily believe the popular press...good point, though. I was thinking more of post-death evaluations by musicians looking for interesting additions to their repertoire, and not having to deal with the intimidation of The Composer giving them the hairy eyeball. (viz. Zorn's insistence on control over game pieces by passing them along orally, and mixed feelings about guerilla versions.) That's why I think that Omnibus' and Ambrosius' Zappa projects work much better than, say, the Meridian Arts Ensemble's FZ arrangements. They (Meridian) were maybe too eager to get FZ's seal of approval just before he died, and perhaps weren't adventurous enough with the arrangements. Or perhaps it was the limitations of the instrumentation (brass quintet plus drums)? I don't know enough about chamber music to say, but I know what I like, and I like Omnibus and Ambrosius. I just hope I live long enough to hear some radical variations on Zorn's work by people who aren't being conducted by JZ sitting on the floor in front of them. William Crump Ken Waxman wrote: > True, It's amazing how these post-death evaluations work. > In Jazz, form instance, some of us who were around in > the 1960s and 1970 thought Charles Mingus, Ornette > Coleman, Thelonious Monk and Cecil Taylor were > important composers. > Now, if you're to believe the popular press, it was > only the late Duke Ellington and Louis Armstrong who > are important. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 14:08:18 -0400 From: "josephneff" Subject: RE: "Lookout Cartridge" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_006A_01C12A4A.BA924860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, ....for PatRice and all others interested, "Lookout Cartridge" = is a novel of post-modernist fiction by Joseph McElroy, who is probably = best known for his 1000+ pg. tome "Women and Men". "LC" is comparable to = works by William Gaddis and Thomas Pynchon, though it is also = distinctive from, say, "The Recognitions" by Gaddis or "Gravity's = Rainbow" by Pynchon, in that "Cartridge" is more economical at under 550 = pgs. and also McElroy doesn't go on flights of absurdity that Pynchon = did in "Rainbow" (no talking dogs or trips into the sewer via the = commode). He's similar to Gaddis in that he dispenses with quotation = marks to indicate spoken passages by characters, but where Gaddis = follows the style that Joyce used, McElroy often lets his bits of = dialogue appear in the middle of paragraphs, though surprisingly this = doesn't make "Cartridge" particularly difficult to read. It goes down = smoother than either of the above mentioned novels, though I don't think = I'd rate "Cartridge" as large an achievement as "The Recognitions" or = "Rainbow".=20 ....all this being said, at its core, "Cartridge" is a suspense = novel about the making of an avant-garde film. It's brilliant in the = amount of pure information that gets spit out, so much of it regarding = characters and events that intertwine in an uncompromising fashion that = can result, for me, in moments of information overload, where I'm left = rereading bits of text in an attempt to assure that I'm digesting all = the connections necessary to understand the narrative. This being said, = McElroy does a good job in solidifying all the essential bits and = combines this with moments of personal remembrance by his narrator that = add a welcome emotional weight to the story. There is a rather = outstanding part where the narrator recalls how he and his wife, = Americans living in England, are forced to come to terms with Kennedy's = assassination. It's handled with such skill, a directness and lack of = sentiment that ultimately adds to the emotional kick of the passage, = that I was left with nothing but pure admiration.=20 ....if yr into writers like Gaddis, Gass, Pynchon, Coover, etc. = I'd completely recommend this. And if you want to venture in post-modern = fiction (what some call "meta-fiction") this might be a good place to = start. I remain.... Joseph NP: Marion Brown "Three for Shepp" CD NR: Harold Brodkey "First Love and Other Sorrows" =20 - ------=_NextPart_000_006A_01C12A4A.BA924860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello,

....for PatRice = and all=20 others interested, "Lookout Cartridge" is a novel of post-modernist = fiction by=20 Joseph McElroy, who is probably best known for his 1000+ pg. tome "Women = and=20 Men". "LC" is comparable to works by William Gaddis and Thomas = Pynchon,=20 though it is also distinctive from, say, "The Recognitions" by = Gaddis or=20 "Gravity's Rainbow" by Pynchon, in that "Cartridge" is more economical = at under=20 550 pgs. and also McElroy doesn't go on flights of absurdity that = Pynchon=20 did in "Rainbow" (no talking dogs or trips into the sewer via = the=20 commode). He's similar to Gaddis in that he dispenses with = quotation marks=20 to indicate spoken passages by characters, but where Gaddis follows=20 the style that Joyce used, McElroy often lets his bits of = dialogue=20 appear in the middle of paragraphs, though surprisingly this doesn't = make=20 "Cartridge" particularly difficult to read. It goes down smoother than = either of=20 the above mentioned novels, though I don't think I'd rate "Cartridge" as = large=20 an achievement as "The Recognitions" or "Rainbow".

= ....all this=20 being said, at its core, "Cartridge" is a suspense novel about the = making of an=20 avant-garde film. It's brilliant in the amount of pure information that = gets=20 spit out, so much of it regarding characters and events that=20 intertwine in an uncompromising fashion that can result, for me, in = moments=20 of information overload, where I'm left rereading bits of text in = an=20 attempt to assure that I'm digesting all the connections necessary to = understand=20 the narrative. This being said, McElroy does a good job = in solidifying=20 all the essential bits and combines this with moments of personal = remembrance by=20 his narrator that add a welcome emotional weight to the story. There is=20 a rather outstanding part where the narrator recalls how he and his = wife,=20 Americans living in England, are forced to come to terms with Kennedy's=20 assassination. It's handled with such skill, a directness and lack of = sentiment=20 that ultimately adds to the emotional kick of the passage, that I = was left=20 with nothing but pure admiration.

....if=20 yr into writers like Gaddis, Gass, Pynchon, Coover, etc. I'd completely=20 recommend this. And if you want to venture in post-modern fiction (what = some=20 call "meta-fiction") this might be a good place to start.

I remain....

Joseph

NP: Marion Brown "Three for Shepp" = CD

NR: Harold Brodkey "First Love and = Other=20 Sorrows"

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