From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #620 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Monday, November 19 2001 Volume 03 : Number 620 In this issue: - frith question + frith news Re: Review Request: Insignificance by Jim O'Rourke OT: Fusion-ish Bulgarian Wedding Music?? Re: Review Request: Insignificance by Jim O'Rourke Re: Review Request: Insignificance by Jim O'Rourke R.I.P. Michael Karoli (Can) c a n - suggestions? Re: c a n - suggestions? Re: c a n - suggestions? Re: c a n - suggestions? RE: R.I.P. Michael Karoli (Can) Re: R.I.P. Michael Karoli (Can) R.I.P. Tommy Flanagan [was RE: R.I.P. Michael Karoli (Can)] Re: R.I.P. Tommy Flanagan Re: R.I.P. Tommy Flanagan [was RE: R.I.P. Michael Karoli (Can)] RIP Panama Francis radical this Re: re. zorn/zionism (and some music stuff) Re: re. zorn/zionism (and some music stuff) Polwechsel Re: Polwechsel Re: zorn/zionism (for Yahwe's sake!) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 01:58:42 -0600 (CST) From: Whit Schonbein Subject: frith question + frith news someone sent me a recording of a german radio show involving fred frith working with source material provided by alexander schuhmacher. the music in the show is constantly interrupted by german commentary (or frith being interviewed, which is immediately overdubbed with german translation). the music itself strikes me as quite nice, so this recoring is annoying me to no end, what with all the interruptions. but i can't seem to find any indication that the music was ever released in any other form (judging from fredfrith.com). so, that's the question: where can i get this music? now, just in case you haven't visited fredfrith.com recently, here's the latest news posted (no date is given): - - first release on Fred Records = 'Gravity & Accidental' (music for dance vol. 3). ("to appear before Christmas") - - winter & winter release, 'maybe monday', with joan jeanrenaud & myles boisen ("soon") - - Spool release, 'Dearness', live recording w/ anne bourne and john oswald ("soon") - - Ambience Magnetiques release, studio recordins w/ jean derome & pierre tanguay ("soon") for more info, as always, pay a visit to www.fredfrith.com - -whit - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 00:04:14 -0800 From: Jim Flannery Subject: Re: Review Request: Insignificance by Jim O'Rourke s~Z wrote: > > Is it my imagination or all of those titles Nicholas Roeg films? Three out of four. Since _Halfway_'s an ep, it may not be considered part of the "series". Note, the quality of those films of Roeg's seems to've followed the same trajectory. God help us if the next one's titled _Castaway_. - -- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com "For children are innocent and love justice; while most of us are wicked and naturally prefer mercy" -- G.K. Chesterton np: L@N, _Twoinone_ nr: James Elkins, _What Painting Is_ - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 03:09:53 EST From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: OT: Fusion-ish Bulgarian Wedding Music?? It's been a Bulgarian-flavored early morning here in the house. Everyone else was asleep, so I put on the headphones and treated myself to some Ivo Papasov, followed directly afterward by Farmer's Market. After this double treat of odd-measured music played at warped speeds, I couldn't help but wonder if there were any rock-oriented bands doing the wedding music thing, but in more of a Fusion-type setting, kind of like a Finch or Brand X playing stuff in 23/8 time. Any leads or hints welcome... - -- =dg= - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 03:35:53 EST From: Orangejazz@aol.com Subject: Re: Review Request: Insignificance by Jim O'Rourke - --part1_113.7d7f4ac.2928cce9_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hey, i'm working on a full review to be posted on ink19.com at some point by december, but in the meantime, i'd just like to say i think it's a very good album. I don't see "Eureka" being redundant compared to "Bad Timing", and "Halfway to a Threeway" wasn't a full length anyway. "halfway" being the only album not named after a roeg film, i believe. "Insignificance" shows O'Rourke's lyric-writing skill at a high level, and his music taking a slightly more hard-edged direction. It's much less "rock" than I think was expected, and it's not a gigantic departure from the stuff on Drag City. If you're tired of misanthropic pop music that plays with idioms and expectations, than just wait for his solo release on mego or atavistic. from, matt - --part1_113.7d7f4ac.2928cce9_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hey,
i'm working on a full review to be posted on ink19.com at some point by december, but in the meantime, i'd just like to say i think it's a very good album. I don't see "Eureka" being redundant compared to "Bad Timing", and "Halfway to a Threeway" wasn't a full length anyway. "halfway" being the only album not named after a roeg film, i believe. "Insignificance" shows O'Rourke's lyric-writing skill at a high level, and his music taking a slightly more hard-edged direction. It's much less "rock" than I think was expected, and it's not a gigantic departure from the stuff on Drag City. If you're tired of misanthropic pop music that plays with idioms and expectations, than just wait for his solo release on mego or atavistic.

from,
matt - --part1_113.7d7f4ac.2928cce9_boundary-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 03:12:28 -0600 (CST) From: Whit Schonbein Subject: Re: Review Request: Insignificance by Jim O'Rourke keithmar@msn.com asks: "Is it my imagination or all of those titles Nicholas Roeg films?" 'bad timing', 'eureka', and 'insignificance' are all roeg films. they are in chronological order - 1980, 1983, 1985. the next one would be 'castaway' (1987), and the film prior to bad timing was 'the man who fell to earth'. 'halfway to a threeway' could be a reference to the film 'Performance' (1970), which roeg co-directed with Donald Cammell. apparently it features a three way sex scene involving mick jagger (and others, of course) - i've never seen it, so can't comment. maybe it's simultaneously a reference to the roeg film, and to the fact that 'eureka' (and 'halfway to a threeway') are from 1999, 2 years after 'bad timing', and 2 years prior to 'insignificance' - halfway to a trilogy of discs based in some way or another on roeg films. [also, the film 'eureka' was 3 years after the film 'bad timing', and 3 years before the film 'insignificance', for what it's worth]. so, on the basis of this pattern, i would expect that the current o'rourke cd (which i have not heard) is similar to the other two, but the next one will be distinctly different ;). - -whit - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 10:58:39 -0500 From: Perfect Sound Forever Subject: R.I.P. Michael Karoli (Can) http://www.czukay.de/news Jason Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 08:59:16 -0800 (PST) From: jason tors Subject: c a n - suggestions? I have been meaning to venture beyond my single can record, ege bamyasi. Any suggestions where to head next would be greatly appreciated. Thanks J __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 12:20:00 EST From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: c a n - suggestions? In a message dated 11/18/01 12:01:20 PM, jasontors@yahoo.com writes: << I have been meaning to venture beyond my single can record, ege bamyasi. Any suggestions where to head next would be greatly appreciated. >> Tago Mago, Tago Mago, Tago Mago! in my opinion, the best rock record ever made. then get Soundtracks, Monster Movie, Delay 1968, Future Days and Soon Over Babaluma, in that order, if possible. the first long track on the Peel Sessions is also well worth the purchase price. while some people like Landed and/or Unlimited Edition, I'd personally recommend sticking to these, and leaving alone their post-Babaluma work. I envy anyone who hasn't heard these yet. you're in for quite a treat. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 13:10:13 EST From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: c a n - suggestions? In a message dated 11/18/01 12:01:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, jasontors@yahoo.com writes: << I have been meaning to venture beyond my single can record, ege bamyasi. Any suggestions where to head next would be greatly appreciated. >> The 2xCD live _Tago Mago_ is generally heralded as one of their best. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 13:31:33 EST From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: c a n - suggestions? In a message dated 11/18/01 1:12:35 PM, Dgasque@aol.com writes: << The 2xCD live _Tago Mago_ is generally heralded as one of their best >> um, while it was a double LP originally, Tago Mago is a single CD and not a live record. I didn't see that Karoli news until after my previous post, a real shame. his crowning musical moment is probably on Mother Sky, the 14 minute centerpiece of Soundtracks. when I was in Cologne last month, I had the pleasure of meeting Jaki Liebezeit briefly, very exciting for me. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 13:47:21 -0500 From: "Steve Smith" Subject: RE: R.I.P. Michael Karoli (Can) On the subject of lost masters, Tommy Flanagan died on Friday. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - -----Original Message----- From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Perfect Sound Forever Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2001 10:59 AM To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com Subject: R.I.P. Michael Karoli (Can) http://www.czukay.de/news Jason Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 10:55:39 -0800 From: Skip Heller Subject: Re: R.I.P. Michael Karoli (Can) > On the subject of lost masters, Tommy Flanagan died on Friday. > > Steve Smith > ssmith36@sprynet.com > Steve -- Could you provide more details. Damn, he was great. He really knew how to provide the glue in any rhythm section without sacrificing one iota of his own voice. skip h - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 14:37:40 -0500 From: "Steve Smith" Subject: R.I.P. Tommy Flanagan [was RE: R.I.P. Michael Karoli (Can)] There have been no further details released regarding Flanagan yet, as far as I have seen. No Times obit as yet. The news popped up on rec.music.bluenote yesterday - and while I never take anything there on face value, several people reported having heard about it on WBGO-FM, which is always a strong indicator of veracity. Flanagan had been seriously ill on and off for about two years, so this wasn't entirely unexpected. My girlfriend interviewed him during the late summer for a piece she did on singers and instrumentalists' relations for Jazz Times's educational issue this fall. She says he was quiet and spoke with some effort, but he was lucid and full of great memories. My own great memories would have to include the time I heard him six times during a two-week stretch at the Vanguard about three years ago. Sheer bliss. The Blue Note release 'Sunset and the Mockingbird' gives a pretty fair approximation of what I heard, but really you had to be there to appreciate the many levels of subtlety in the interplay of his last trio, with Peter Washington and Lewis Nash. Listening to Tommy and Lewis mixing it up behind Peter's soloing was enough to confirm for me that Flanagan was one of the most under-rated piano legends around. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - King Crimson, "Book of Saturday," 'The Ultimate Live Rarities, Vol. 1' (My Phenix boot) - -----Original Message----- From: Skip Heller [mailto:velaires@earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 1:56 PM > On the subject of lost masters, Tommy Flanagan died on Friday. > > Steve Smith > ssmith36@sprynet.com > Steve -- Could you provide more details. Damn, he was great. He really knew how to provide the glue in any rhythm section without sacrificing one iota of his own voice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 15:37:49 EST From: Jeffcalt@aol.com Subject: Re: R.I.P. Tommy Flanagan Flanagan obit: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-000092233nov18.story - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 16:47:01 -0500 From: Mike Chamberlain Subject: Re: R.I.P. Tommy Flanagan [was RE: R.I.P. Michael Karoli (Can)] on 11/18/01 2:37 PM, Steve Smith at ssmith36@sprynet.com wrote: The Blue Note release 'Sunset and the Mockingbird' gives a pretty > fair approximation of what I heard, but really you had to be there to > appreciate the many levels of subtlety in the interplay of his last trio, > with Peter Washington and Lewis Nash. Listening to Tommy and Lewis mixing it > up behind Peter's soloing was enough to confirm for me that Flanagan was one > of the most under-rated piano legends around. Ditto on this. I only saw Flanagan one time, a couple of years ago. It was like a lesson in piano playing and piano trio playing. Also had the chance to interview him after the concert. A real gentleman. A sad day. - --Mike - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 17:14:00 -0500 From: James Hale Subject: RIP Panama Francis http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/17/obituaries/17FRAN.html - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 16:27:01 -0800 From: mwisckol@ocregister.com Subject: radical this I've been scanning the radical culture emails pretty quickly lately, but that won't stop me from venturing an obvious observation that has probably been mentioned already -> "Radical Jewish Culture" always struck me as being a tongue-in-cheek marketing slogan. Martin np. Astor Piazzolla -- Lumiere - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 02:35:04 -0500 From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: Re: re. zorn/zionism (and some music stuff) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Zitt" To: "Jesse Kudler" Cc: > > Well, how about "pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the > > gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative > > lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way"? > > OK, the problem here is that your suggestion buys into the previous > assumption that the few negative examples represent all of > Christianity. Again, you can choose to focus on a few negative > examples, or on the large amount of good that has been done. Hi Joseph, Well, it seemed that the thought in the original e-mail was something along the lines of "Radical Christianity is offensive to whom?" I of course don't mean to impugn all of Christianity or any other religion, though I do think Falwell, Robertson, et al certainly contribute to the queasy feelings in many Americans towards Christian Fundamentalism. Not to mention abortion clinic bombers and so forth. Of course Mother Theresa etc. are the other side of that coin. I meant to speak to the interpreation of Christian doctrine more than Christianity itself. Anyway. Thanks a lot to Caleb for the Gunter CD reviews. Oh, and per Jon Abbey's mention of Polwechsel 3; is that out yet? I was pretty excited when I went to the durian page and saw it mentioned a few weeks ago, but it wasn't listed at dutch east india as of a couple of days ago, and they usually list things even before they're available. - -Jesse np: "Variious" comp. (Intransitive) - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 02:49:26 EST From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: re. zorn/zionism (and some music stuff) In a message dated 11/19/01 2:37:33 AM, jkudler@mail.wesleyan.edu writes: << Oh, and per Jon Abbey's mention of Polwechsel 3; is that out yet? I was pretty excited when I went to the durian page and saw it mentioned a few weeks ago, but it wasn't listed at dutch east india as of a couple of days ago, and they usually list things even before they're available. >> Dutch East doesn't seem to have their copies yet, but I still have a few for sale, $12 each in the US plus shipping, e-mail privately if interested. I wasn't trying to spur sales with my question, though; I was curious if anyone else had an opinion, since I know promos have gone out, and I'm sure that some European distributors have it already. also, as long as I'm kind of on the topic, I distribute a lot of other labels' CDs now (For 4 Ears, Amoebic, Sonoris, Potlatch, Meniscus, Durian, Slub, Fringes, Rossbin, etc.) mostly involving musicians who also have records on Erstwhile, at better prices than you'll be able to find elsewhere. if you live in North America, and are interested in receiving my private mailing list offering these discs occasionally, send me an e-mail. thanks, sorry for the commercial interruption. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 04:24:41 -0500 From: "Jesse Kudler" Subject: Polwechsel Jon Abbey said: > Dutch East doesn't seem to have their copies yet, but I still have a few for > sale, $12 each in the US plus shipping, e-mail privately if interested. I Oh, I thought the implication in your other e-mail was that you hadn't heard it yet. Didn't realize it was around. Speaking of Durian, how's that Peter Brandlymayr disc (Jon, or anyone else who may have heard it)? The mp3 was pretty nice, but too short to really tell much. - -Jesse - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 08:57:38 EST From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Polwechsel In a message dated 11/19/01 4:26:46 AM, jkudler@mail.wesleyan.edu writes: << how's that Peter Brandlmayr disc (Jon, or anyone else who may have heard it)? The mp3 was pretty nice, but too short to really tell much. >> that one I haven't heard yet, but I do know that Peter is the brother of Radian drummer Martin, and it's a classical record. it looks like Radian will be making their NYC debut in April, by the way. they're recording their next record for Thrill Jockey in January in Chicago. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 09:39:50 -0600 From: "Robert A. Pleshar" Subject: Re: zorn/zionism (for Yahwe's sake!) At 10:45 PM 11/16/01 +0100, duncan youngerman wrote: >The problem is the word "radicalism". Throughout History all the way to >today's headline news, it's meant 1 thing : intolerance. >Intolerance for the different, for the moderate, for the"impure", for >the mixed, for the heterogenous, for the complex. > >In Art it is sometimes interesting, (although even Boulez gave up his >"Polyphonie X" in 1950 as musically worthless after having for a long >while hoped to create the ultimate total serialism masterpiece). > >In religion and/or politics, however, it's only meant Totalitarianism. > >Unfathomable bloodletting. Unfathomable mind numbing. First of all, aren't we talking about art here? I won't even bother to refute your ridiculous assertion that totalitarianism is the only meaning of radical in regard to politics or religion. >When someone says: "I'd love to hear radical islamic music", one just >has to pinch one's self: >Taliban law (and you cannot get more radically islamic than that) >punishes any playing of music or singing with stiff jail sentences. >Iranian and Saudi Arabian laws fare only slightly better. One only needs to pinch oneself if one is unaware of the various definitions of "radical" and how it is being used in this context.More than one version of radical Islam (i.e. that which departs considerably from traditional Islam) whould of course permit music. >Bach was deeply protestant, -but not radically. He mingled and worked >with jews and catholics, and his approach to religion was earthy, >sensual, oecumenical, a far cry from "The Scarlet Letter". >Michelangelo was more humanistic pagan than catholic, a very far cry >from the Inquisition. > >Jazz was born out of the bordellos and military parades of New Orleans. > >Nothing to do whatsoever with religion or any sort of radicalism. > >To hear it all of a sudden refered to as or used as a model for some >sort of messaianic ethnic mafia is not only ignorant and cretinous >beyond belief, it betrays utter deafness. Ignorant and cretinous? messaianic ethnic mafia? Maybe you should try learning what these big words mean before you use them, like "radical." Rob - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V3 #620 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. 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