From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #765 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Friday, February 8 2002 Volume 03 : Number 765 In this issue: - RE: Time and words Re: zornlist death, bump, sun ra RE: Time and words Re: Luttenbachers again / 'New York is Now' book Re: zornlist death, bump, sun ra Re: Luttenbachers again Re: Zorn as Miles???????? Re: Zorn as Miles???????? Re: Time and words Re: Time and words seriously! more on bjork Re: Time and words Naming Re: Time and words Re: Naming ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 17:26:14 -0700 From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S)" Subject: RE: Time and words >"Double Nickels on the Dime" (Minutemen) I just borrowed this from someone...it does nothing for me. am i missing something or am I just too young? Matt - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 16:46:30 -0800 From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: zornlist death, bump, sun ra >>>I feel dizzy. There is a ridiculous bump growing on my forehead. I long to see the bebop progressions Miles famously wrote on matchbook covers in nightclubs after he first arrived in New York. Or is it just the decline of the zornlist, this limp wristed chucking of mud we read day-in and day-out now?<<< Miles expressed opinions about his earlier stuff very much in accord with the so-called 'nay-sayers' here. He thought it was all white-man's music and found it all embarrassing in his later years. Being a white man, I am very thankful for Kind of Blue. Many years ago, before I knew very much about this music, I found Kind of Blue and Mingus's Ah Um in a cut-out bin for $3.99 each. I knew nothing about either recording. When the needle hit the vinyl I was completely blown fucking away. While my tastes have become a bit more extreme in my old age, I still get gooseflesh hearing either of those albums. And, I'm going to find Adderley's Somethin' Else ASAP. Tomorrow night I'll be hangin' with Eugene Chadbourne in Ventura's City Hall. I'm going to request a rake version of So What. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 16:48:22 -0800 From: "carlos torres" Subject: RE: Time and words >"Double Nickels on the Dime" (Minutemen) > >I just borrowed this from someone...it does nothing for me. > >am i missing something or am I just too young? i first heard this album when i was about 15, and didnt know what to make of it, coming from a more straight ahead fast, loud punk mentality. this album didnt take too long to grow on me though, and with each listen, i have discovered something new. my advice, if you care enough, is to let it soak in slowly...i think its worth the time. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 16:56:01 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Luttenbachers again / 'New York is Now' book On Fri, 8 Feb 2002 16:58:25 -0500 "Steve Smith" wrote: > > That said, 'New York Is Now' is exactly as problematic as reported. The Wasnt' the book sponsored by AUM Fidelity? Patrice. PS: pissed at Phil Freeman for dissing Curve, certainly because Tony Halliday was tasteless to the point of not hiring William Parker on a couple of tracks of GIFT... - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 20:01:34 -0500 From: James Hale Subject: Re: zornlist death, bump, sun ra s~Z wrote: > Miles expressed opinions about his earlier stuff very much in > accord with the so-called 'nay-sayers' here. He thought it was all > white-man's music and found it all embarrassing in his later > years. Miles said a lot of shit that he didn't mean. Considering that Gil Evans remained his closest friend until Evans' death, and the effort Davis put into performing that music at Montreux just prior to his own death, I think it's obvious (and all of Davis' biographers agree) that he did not consider his work in the mid- to late-'50s an embarrassment. His refusal to "look back" (at least in public) was his own way of dealing with life. James Hale - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 01:05:35 From: "William York" Subject: Re: Luttenbachers again Hey, Ryan and other list members (I got some comments off list and don't have time to respond to all -- sorry ... I shouldn't be posting this, even, due to deadlines, etc....) Apologies for the long post. You make good points, and some funny ones, and I'm not trying to pick a fight. Anyway, the Luttenbachers stuff isn't perfect, but it does raise some good questioins as to the current state of (free) jazz/improv, and just what (not all of, but a good portion of) it is really SAYING these days. >Maybe if Lovens and Gustafsson wore more stage makeup, >Weasel wouldn't consider them as predictable. I doubt that's it. He has called Marduk (black metal band) predictable, or something to that effect, and they wear enough face paint to cover a small tool shed. >dunno, he's right to take a jab at some of these guys, >because there really is a kiss-ass community >surrounding them for the most part that doesn't >exactly challenge them right, exactly. tell anyone they're great for long enough and it is bound to make them complacent. note that he has also said many positive things about lovens, et al. in the past >but Weasel's visions are also >a bit narrow- he's energy and seemingly nothing but >(and it just drives home the point that he calls >Vandermark "smooth jazz" because he does any slow >tunes at all). Well, of course that's an exaggeration. Chalk it up to one guy with an extreme aesthetic mouthing off and, well, exaggerating. I own more albums w/ KV than w/ WW, and I still enjoy KV's music. But, I do feel that w/ the "respectability" that has come to KV in recent years, his music has become a bit more, well, polite. I am not confusing politeness with other factors such as dynamics that go beyond full-blast-all-the-time, the ability to play a ballad, etc. But I see WW's point even if calling KV smooth jazz is of course an exaggeration (and possibly just a friendly jab at an old band member/collaborator...). >Weasel probably takes more than his >fair share of criticism himself, but what do you >expect when you say you want to shoot Rosie O'Donnel >and every album he does is promoted with ridiculous >hyperbole. Ridiculous hyperbole, sure, but it comes with the territory when you're making music such as this. Take it with a grain of salt, just like those Tzadik obis or the grand proclamations of AUM Fidelity-type jazz supporters, AMM/Erstwhile boosters, the over-the-top statements of war-mongering black metal bands, etc. >Talk about predictable- Well, the course of their music over the years hasn't been predictable, really. >which album was the one where free jazz was killed? Heh heh, That was _Trauma_ (haven't heard it yet, it's in the mail). I'll let you know if it kills free jazz, heh heh. >Which was the one where the destruction of the human race was begun? Again, that's funny. It was _Gods of Chaos_. Not my fave. I feel like the ambition outreaches the end result. Still has its moments. But, to say that Weasel is all energy and nothing but, well, the new album on Troubleman has some really well-written and intricate composing. My only criticism would be that the energy level and abrasiveness are not quite on par with something like _Destroy All Music_. But the energy that's there is arguably being channeled more, uh, efficiently. Thanks for reaing, WY _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 20:11:01 EST From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Re: Zorn as Miles???????? - --part1_103.106fd092.2995d125_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/8/02 5:04:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, velaires@earthlink.net writes: > >> Since we seem to be in the cyber confessional, I haven't been able to get > >> into Sonny Rollins. I own maybe ten of his CDs and I never ever crave a > >> single one. I pull them out periodically to see if my ears are ready > for him > >> but they never seem to be. > > Sonny has made way more records than he should. It took me years to find > the stuff that really hooked me onto him. > > skip h > Enlighten me as to which ones I should hear! Tom NP: The Complete Candid Cecil Taylor/Buell Neidlinger, Disc One (Mosaic) - --part1_103.106fd092.2995d125_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/8/02 5:04:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, velaires@earthlink.net writes:


>> Since we seem to be in the cyber confessional, I haven't been able to get
>> into Sonny Rollins.  I own maybe ten of his CDs and I never ever crave a
>> single one.  I pull them out periodically to see if my ears are ready for him
>> but they never seem to be.

Sonny has made way more records than he should.  It took me years to find
the stuff that really hooked me onto him.

skip h


Enlighten me as to which ones I should hear!

Tom

NP: The Complete Candid Cecil Taylor/Buell Neidlinger, Disc One (Mosaic) - --part1_103.106fd092.2995d125_boundary-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 17:35:40 -0800 From: Fred Heller Subject: Re: Zorn as Miles???????? > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - --MS_Mac_OE_3096034540_309765_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit skip heller >> Since we seem to be in the cyber confessional, I haven't been able to get >> into Sonny Rollins. I own maybe ten of his CDs and I never ever crave a >> single one. I pull them out periodically to see if my ears are ready for him >> but they never seem to be. Sonny has made way more records than he should. It took me years to find the stuff that really hooked me onto him. skip h Enlighten me as to which ones I should hear! Tom SAXOPHONE COLOSSUS and PLUS FOUR are the ones everyone agrees on. Sonny's playing unstoppably on 'em. skip h - --MS_Mac_OE_3096034540_309765_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: Zorn as Miles???????? skip heller



>> Since we seem to be in the cyber= confessional, I haven't been able to get
>> into Sonny Rollins.  I own maybe ten of his CDs and I never e= ver crave a
>> single one.  I pull them out periodically to see if my ears a= re ready for him
>> but they never seem to be.

Sonny has made way more records than he should.  It took me years to f= ind
the stuff that really hooked me onto him.

skip h


Enlighten me as to which ones I should hear!

Tom

SAXOPHONE COLOSSUS and PLUS FOUR are the ones everyone agrees on.  Son= ny's playing unstoppably on 'em.

skip h - --MS_Mac_OE_3096034540_309765_MIME_Part-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 17:36:55 -0800 From: Fred Heller Subject: Re: Time and words skip heller >> "Double Nickels on the Dime" (Minutemen) >> >> I just borrowed this from someone...it does nothing for me. >> >> am i missing something or am I just too young? > > > i first heard this album when i was about 15, and didnt know what to make of > it, coming from a more straight ahead fast, loud punk mentality. this album > didnt take too long to grow on me though, and with each listen, i have > discovered something new. my advice, if you care enough, is to let it soak > in slowly...i think its worth the time. > I don't think it's the best starting point as there is so much of it. PARANOID TIME and BUZZ OR HOWL are great intros to the band. skip h - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 18:48:16 -0800 From: "carlos torres" Subject: Re: Time and words >I don't think it's the best starting point as there is so much of it. >PARANOID TIME and BUZZ OR HOWL are great intros to the band. those are GREAT albums..but,double nickles...its beyond any of that..its an entity all in its self, it hooked me on to the band and their sound and made me search out everything else they ever put out. however, there is no real "prerequisit" for this album... _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 18:49:24 -0800 From: hyyy gbbbb Subject: seriously! more on bjork i hope this is not a repost. denizens of this list may have a PhD coming their way. (yeah, yeah, i know most of y'all have one already..) > Apologies for cross postings. Please pass on to interested colleagues. >=20 > CALL FOR PAPERS >=20 > _A Pretty Rush Down My Spine: Essays on Bj=F6rk_ > Edited by Greg Hainge and Paul Attinello >=20 > Abstracts are invited for a new collection on Bj=F6rk intended to bring an > interdisciplinary, critical investigation to bear on all aspects of her > music and career. >=20 > Potential topics include but are not limited to: > - technology and virtuality; > - timbre / noise / sample / glitch; > - genre and cross-genre writing; > - anti- and hyper-pop; > - video, film and visual images; > - grammatical and syntactic deterritorialization; > - experimental / minoritarian use of language; > - internet communication and distribution; > - cyborg / nature dichotomy; > - post-human; > - 'machined' vocal qualities; > - gender models and sensuality; > - emotivity / affectivity / sensation; > - representations of Iceland; > - self-representations; > - the Sugar Cubes and soloist orientation; > - covers / reinterpretations; > - collaborations and special appearances; > - critical and fan reception; > - marketing strategy and anti-industry moves; > - negotiations with the press. >=20 > The editors represent the fields of cultural studies and musicology, but > work from other fields is also welcome. A broad range of approaches, > including critique, analysis, hermeneutics, and industry studies (or > syntheses of any of these) are encouraged, as are collaborations, > especially between writers working in different fields or methodologies. >=20 > Please send abstracts and proposals (maximum 500 words) as well as a > brief CV by June 1, 2002; we envisage that final papers will be due > mid-January 2003. All attachments should be sent as RTF files for > compatibility. >=20 > All materials and inquiries should be directed to: >=20 > greg.hainge@adelaide.edu.au > and > pattinello@chariot.net.au >=20 >=20 > -- > Dr Greg Hainge, Lecturer in French > Centre for European Studies, University of Adelaide SA 5005. > tel: (Int. + 61) (08) 8303 5659, fax: 8303 5241 > http://www.geocities.com/ghainge/ > ****** > _Culture Theory and Critique_ Editorial Board. > ****** > Australian Society for French Studies Publications Editor > ****** > Australia and New Zealand Representative > of the Soci=E9t=E9 d=92=C9tudes C=E9liniennes >=20 - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 19:35:16 -0800 From: Fred Heller Subject: Re: Time and words skip heller > those are GREAT albums..but,double nickles...its beyond any of that..its an > entity all in its self, it hooked me on to the band and their sound and made > me search out everything else they ever put out. however, there is no real > "prerequisit" for this album... > I followed them fr JOY on up, and loved 'em, and even I found DNOTD daunting at first. skip h - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 22:54:04 -0600 From: parry@macconnect.com Subject: Naming >what instrumentalists use words the best? (it's the writer in me.) i >nominate threadgill and tim berne as best at naming >records/compositions/bands. > I don't know anyone who beats Sun Ra for titles. And, of course, great lyrics. Some favorite Sun Ra titles: Outer Nothingness, Next Stop Mars, Outer Space Employment Agency, Advice to Medics, Other Planes of There, Medicine for a Nightmare and best of all, Fate In a Pleasant Mood. And, of course, I love how he kept renaming the Arkestra -- Intergalactic Solar Arkestra, Year 2000 Myth Science Arkestra, Cosmo Discipline Arkestra.... I can't think offhand of anything in the jazz pantheon that I'm supposed to like and am just indifferent to, but I never, ever understood all the hosanas in the rock world for Michael Jackson's "Thriller." Boring. Michael Jackson peaked with "I'll Be There." I always think "Thriller" was a classic example of critics just jumping on a blockbuster bandwagon, spilling a lot of ink to show they were in tune w/ the tenor of the times. But maybe it's me... Parry - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 00:36:04 EST From: Allen949@aol.com Subject: Re: Time and words - --part1_124.b866bec.29960f44_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DNOTD really repays repeated listening. Maybe I'm just nostalgic for the time when I listened to it sort of constantly, but I think it is really the best thing that the Minutement ever did. - --part1_124.b866bec.29960f44_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DNOTD really repays repeated listening.  Maybe I'm just nostalgic for the time when I listened to it sort of constantly, but I think it is really the best thing that the Minutement ever did. - --part1_124.b866bec.29960f44_boundary-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 21:56:12 -0800 From: Fred Heller Subject: Re: Naming skip heller > I can't think offhand of anything in the jazz pantheon that I'm supposed to > like and am just indifferent to, but I never, ever understood all the > hosanas in the rock world for Michael Jackson's "Thriller." Boring. > Michael Jackson peaked with "I'll Be There." I always think "Thriller" was > a classic example of critics just jumping on a blockbuster bandwagon, > spilling a lot of ink to show they were in tune w/ the tenor of the times. > OFF THE WALL is much better, I think. skip h - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V3 #765 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com