From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #800 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Wednesday, February 27 2002 Volume 03 : Number 800 In this issue: - Re: Zappa bio, dammit! Fwd: Re: Zappa bio, dammit! Fwd: Re: Zappa bio, dammit! Re: Zappa bio, dammit! re: Zappa Re: Gail Zappa RE: Gail Zappa 56 across zorn bios? new fella'/ recommendations Fwd: new fella'/ recommendations Re: zorn bios? Re: new fella' recommendations/Rabih Abou-Khalil I gotta ask... Re: I gotta ask... Re: I gotta ask... RE: I gotta ask... Re: I gotta ask... Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #799 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 01:09:02 -0800 From: skip Heller Subject: Re: Zappa bio, dammit! on 2/27/02 12:56 AM, Efr=E9n del Valle at efrendv@yahoo.es wrote: > I really think a very good Zappa biography already > exists: Neil Slaven's "Electric Don Quixote". It's > obvious that you know it but I found it strange nobody > mentioned it yet. I've read it twice and despite my > language limitations, I found it accurate and, above > all, really objective, considering every Zappa > controversies (which were countless, of course) from > many different angles including the POV's of all the > involved parties (when possible). >=20 > Best, >=20 > Efr=E9n del Valle >=20 >>=20 Slaven's book is terrific, but -- and this comes fr knowing at least a few of the involved parties -- you really have to read everything and sort out = a lot of personalities before you start to form a reasonable picture. skip h - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:10:43 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= Subject: Fwd: Re: Zappa bio, dammit! Hi, I suppose you have to be a Zappa-expert to realize that Slaven didn't cover all the possible scope. I'm not and I wasn't so demanding, specially considering another bio published in Spain which was released in a collection that included, among others: Backstreet Boys, Ricky Martin and Blur. Now you understand me, don't you? ;-) Best, efrén > Slaven's book is terrific, but -- and this comes fr > knowing at least a few > of the involved parties -- you really have to read > everything and sort out a > lot of personalities before you start to form a > reasonable picture. > > skip h > > > - > _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:10:43 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= Subject: Fwd: Re: Zappa bio, dammit! Hi, I suppose you have to be a Zappa-expert to realize that Slaven didn't cover all the possible scope. I'm not and I wasn't so demanding, specially considering another bio published in Spain which was released in a collection that included, among others: Backstreet Boys, Ricky Martin and Blur. Now you understand me, don't you? ;-) Best, efrén > Slaven's book is terrific, but -- and this comes fr > knowing at least a few > of the involved parties -- you really have to read > everything and sort out a > lot of personalities before you start to form a > reasonable picture. > > skip h > > > - > _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 01:24:23 -0800 From: skip Heller Subject: Re: Zappa bio, dammit! on 2/27/02 1:10 AM, Efr=E9n del Valle at efrendv@yahoo.es wrote: > Hi, >=20 > I suppose you have to be a Zappa-expert to realize > that Slaven didn't cover all the possible scope. I'm > not and I wasn't so demanding, specially considering > another bio published in Spain which was released in a > collection that included, among others: Backstreet > Boys, Ricky Martin and Blur. Now you understand me, > don't you? ;-) >=20 > Best, >=20 > efr=E9n Slaven's book is a fine one -- as is Michael Gray's, and David Walley's. But each is somewhat one-dimensional. I think the overall best is COSMIK DEBRIS, by Greg Russo, which is the most accurate, comprehensive, and impartial work on FZ (enough that I wound up hiring Russo as a researcher on the Cucamonga era). But it is also the one that concentrates least on the individual personalities of the various players, so even CD, amazing tho it is, is best when dealing strictly with the music end of things, which it does splendidly. sh NP: doc watson: the vanguard years 4 disc set (VERY serious guitar record) - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 08:08:24 EST From: CuneiWay@aol.com Subject: re: Zappa >Incidentally, this nice little story was completely made up by Zappa and >a >very friendly journalist for a local newspaper I have a dear, old friend who used to refer to Frank Zappa and Don Van Vliet as 'those famous liars' Doesn't take away from what they did, but it does mean that you shouldn't believe everything that came out of their mouth. Steve F. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 09:05:33 EST From: TagYrIt@aol.com Subject: Re: Gail Zappa - --part1_173.4387ee8.29ae41ad_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/27/2002 1:49:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, velaires@earthlink.net writes: > As for a really good exhaustive FZ bio, I don't think it's something that > will likely happen in Gail's lifetime, if you know what I mean. > I was just thinking this as I'd read this series of posts. Especially over the last 3 - 4 years or so, the handling of the Zappa estate has been, at best, erratic (through no fault on Ryko's part though). Dale. - --part1_173.4387ee8.29ae41ad_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/27/2002 1:49:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, velaires@earthlink.net writes:


As for a really good exhaustive FZ bio, I don't think it's something that
will likely happen in Gail's lifetime, if you know what I mean.


I was just thinking this as I'd read this series of posts. Especially over the last 3 - 4 years or so, the handling of the Zappa estate has been, at best, erratic (through no fault on Ryko's part though).

Dale. - --part1_173.4387ee8.29ae41ad_boundary-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 09:00:45 -0500 From: "Sean Westergaard" Subject: RE: Gail Zappa This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C1BF6D.3DC73350 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/27/2002 1:49:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, velaires@earthlink.net writes: As for a really good exhaustive FZ bio, I don't think it's something that will likely happen in Gail's lifetime, if you know what I mean. I was just thinking this as I'd read this series of posts. Especially over the last 3 - 4 years or so, the handling of the Zappa estate has been, at best, erratic (through no fault on Ryko's part though). Dale. [Sean Westergaard] erratic is putting it oh so kindly. detrimental might be more accurate. - ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C1BF6D.3DC73350 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 


 
In a message=20 dated 2/27/2002 1:49:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, = velaires@earthlink.net=20 writes:


As for a really good exhaustive FZ bio, I don't think = it's=20 something that
will likely happen in Gail's lifetime, if you know = what I=20 mean.


I was just=20 thinking this as I'd read this series of posts. Especially over the = last 3 - 4=20 years or so, the handling of the Zappa estate has been, at best, = erratic=20 (through no fault on Ryko's part though).

Dale. =
[Sean=20 Westergaard] 
 
 
erratic is=20 putting it oh so kindly.  detrimental might be more=20 accurate.
 
= - ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C1BF6D.3DC73350-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 06:39:14 -0600 From: Herb Levy Subject: 56 across I don't want to get anyone back into the recent discussion of the relative value of Ornette Coleman (who was, after all, from Fort Worth), but someone out there may be interested to note that "Ornette Coleman genre" is a clue in today's NY Times crossword puzzle. The answer is NOT harmolodics. Herb - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 11:57:00 EST From: UFOrbK8@aol.com Subject: zorn bios? so, something really interesting exists. well, lots of really interesting things exist, but this one is relevant-ish. moon unit zappa wrote a novel called 'america the beautiful' which was printed last year. it's about a girl named america throne who is the daughter of a genius artist/performance artist/etc. and falls in love with an artist and gets her heart broken and her adventures trying to reconcile her father as genius and her mother as eccentric shadow-stomper, etc. when i was reading this book in the fall, i couldn't help but think that maybe it wasn't quite as fictional as possible (america has a brother, spoonie, who is a rock star, etc.) and that it is MUZ's way of expressing what it was like (and continues to be like) growing up in the shadow of a deceased genius. it's a great read. i highly reccomend it. love, k8. n.p. - cage, litany for the whale. - --- [.n0thing.is.what.is.sAid.] k a t e p e t e r s o n c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html http://www.icefoundation.org (roundtable) - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 09:40:18 -0800 From: "gorilla thing" Subject: new fella'/ recommendations Hello, I joined the list about a week ago and I'm enjoying the reading. I have a few questions as a newbie to "modernjazz" might have. I have a few Masada's, Zorn's and just recently picked up Dave Douglas's "Thousand Evenings"; I don't know the correct term for the type of music some of this sounds like to me but I'll use euro-jazz because to me it sounds very European influenced, this brings me to my question(s) could I get some recommendations regarding similar artists of this style using violin, cello etc, and common jazz elements to create such a wonderful sound, (the only other musician that I own who gives me similar satisfaction is Django Reinhardt) Recommendations of other styles from other countries would be appreciated as well including web sites. Thanks Chad _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 19:07:52 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= Subject: Fwd: new fella'/ recommendations Hi, Chad wrote: >could I get some recommendations regarding similar >artists > of this style using > violin, cello etc, and common jazz elements to > create such a wonderful > sound, From the top of my head, I've recently been a lot into Myra Melford's Extended Ensemble "Alive in the House of Saints" on HatOlogy. It includes Dave Douglas, Marty Ehrlich, Melford herself and I don't recall the rythm section. Also, her "Above Blue" release on Arabesque with the The Same River Twice ensemble could be recommendable for what you seem to be looking for. Certainly European-infused with some sections closer to chamber-music than what we strictly regard as "jazz". I'd also check Susie Ibarra's first Tzadik release, "Flower after Flower" and her first trio effort, "Radiance" with Cooper-Moore on piano & harp and Charles Burnham on violin. The former is really laid-back and the latter you'll find much more dynamic. However, I'd stick with "Flower...", I found it far more interesting: really quiet, beatiful melodies, good instrumentation/performers, ... (I'm not a critic, as you see ;-)). These are some that came to my head (considering that you want a mixture of "traditional" jazz instrumentations + strings). Best, Efrén del VAlle _______________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente. http://messenger.yahoo.es - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:57:03 -0800 From: skip Heller Subject: Re: zorn bios? on 2/27/02 8:57 AM, UFOrbK8@aol.com at UFOrbK8@aol.com wrote: > when i was reading this book in the fall, i couldn't help but think that > maybe it wasn't quite as fictional as possible (america has a brother, > spoonie, who is a rock star, etc.) and that it is MUZ's way of expressing > what it was like (and continues to be like) growing up in the shadow of a > deceased genius. I'm pretty sure. There's some details in there that had to really bother Gail Zappa to see in print. skip h - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 16:33:44 -0500 From: "Ajda the Turkish Queen" Subject: Re: new fella' recommendations/Rabih Abou-Khalil Well, I'll recommend Rabih Abou-Khalil. It's a sleepy, middle-eastern type of jazz, which I think you might like... The album I have is "Blue Camel", on Enja/Mesa/Bluemoon. He has many other albums, including: Between Dusk and Dawn, Bukra, Roots & Sprouts, Al-Jadida, Tarab, The Sultan's Picnic (which I have also heard and is pretty good), and Arabian Waltz, maybe more... Good luck and welcome:) Ajda the Turkish Queen http://mp3.com/turkishqueen http://wmbr.mit.edu/schedesc.html#binge Remix http://drawbridge.com/countess/music.html Michael Gira Interview http://www.younggodrecords.com/audio/interview/AjdaInterview.ram _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 17:10:47 -0500 From: "Andrew" Subject: I gotta ask... Is Zorn a homosexual? I've been wondering this for about a year. Please, no "why should it matter" or indignant responses.....i'm just genuinely curious. andrew - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 14:45:34 -0800 From: skip Heller Subject: Re: I gotta ask... on 2/27/02 2:10 PM, Andrew at ahorton@vt.edu wrote: > Is Zorn a homosexual? I've been wondering this for about a year. > > Please, no "why should it matter" or indignant responses.....i'm just > genuinely curious. > > andrew > > > - > By all accounts, the Z digs chicks sh - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 14:52:58 -0800 From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: I gotta ask... >>>Is Zorn a homosexual? I've been wondering this for about a year.<<< Somebody's horny. - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 18:17:44 -0500 From: "Zachary Steiner" Subject: RE: I gotta ask... I think he was tipped off by Zorn's fashion sense... Zach - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 18:18:42 -0500 From: Rich Williams Subject: Re: I gotta ask... >on 2/27/02 2:10 PM, Andrew at ahorton@vt.edu wrote: > >> Is Zorn a homosexual? I've been wondering this for about a year. >> >> Please, no "why should it matter" or indignant responses.....i'm just >> genuinely curious. >> >> andrew >> >> >> - >> >By all accounts, the Z digs chicks You mean the graffitti on the mens room wall at Tonic isn't True?? ;-) Rich (who has wondered whether people who are willing to ask a 3rd person about a total strangers sexuality would have the nerve to walk up to that person and pose the same question to them directly) (BTW, I'm not indignant, just curious) - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 17:09:10 -0800 (PST) From: William Crump Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #799 Remco wrote: >>I have this slight fear, that, in this really good book, you will read many things you have read elsewhere. << Well, yes. I would hope so. I would like an exhaustive biography, with nothing left out just because it's been previously published. Everything I'm familiar with about him previously has either lacked depth (Michael Gray's "Mother!") or breadth (Nigey Lennon's "I was Frank's lover" book), or even worse, had a socio-political axe to grind, like "The Negative Dialectics of Poodle Play." Isn't there some Richard Ellmann (most excellent biographer of Oscar Wilde and, I think, James Joyce) out there for Frank? Skip wrote: >>As for a really good exhaustive FZ bio, I don't think it's something that will likely happen in Gail's lifetime, if you know what I mean.<< >>As for one where all the stories are accurate, a few ex Mothers are going to have to moderate the vitriol before we get anything other than unflattering tales about FZ. Ray Collins is particularly harsh, which is a shame, because he was there before the beginning.<< That's why it would be so valuable to do the research NOW, because so many of the principals are still alive and can lend perspective not only to FZ's life, but also to why people around him may have parted ways with him acrimoniously. Motorhead's still alive, right? He was in Frank's circle of friends (or "people-Frank-used," depending on your POV) as far back as '62 or earlier. Don Van Vliet needs to be interviewed, his siblings need to be found if they're still alive, etc. etc. As for Gail... I know Frank said near his death that he didn't care how or whether he was remembered by future generations, but I can see that Gail would care. That's a tough one. Has she expressed a specific concern or reason for refusal? Efren wrote: >>I really think a very good Zappa biography already exists: Neil Slaven's "Electric Don Quixote". << I haven't seen this one, but the title gives me pause. To quote Dan Aykroyd way back when, "With a name like 'Mangled Baby Ducks,' this has GOT to be incredible jam!" Such a low-grade pun on one of FZ's song titles makes me worry that the book itself might not try very hard. But I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt. I hate to go on and on about this, but I can't help but think that posterity is running out of time on getting the truest account of FZ's life and work. I don't know why I'm getting in such a twist...I haven't listened to any post-Mothers work in years. Wait, I take that back... I still enjoy listening to Lather. William Crump __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion! http://greetings.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V3 #800 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com