From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #869 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Saturday, March 30 2002 Volume 03 : Number 869 In this issue: - Re: white trash Re: white trash Re: white trash why is music needed? Re: Zony Mash Dave Douglas press Re: Frisell Highly recommended [was RE: music defined (indeterminacy)] - long Re: Frisell Re: why is music needed? Richard Pinhas and Schizotrope Morton Feldman & Edgar Varese Re: Morton Feldman & Edgar Varese ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1904 03:31:31 +0100 From: duncan youngerman Subject: Re: white trash What about the great music that's come out of "white trash" (from Elvis to Eminem by way of such varied people as Janis Joplin, Dr John, Johnny Cash, the Allman bros., Jaco Pastorius, Stevie Ray Vaughan, the Ramones or Nirvana) from its close relations to lower-class black society and music? And the contradiction of that fact with the blanket assimilation of white trash with bigotery. Not only does a large segment of "white trash" population identify with blacks, but they often don't seem to know that they're not black! D. > > > > Actually, I fit squarely into the "white trash" demographic. I'm not gonna > be the most objective guy on this topic. I come from a low-middle-class > background, went to high a school that could have been the prototype for > WAYNE'S WORLD, never went to college, drank an awful lot of beer (until I > cut out alcohol entirely), listen to country music, worked in factories, and > all that good stuff. Do I know my share of "white trash" racists? yes. Do > I know racists from other backgrounds? Any white guy in Philly who played > jazz for money was going to see that (and, even more predominantly, ageism) > up close. Do I know my share of "white trash" folks who object strenuously > to racism? Tons. Do I laugh at Jeff Foxworthy? Often enough. > > I agree with John Water -- that it's the only PC racial epithet left to > throw around. > > sh - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:02:55 -0800 From: skip Heller Subject: Re: white trash on 2/6/40 12:59 AM, duncan youngerman at y-man@wanadoo.fr wrote: > What about the great music that's come out of "white trash" (from Elvis to > Eminem > by way of such varied people as Janis Joplin, Dr John, Johnny Cash, the Allman > bros., Jaco Pastorius, Stevie Ray Vaughan, the Ramones or Nirvana) from its > close > relations to lower-class black society and music? And the contradiction of > that > fact with the blanket assimilation of white trash with bigotery. > Not only does a large segment of "white trash" population identify with > blacks, > but they often don't seem to know that they're not black! > D. > >> People without a lot of money and influence in America often have two things in common: 1. They identify with each other, to varying degrees. Example -- the Italian kids in South Philly when I was growing up listened exclusively to black music (except Sinatra and Martin). Why? Because going to schooldances was the only economically feasible social gathering option, especially one with potentially sexual consequences. Boston, Led Zep, or whatever other corpo rock didn't figure in, because it wasn't dancable, and therefore offered no opportunities to mingle with the opposite sex. This rendered that stuff useless to those guys. The R&B of the time was extremely black (espec P-Funk), but, since the Italian guys had social dancing (and the music that comes with it) as such a huge part of their lifestyle, it gave them avenues of black culture with which they could relate (another reason we need music, by the way). 2. Poor people in the USA are lumped together. When you hear about "the underpriveledged" and how education needs to be improved for them, it's usually in the context of some kinds of sweeping generalization. But I've noticed that the sons and daughters of coal miners in Harlan County have different challenges facing them than kids in Compton. The tools they'll need to make better lives for themselves differ. This could needlessly tip off a big discussion about the death of regionalism in America, but the point is the same. Balck, white, brown -- it doesn't matter what color you are. Power in America responds to green. As Woody Guthrie reminded us, "you won;t find it so hot/if you ain't got the do-re-mi". If you ain't got it, your problems as individuals will not be taken care of. You're just part of a big group with no power. sh - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:03:35 +0000 From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: white trash From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Patrice (wondering if we are living in the same country). - ------------------- Well, I'm guessing Patrice that you are a French expat living in the states. I, on the other hand, am an American expat living in Korea. That must literally mean we aren't living in the same country. But maybe you understand the term better than I. Toqueville didn't do too bad either for a French analyst of the states. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:33:19 -0800 From: "gorilla thing" Subject: why is music needed? >------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:51:25 +0000 From: >"Bill Ashline" Subject: Re: why do we need music In >answer to the question, go without anything from your music collection for >fifteen months and see how you react. When I first went to Asia, that's >what I had to do, and I can't describe the joy I felt when I got back to my >collection and started listening to it again. I vowed it would never happen >again as long as I live. If you can't do such a thing, try using your >imagination< That is how the question arose from a week long camping trip w/ out any electrics and even by the first night we were singing songs we grow up w/ and by the end up the trips lyrics were buzzing in our heads like mad. I mean even monks "Uhm". Chad I don't know really if the brain just likes to be lullaby or what, but there seems to be something deep down beyond our understanding that we, for the most part get hooked on music in such a way that it efforts us so much. I've never really found a answer that I've been happy w/. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:47:36 +0000 From: mr.dave@attbi.com Subject: Re: Zony Mash I second that - the Zony Mash studio CDs are great from a technical point of view. Zony Mash is essentially a bar band though, and definitely at their best when they have a little room to stretch out. For those who haven't heard any of the live boots that have been floating around, the new Zony Mash "Live In Seattle" CD will rectify the situation. It was recorded at a series of shows last summer, and I must say that it sounds terrific! It's very representative of the current show they're putting on. Release date is May 28th, but I might have a few copies to sell soon at the website, www.waynehorvitz.com. By the way, I think of Zony Mash as being much less a high-concept band than Pigpen was, but no less enjoyable as a concert experience. I was glad to get a few chances to see Pigpen while they were still around, but now I think that Zony Mash has developed into every bit as good a band. Dave > One thing that is worth mentioning concerning Zony Mash is their ability to > really stretch any of their compositions. This is definitely not apparent in > their records and may be the reason of your critic. Pigpen was Horvitz' band > to play in rock clubs (since this is what Seattle is famous for). I guess > that moving to Seattle in the early 90's might have been hard from a playing > point of view. With Pigpen he started to get involved with the local scene > and this jumpstarted many of his collaborations. I also feel that Pigpen > records are more representative of the band performances than Zony Mash. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:54:20 -0800 From: Jeff Caltabiano Subject: Dave Douglas press His New Quintet is playing L.A. next week... http://www.newtimesla.com/issues/2002-03-28/calendar.html/1/index.html http://www.laweekly.com/picks/#jazz - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:44:22 -0800 From: "s~Z" Subject: Re: Frisell >>>The last one that floored me was THIS LAND. Still my favorite, along with the live trio disc of him and Joey & Kermit.<<< Seeing him at Santa Monica's At My Place with Joey, Kermit, and Hank Roberts remains tied for first with a handful of concerts that completely electrified me from first note to last. And that solo on one of Previte's earlier recordings, the piece that was composed with Frisell in mind. Stunning. ('The Voice' on Claude's Late Morning.) - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:50:20 -0500 From: "Steve Smith" Subject: Highly recommended [was RE: music defined (indeterminacy)] - long For the record, since it's me under discussion, I'll just point out that I did, in fact, include Cannibal Ox in my preposterously long list of the best releases of 2001. (It might have been easy to miss in that context!) I did and do recommend it, but I can certainly understand your not caring for it. I've just seen an instrumental version of the disc in stores in recent weeks, so if the rappers were not to your liking but you enjoyed the beats, here's your chance. And if you want to use it for karaoke, that's probably cool, too. On the other hand, I distinctly remember cLOUDEAD being highly recommended by people whose opinions I hold in high regard, so I rushed right out and bought it. And I have to report that I had no use for it whatsoever. So yes, clearly, personal taste is certainly going to play a major role in any aesthetic evaluation of what is and is not successful art. Someone recently lamented the dearth of personal "recent listening" lists 'round these parts, so I'll just jump and and mention a few recent things I've been spinning madly of late: Tony Oxley B.I.M.P. quartet: 'Floating Phantoms' (A/L/L) - The initial release from a new offshoot of FMP features much the same group that recorded 'The Tony Oxley Quartet' for Incus some years back, but here violinist Phil Wachsmann replaces Derek Bailey. The textures are more spare as a result, but there's certainly no lack of activity. Oxley's style is fairly predictable by now (and that's NOT a condemnation - I'd say the same of Bailey, and I still buy disc after disc by both - there's a certain comfort in familiarity), so the majority of the novelty lies with the other three participants. Pat Thomas spend more time on piano during this outing than the previous disc, though he's a spare, undemonstrative player. Matt Wand sends sampled noises and voices (one sounding rather like Bailey's, in fact) whooshing around the soundstage, while Wachsmann goes back and forth from straight violin to electrified violin to more abstracted electronics. To paraphrase a famous maxim, for those who enjoy this kind of music, this is the kind of music that they enjoy. And I have been enjoying it quite a bit. L. Stinkbug: 'The Allure of Roadside Curios' (Starlight Furniture Co.) - Guitarist G.E. Stinson, formerly of Windham Hill new agers Shadowfax, has taken an increasingly abstract and aggressive approach to improvised music for the last several years. Here, he's heard in four freeform sprawls with fellow Angeleno guitar hero Nels Cline; Stinson's astringent textural washes make a fine foil for Cline's more linear squiggles. Electric bassist Steuart Liebig and drummer Scott Amendola support the chaotic proceedings with gusto. J.S. Bach: Sonatas for Violin and Harpsichord (Sony Classical) - Italian violinist Giuliano Carmignola has made his reputation over the last two years with unbelievably fiery recordings of concertos by Vivaldi, including the most compelling recording of the Four Seasons I've ever heard (and one that, improbably, I continue to listen to repeatedly). Ironically, his take on the Bach sonatas is quite the opposite of his improvisatory glee in Vivaldi: here, accompanied by harpsichordist Andrea Marcon (who led the orchestra in the Vivaldi discs), he's more reverant. He plays with skill, poise, and incredible beauty. It's been a good year for recordings of these pieces, but Carmignola's stand among the finest. Hugh Le Caine: Compositions Demonstrations 1946-1974 (EMF) - A fairly mind-blowing collection of short tracks by the Canadian scientist, musician and instrument builder. Includes his famous "Dripsody" (90 seconds of dizzying melody created by varying the speed of a recording of drops of water, offered in both mono and stereo versions), plus similar experiments and achingly sincere performances of such chestnuts as the Rhapsody in Blue and a string quartet movement by Gluck performed on the "Sackbut Synthesizer." It's like Edison channeling the Residents, or something like that. Arch Enemy: 'Wages of Sin' (Century Media) - Archetypal Swedish melodic death metal, picking up where 'Heartwork'-era Carcass left off and sounding somewhat similar to At the Gates and In Flames (though far harder than the latter - ick), led by guitarists Michael Ammott (Carnage, Carcass, Spiritual Beggars) and brother Chris. This is easily their best disc to date: they still bear maximal firepower, but there's also a real subtlety and sensitivity in some of their stuff that reminds me a bit of "musicians' bands" like Opeth. Oh, and their new singer, well, she looks a bit like Jenna Jameson and sounds a lot like Jeff Walker (Carcass). What a trip. Various Artists: 'Global Accordion' (Wergo) - A celebration of the squeezebox in all its iterations, in 26 nicely remastered 78 rpm recordings from 1927-48, representing musical traditions from Puerto Rico, Ireland, France, Turkey, South Africa, Poland, Madagascar, Texas, Louisiana and much, much more. Honorable mentions: Hans Werner Henze: Requiem (Sony Classical, OOP) Johanssen/Dorner/Neumann: 'Barcelona Series' (hatOLOGY) Ellery Eskelin: '12 (+1) Imaginary Views' (hatOLOGY) Guillermo E. Brown: 'Soul at the Hands of the Machine' (Thirsty Ear) Burnt by the Sun: 'Soundtrack to the Personal Revolution' (Relapse) King Crimson: 'Live in Nashville, TN 2001' (King Crimson Collectors Club) Cannibal Corpse: 'Gore Obsessed' (Metal Blade) The Crown: 'Crowned in Terror' (Metal Blade) Mastodon: 'Lifesblood' (Relapse) Entombed: 'Morning Star' (Koch) Geirr Tveitt: A Hundred Hardanger Tunes Suites 2 & 5 (Naxos) Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Debussy, Pelleas et Melisande - Von Otter, Holzmair, French Natl Orch/Haitink (Naive) - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:06:40 -0800 From: skip Heller Subject: Re: Frisell on 3/29/02 11:44 AM, s~Z at keithmar@msn.com wrote: >>>> The last one that floored me was THIS LAND. Still my favorite, > along with > the live trio disc of him and Joey & Kermit.<<< > > Seeing him at Santa Monica's At My Place with Joey, Kermit, and > Hank Roberts remains tied for first with a handful of concerts > that completely electrified me from first note to last. And that > solo on one of Previte's earlier recordings, the piece that was > composed with Frisell in mind. Stunning. ('The Voice' on Claude's > Late Morning.) > > > - > anyone remember Frisell's playing on Eberhard Weber's LATER THAT EVENING? That's where and when I got hooked. skip h - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 20:07:45 -0800 From: " A.VanValin" Subject: Re: why is music needed? - ----- Original Message ----- From: "gorilla thing" Subject: why is music needed? > I was curious since your our on the subject of 'what music is' > I thought I'd also add why do you think we 'need' it. Hmmm. I haven't seen any answers that include the social aspect of music. So I'd like to throw this into the mix: For one thing, I see people use music to help define themselves and their places in the world. Mostly in the identity-acquisition years in highschool I guess, but I still see it all the time. People often wear their affiliations with pride, as a concert shirt or a ridiculously loud car stereo or whatever. And I have to admit, sometimes (in some senses) "musical taste" is a quick and accurate litmus test. At the same time, it just-plain-feels-good to listen to music with other people. Isn't part of the charm of live music that other people are present? As much as I like my CDs and as much as I like my girlfriend, once in a while it would be nice if I could enjoy both at the same time (I'm doomed in that sense I suppose). And third: for people to live in society they need to be able to pick up on all sortsa details about consensus and context and all that, and for those who are kinda slow music gives a set of cues. It tells you how to feel when an army marches by, or when a CG dinosaur eats a mild mannered scientist or whatever. van - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 09:52:35 +0000 From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Richard Pinhas and Schizotrope I've found out that the second of the Schizotrope series was released awhile ago on Cuneiform. Does anyone have it? Any comments? Pinhas also played with Heldon. Does anyone have any of their stuff? Any recommendations and is there stuff still available? Thanks. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 09:54:22 +0000 From: "Bill Ashline" Subject: Morton Feldman & Edgar Varese Probably been covered a million times here, but perhaps someone could recommend where to start with Morton Feldman and Edgar Varese. Is Varese in print anywhere? Thanks. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 06:16:49 -0500 From: "Caleb T. Deupree" Subject: Re: Morton Feldman & Edgar Varese At 09:54 AM 3/30/02 +0000, Bill Ashline wrote: >Probably been covered a million times here, but perhaps someone could >recommend where to start with Morton Feldman and Edgar Varese. Is Varese in >print anywhere? Thanks. If you like solo piano, Louis Goldstein has a Triadic Memories paired with Cage's One5, and excellent renditions of both pieces. This is a two-cd set, where Triadic Memories takes a disc and a half. This is a much longer (and therefore slower) rendition of other versions, which are all on single discs. In general, I prefer his long piano works to the short ones, and I understand that John Tilbury's 4cd set of his piano music is also excellent. The new string quartet release on Hat is also superb, although at four cds and five hours, it may be a little intimidating. For his orchestral work, I'd recommend Neither, his 'opera' with the libretto by Samuel Beckett. It's nearly a last work for both men, a very lush, almost romantic setting of a verse that Beckett sent him on a post card, so it's certainly not an opera in the typical sense of the word. And I generally don't like opera, but the soprano part (the only voice) is well blended into the orchestral sound. The only Feldman I've heard that I haven't liked is the set of pieces for solo instrument and orchestra that he did in mid-career, things like Piano and Orchestra, Oboe and Orchestra, etc. I'll leave the Varese to someone else, although I think Boulez has a complete works set that has an excellent reputation. - -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V3 #869 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". 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