From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #890 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Friday, April 26 2002 Volume 03 : Number 890 In this issue: - im an idiot (was 666) Beastly numbers Re: Beastly numbers Re: 666 Re: 666 Re: 666 666: A Pedantic Moment with Mr. Selvig Fwd: 666: A Pedantic Moment with Mr. Selvig transcribing Re: 666 Re: 666 Re: 666 Re: Wanted: Bay Area recommendations, May 29-June 3 Re: Wanted: Bay Area recommendations, May 29-June 3 Re: Tzadik News Re: 666 Antw: Antw: VPRO (was: Zony Mash returns) Re: Wanted: Bay Area recommendations, May 29-June 3 Wilco in Schenectady Re: Wanted: Bay Area recommendations, May 29-June 3 Re: Wanted: Bay Area recommendations, May 29-June 3 Re: Cobra in SF ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 15:28:38 EDT From: RainDog138@aol.com Subject: im an idiot (was 666) i knew i didn't understand what you were asking. yours in foolishness, - -mt - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 14:56:07 -0500 From: Robert Pleshar Subject: Beastly numbers I know the NT was in some form of ancient Greek originally, so I have no way to confirm this, short of learning Greek which seems unlikely given my current schedule. But... I recall reading somewhere (that really clears it up and is a source whose veracity must remain unquestioned, eh?) that in the original Greek, the number was actually represented as something like the product (probably not that word though) of 6 by 6 taken again by 6. or (6x6)x6 or 216! Now, I have no way of knowing if this is true or not or just some myth making on top of myth making, but what the heck. Also if I recall correctly, some punk rock band put out an album titled "668 - Neighbor of the Beast" which is pretty great, too. Rob - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:26:19 -0500 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Beastly numbers On Thu, Apr 25, 2002 at 02:56:07PM -0500, Robert Pleshar wrote: > I know the NT was in some form of ancient Greek originally, so I have no way to > confirm this, short of learning Greek which seems unlikely given my current > schedule. But... I recall reading somewhere (that really clears it up and is a > source whose veracity must remain unquestioned, eh?) that in the original > Greek, the number was actually represented as something like > the product (probably not that word though) of 6 by 6 taken again by 6. > or (6x6)x6 or 216! Well, explains why so many Web developers curse the Netscape color cube! - -- | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.josephzitt.com/ | | http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/ http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt/ | | == New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems == | | Comma / Gray Code Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 17:31:58 -0400 From: Michael Slone Subject: Re: 666 > On Thu, 25 Apr 2002 20:16:36 +0200 (MET DST) Stephen Fruitman wrote: > Just curious, does anybody know how 666 was written in the oldest version of > the Bible known (since I doubt that the decimal system was used)? The Stephanus (1550) edition of the Textus Receptus has 666 written as: chi xi stigma The Westcott-Hort (1881) edition has: exakosioi exEkonta ex (where e=epsilon, x=xi, o=omicron, E=eta) (Source for all of this information: http://www.blueletterbible.org, looking at Revelation 13:18.) I don't know on which manuscripts these editions were based. I also don't know Greek, but it appears the former is written as a number, while the second is written in words. - -- Michael Slone - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 18:04:17 -0500 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: 666 On Thu, Apr 25, 2002 at 05:31:58PM -0400, Michael Slone wrote: > The Stephanus (1550) edition of the Textus Receptus has 666 written as: > > chi xi stigma I suspect that should be "sigma". The stigmata show up elsewhere :-) - -- | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.josephzitt.com/ | | http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/ http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt/ | | == New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems == | | Comma / Gray Code Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 18:14:45 -0400 From: Rick Lopez Subject: Re: 666 on 02.04.25 7:04 PM, Joseph Zitt at jzitt@metatronpress.com wrote: > On Thu, Apr 25, 2002 at 05:31:58PM -0400, Michael Slone wrote: > >> The Stephanus (1550) edition of the Textus Receptus has 666 written as: >> >> chi xi stigma > > I suspect that should be "sigma". The stigmata show up elsewhere :-) You say a stigma, I say stigmata, let's call the whole thing off... - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:53:10 -0700 From: Chris Selvig Subject: 666: A Pedantic Moment with Mr. Selvig Thanks for the greekbible.com link... so I dragged out my Bible & figured out that the passage is from Revelation 13:18, which in my translation says "This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666." I then hit greekbible.com, looked up the passage, and grabbed Liddell & Scott's Greek-English Lexicon, and it does indeed translate to "six hundred sixty-six," written out. I'm pretty sure the Greeks used sexigecimals, based on 60, rather than decimals. Now then, back to "work." Chris Selvig - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 20:04:18 EDT From: Eriedell@aol.com Subject: Fwd: 666: A Pedantic Moment with Mr. Selvig - --part1_4d.1d2dc545.29f9f382_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've heard that 661 was also used as a "number of the beast." Anyone no where this comes from? - --part1_4d.1d2dc545.29f9f382_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-za04.mx.aol.com (rly-za04.mail.aol.com [172.31.36.100]) by air-za03.mail.aol.com (v84.16) with ESMTP id MAILINZA33-0425195331; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 19:53:31 -0400 Received: from lists.xmission.com (lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7]) by rly-za04.mx.aol.com (v85.3) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINZA45-0425195306; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 19:53:06 -0400 Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.12 #2) id 170t2b-0002N1-00 for zorn-list-gooutt@lists.xmission.com; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 17:52:45 -0600 Received: from [208.201.224.39] (helo=b.smtp-out.sonic.net) by lists.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 170t2Y-0002Mw-00 for zorn-list@lists.xmission.com; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 17:52:42 -0600 Received: (qmail 25300 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2002 23:46:57 -0000 Received: from ultra.sonic.net (208.201.224.22) by b.smtp-out.sonic.net with SMTP; 25 Apr 2002 23:46:57 -0000 Received: from eightball.sonic.net (d129.nas25.sonic.net [209.204.154.129]) by ultra.sonic.net (8.11.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id g3PNqeq23494 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:52:40 -0700 X-envelope-info: Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020425163624.00a2ba00@pop.sonic.net> X-Sender: selvig@pop.sonic.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:53:10 -0700 To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com From: Chris Selvig Subject: 666: A Pedantic Moment with Mr. Selvig Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Thanks for the greekbible.com link... so I dragged out my Bible & figured out that the passage is from Revelation 13:18, which in my translation says "This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666." I then hit greekbible.com, looked up the passage, and grabbed Liddell & Scott's Greek-English Lexicon, and it does indeed translate to "six hundred sixty-six," written out. I'm pretty sure the Greeks used sexigecimals, based on 60, rather than decimals. Now then, back to "work." Chris Selvig - - - --part1_4d.1d2dc545.29f9f382_boundary-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 20:12:29 EDT From: Eriedell@aol.com Subject: transcribing I was singing along to Torture Garden when I thought I'd go ahead and transcibe Yamataka Eye's vocals but I'm stuck on Speedfreaks. Does he have water in his mouth at about 29 seconds? How do I notate that? thanks for any help, andy roberts - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 20:33:53 -0400 From: Michael Slone Subject: Re: 666 Joseph Zitt wrote: > I suspect that should be "sigma". The stigmata show up elsewhere :-) I should have put [sic] there. The character in question is stigma, not sigma. The letterforms are similar (stigma looks like the end-of-word form of sigma); stigma is apparently a sigma-tau ligature. By the way, the source for the Greek text failed to include aspiration marks---the text would better be transliterated as hexakosioi hexEkonta hex than the way I had previously transliterated it. - -- Michael Slone - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 17:40:17 -0700 From: "A.VanValin" Subject: Re: 666 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Fruitman" Subject: 666 >I once heard ... you transliterate the Greek for "Nero >Emperor" to Hebrew, the combination of letters translates into 306 + 360 >(or vice-versa) numerically, and the result = 666. In Latin or Roman, letters of the alphabet were used to represent numbers. D = 500, C = 100, L = 50, X = 10, V = 5, I = 1. D + C + L + X + V + I = 666 FILII VICARIVS DEI is Latin for Vicar of Christ or of the Son of God. I + L + I + I + V + I + C + I + V + D + I = 666 F + A + R + S + E = 0 In Chaldee some of the letter values are: S = 60, T = 400, U = 6, and R = 200. STUR = 666 Stur is Chaldean for Saturn the mythical god. Saturnia was the original name of Rome. More at http://www.hwcn.org/~al889/relgn/www666.html Have fun, van - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 20:35:15 -0500 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: 666 On Thu, Apr 25, 2002 at 05:40:17PM -0700, A.VanValin wrote: > In Chaldee some of the letter values are: > S = 60, T = 400, U = 6, and R = 200. > STUR = 666 > Stur is Chaldean for Saturn the mythical god. > Saturnia was the original name of Rome. Hence Neil Young's apocalyptic warning: RUST never sleeps! - -- | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.josephzitt.com/ | | http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/ http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt/ | | == New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems == | | Comma / Gray Code Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 18:24:22 -0700 (PDT) From: sooooo spicy Subject: Re: Wanted: Bay Area recommendations, May 29-June 3 - --0-772813778-1019784262=:88598 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii if you came 2 days earlier you could see the chicago underground duo (27th) as well as a perfomance of cobra (28th) but check out www.bayimproviser.com for improvised music as well as: http://jon.luini.com/thelist/ for an incomplete but broad listing of lots of shows and then websites for venues... like www.bottomofthehill.com, www.gamh.com, www.cafedunord.com those are the place i usually end up... oh yah... and www.23five.org is an organization that holds sound art performances - --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more - --0-772813778-1019784262=:88598 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

if you came 2 days earlier you could see the chicago underground duo (27th) as well as a perfomance of cobra (28th)

but check out www.bayimproviser.com for improvised music

as well as: http://jon.luini.com/thelist/ for an incomplete but broad listing of lots of shows

and then websites for venues... like www.bottomofthehill.com, www.gamh.com, www.cafedunord.com

those are the place i usually end up...

oh yah... and www.23five.org is an organization that holds sound art performances


Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more - --0-772813778-1019784262=:88598-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 02:12:54 EDT From: Fastian@aol.com Subject: Re: Wanted: Bay Area recommendations, May 29-June 3 << if you came 2 days earlier you could see the chicago underground duo (27th) as well as a perfomance of cobra (28th) but check out www.bayimproviser.com for improvised music >> I agree that's the website to check out but he wants to know about the end of May not the end of April. Still a little early to know about all the shows. Going to the Chicago Undergoround duo myself. Should be a good show. Cheers, John Threadgould - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:16:37 +0200 From: ecirtap@bluemail.ch Subject: Re: Tzadik News Sounds great, thanks for sharing your thoughts. Definitely on my wish list. patRice np: The Cure, Bloodflowers, nr: Irvine Welsh, Glue > ><< has anyone heard Gould's Adonai in Dub, on which Jamie collaborated? >> >Adonai in Dub is a very interesting album, combining Jewish prayers with= > >reggae and then mixed in Dub. Perfect for the Rasta loving Jew, but eve= n > >non-Jew's who enjoy Dub could get behind this album. Recommended. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:35:15 +0000 From: "Arthur Gadney" Subject: Re: 666 "Did Adam and Eve Have Navels?" by Martin Gardner had a great chapter about this type of stuff. It's a very good book. I recommend it. Cheers, >From: "A.VanValin" >To: Zorn List >Subject: Re: 666 >Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 17:40:17 -0700 > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Stephen Fruitman" >Subject: 666 > > > > > >I once heard ... you transliterate the Greek for "Nero > >Emperor" to Hebrew, the combination of letters translates into 306 + 360 > >(or vice-versa) numerically, and the result = 666. > > In Latin or Roman, letters of the alphabet were used to represent >numbers. > D = 500, C = 100, L = 50, X = 10, V = 5, I = 1. > D + C + L + X + V + I = 666 > FILII VICARIVS DEI is Latin for Vicar of Christ or of the Son of God. > I + L + I + I + V + I + C + I + V + D + I = 666 > F + A + R + S + E = 0 > > > In Chaldee some of the letter values are: > S = 60, T = 400, U = 6, and R = 200. > STUR = 666 > Stur is Chaldean for Saturn the mythical god. > Saturnia was the original name of Rome. > >More at http://www.hwcn.org/~al889/relgn/www666.html > >Have fun, >van > > > >- > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 15:36:39 -0700 From: "Marcel Kranendonk" Subject: Antw: Antw: VPRO (was: Zony Mash returns) The VPRO broadcast and realaudio for the Zony Mash and other gigs start in may. The schedule is: may 3rd: DD Jackson Trio may 7th: Eskelin/parkins/Black may 10: Jasper van 't Hof/David Friedman Trio may 14: Marc Ribot & Cubans Postizos may 17: Don Byron sextet may 21 Seafood may 24 Zapp Stringqt may 28: Zony Mash You can find the Real Audio on: www.vpro.nl/jazzopvier On the site look for: Is Dit Nog Wel Jazz and than look for the broadcast of your desire. Have fun! Marcel - ---------- >Van: Dgasque@aol.com >Aan: info@sjujazz.demon.nl >Onderwerp: Re: Antw: VPRO (was: Zony Mash returns) >Datum: vri, 5 apr 2002 11:16 > > In a message dated 4/5/02 8:01:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, > info@sjujazz.demon.nl writes: > > << In the mean time the VPRO chanched there website. > I'll figure it out and let you know in time. >> > > Thanks! > > -- > Dave - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 17:24:19 +0200 From: "Remco Takken" Subject: Re: Wanted: Bay Area recommendations, May 29-June 3 > > Any live music, events, etc. that I shouldn't miss while I'm there? > Pollstar > > is next to useless for...you know...that special Zornlist flavor of event. See: http://www.bayimproviser.com/calendar.asp Best listing so far for that period is: Sunday, Jun 2 2002 8:00 PM ACME Observatory at Tuva Space 3192 Adeline Berkeley CA Transparent Blue [from vancouver, b.c., canada] a trio of sax w/fx, guitar w/fx, and drums playing the experimental/progressive/jazz/rock kind of thing these guys are good! and Ben Goldberg [clarinets] with John Schott [guitar] rob sudduth [saxophone] devin hoff [bass] Ches Smith [drums] - -- Dan Plonsey - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:15:54 EDT From: Samerivertwice@aol.com Subject: Wilco in Schenectady Does anyone on this list live in the Schenectady, NY area? If so, please email me offlist. I need tickets for tomorrow night's Wilco show but they can only be bought in person and I can't get there today (it's a three hour drive and I have to stay at work). I've already called the school's events office and offered bribes, pleaded, begged and threatened. No luck. Please email me offlist if you can help. Thanks!! tom ______________________________________________________________________ Phil Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber lately, and enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to music." - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 08:19:16 -0700 From: skip Heller Subject: Re: Wanted: Bay Area recommendations, May 29-June 3 those in the know will tell ya -- do NOT miss a chance to hear Ben Goldberg. skip h - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 09:15:47 -0700 (PDT) From: SUGAR in their vitamins? Subject: Re: Wanted: Bay Area recommendations, May 29-June 3 http://www.foopee.com/punk/the-list/ best, Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:03:27 -0700 From: David Slusser Subject: Re: Cobra in SF On April 28 at 8:00pm, The Lab, in conjunction with ACME Observatory Contemporary Performance Series presents John Zorn's Cobra produced by David Slusser prompted by William Winant and The Brown Bunny Ensemble at The Lab, 2948 16th Street, San Francisco, CA 94103. Admission is $7 to $10, sliding scale. The Lab and ACME Observatory are proud to present an all-star group of the Bay Area's best improvisers, organized by David Slusser, doing John Zorn's best-known `game piece', Cobra. The Bay Area has the largest group of Cobra veterans outside of downtown NYC, and they'll be prompted by William Winant, one of the world's premiere new music percussionists, and long time Zorn associate. Slusser explains Cobra thus: Bearing some relationship to a "capture-the-flag" kid's game, John Zorn boiled down a lot of improvisational strategies and organized them in arrays of systems that could easily be cued with simple gestures. There is not a conductor, per se, but a prompter, who recognizes calls made by members of the ensemble. The prompter then holds up the corresponding, color-coded cue card for that operation, so all the ensemble can see and prepare, then gives the downbeat for it to occur. The score lists the action for that card, and the hand signal the ensemble member must give to request it. It's up to the members of the ensemble to shape and guide the piece, and the competing strategies give each reading a unique form. The play starts with the prompter waiting for ensemble members to raise their hands with a suggested cue. The prompter chooses someone; the player communicates by pointing to a body part from the score to indicate a certain improvisational system, with a number of fingers raised to define the action to be taken within the system. In some cases, the player also communicates specific players for that cue. When everybody's on board, the prompter lowers the card in a clear downbeat to start the music. It's immediately permitted, but not always good taste, for any player to now make another call. When to recognize the next call is the discretion of the prompter. The addition of Guerrilla Systems allows a player to become a renegade and play as he/she chooses, or to take on compadres and subvert the entire proceedings. Guerrilla Systems are halted by stealth from the rest of the ensemble in a throat slitting gesture to the prompter that must go undetected by the Guerillas. The game then takes up where it left off. The play ends with the cueing of one of three end cues, which the prompter will give three chances to be countermanded. A typical "Cobra" lasts anywhere from one to fifteen minutes, with several "Cobras" making up a performance. The performers confirmed for this performance include: Isaac Anderson - percussion Jen Baker - trombone Doug Carroll - cello India Cooke - violin Alvin Curran - electronics Tom Djll - trumpet Matt Ingalls - clarinet Kellsey Johaness - vibes Eric Kamm - percussion Camillo Landau - guitar Jacob Lindsay - clarinet Caroline Macintosh - cello Tom Nunn - electro acoustic percussion Bob Ostertag - electronics Tim Perkis - electronics Alwyn Quebideaux - guitar David Slusser - electronics, flute Ches Smith - percussion Toyoji Tomita - trombone Dillon Westbrooke - percussion William Winant - percussion Opening the program will be The Brown Bunny Ensemble, a flexible collective of composer/musicians that resist stylistic limitations. Exerting a large and variable sonic vocabulary, the Brown Bunny Ensemble constructs music that is beautiful, absurd, sever, challenging, and tuneful. Collectively and individually their music has been heard throughout North America, South America, and Europe. They often collaborate with distinguished guests from diverse fields, including Fred Frith, Luka Foss, Allan Kaprow, and Pauline Oliveros. $7-$10 sliding scale admission The LAB 2948 16th Street San Francisco, CA 94103 415.864.8855 The LAB is located at the corner of 16th Street and Capp (between Mission and South Van Ness) in San Francisco, about a block east of the 16th St Mission BART Station. - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V3 #890 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. 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