From: seanter@ix.netcom.com (Sean Terwilliger ) Subject: Hear No Evil Date: 01 Nov 1996 17:33:54 -0800 Hey, A local store here has bunches of copies of Laswell's fantastic Hear No Evil disc for 7.99 each (cut outs). I'd be happy to pick up and ship to anyone who might be missing this (maybe -imho- Laswell's finest work). This store also has fewer copies of SXL-Outlands. -Sean ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Spirer Subject: Re: Hear No Evil Date: 01 Nov 1996 21:25:30 -0800 At 05:33 PM 11/1/96 -0800, Sean Terwilliger wrote: >Hey, > >A local store here has bunches of copies of Laswell's fantastic Hear No >Evil disc for 7.99 each (cut outs). I'd be happy to pick up and ship to >anyone who might be missing this (maybe -imho- Laswell's finest work). >This store also has fewer copies of SXL-Outlands. This is an amazing release. I might point out that it is one of Bill's favorites. And Nicky Skopelitis, who plays guitar on it, told me that he thought it was the best thing he ever played on. So skip Sean's "imho" qualification, this is definitely worth buying. Also, _Outlands_ is a fascinating disc, with Ronald Shannon Jackson on drums, Aiyb Dieng on African percussion, a Korean percussion group, Bill and Shankar on electric violin. Somewhat frenetic (might appeal more to Zorn fans.) Both of these are at this time not scheduled for re-release, so pick them up. Jeff Spirer http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/ Axiom Records/Material Communications ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: seanter@ix.netcom.com (Sean Terwilliger ) Subject: Hear No Evil Date: 01 Nov 1996 17:33:54 -0800 Hey, A local store here has bunches of copies of Laswell's fantastic Hear No Evil disc for 7.99 each (cut outs). I'd be happy to pick up and ship to anyone who might be missing this (maybe -imho- Laswell's finest work). This store also has fewer copies of SXL-Outlands. -Sean ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dawnrazor@pacificnet.net Subject: Masada Date: 02 Nov 1996 15:30:35 -0800 Does anyone know if and when Masada is coming to Los Angeles? Thanks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pauljay@connexus.apana.org.au (Paul Jacobson) Subject: Re: Hear No Evil Date: 03 Nov 1996 11:14:39 +1100 Jeff Spirer wrote: > Also, _Outlands_ is a fascinating disc, with Ronald Shannon Jackson on > drums, Aiyb Dieng on African percussion, a Korean percussion group, Bill and > Shankar on electric violin. Somewhat frenetic (might appeal more to Zorn >fans.) > > Both of these are at this time not scheduled for re-release, so pick them up. I'd definitely second Jeff recomendation on _Outlands_ Online store Ponk Records had a good stock of _Into The Outlands_ at a reasonable price and from memory also had copies of _Hear No Evil_ (possibly on vinyl only) about two months ago. They also stocked a few other items that would be of interest to zorn-listers. They can be found at : http://www.ice.net/~ponk/index.htm I've had excellent service from them in the past. Peace Paul ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: martinj@SONOMA.EDU Subject: bootleg?? Date: 02 Nov 1996 22:13:21 -0800 (PST) Greetings all in Zornland, Is anyone who is attending the Nov. 15th Masada show planning on preserving the night on some sort of recorded medium? (tape, video camera...) If you are going to try, I would love to get a copy. I'm going to be there too, but alas, no video camera, or tape recorder. Josh Martin P.S. John ten Bosch is a great guy! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IOUaLive1@aol.com Subject: Masada in Philly Date: 03 Nov 1996 23:14:04 -0500 Just got back from the Masada concert in Philadelphia. It was strange for me seeing them in this context; it was really a "concert". 6 or 700 people in attendance, a fairly big auditorium, nice wide stage, bright lights on them, etc. This show was part of the "InterGalactic Jewish Music Festival". It was the regular version of Masada, with Dave Douglas, Joey, and I dont know who the bassist was, it wasn't Greg Cohen like the program said. Zorn always announces the names when he's ten feet away from a microphone, and the audience is applauding. Whoever he was, he was incredible. I also noticed in the program, the "selected discography" which listed records such as Alef, Beit, Gimel, Kristallnacht, Zohar, etc., and Masada Live- Jazz Door (Italy). Does John recommend this cd?? You would think he had a little input in the choosing of the selected discography for the program. John also seems to be going for a new look, he hasn't had a haircut in a long time. Give him a few more months, he'll be sporting a ponytail. IOUaLive1@aol.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DANIEL BITTON Subject: cosmojizmatism Date: 04 Nov 1996 10:11:11 -0500 (EST) Does anybody know anything about the workshop thing that's supposed to happen at noon at the Burlington Masada show on the 19th? How does that usually work? Do they give playing tips? Recitals of Samuel Beckett's Molloy? Lectures on international socialism? If anybody has a clue, please share it with me, I want to know if I should bring my horn. thanks ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew J. Wilson" Subject: Re: Hear No Evil Date: 04 Nov 1996 13:04:13 -0500 > Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 17:33:54 -0800 > From: Sean Terwilliger > > Hey, > > A local store here has bunches of copies of Laswell's fantastic Hear No > Evil disc for 7.99 each (cut outs). I'd be happy to pick up and ship to > anyone who might be missing this (maybe -imho- Laswell's finest work). > This store also has fewer copies of SXL-Outlands. > > -Sean Note that this CD is out of print so get it while you can. Andrew ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: landocal@mail.utexas.edu (Landon Thorpe) Subject: Re: Hear No Evil Date: 04 Nov 1996 18:52:56 -0500 >> Hey, >> >> A local store here has bunches of copies of Laswell's fantastic Hear No >> Evil disc for 7.99 each (cut outs). ^^^^^^^^ What are these? Thanks, Landon Thorpe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: gsg@juno.com Subject: test Date: 05 Nov 1996 20:09:35 PST this is only a test..... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DANIEL BITTON Subject: Re: test Date: 06 Nov 1996 08:55:55 -0500 (EST) YOU FAIL! On Tue, 5 Nov 1996 gsg@juno.com wrote: > this is only a test..... > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: martinj@SONOMA.EDU Subject: Re: test Date: 06 Nov 1996 10:12:11 -0800 (PST) a test of the emergency broadcasting system. In the event that this had been a real emergency, .... On Tue, 5 Nov 1996 gsg@juno.com wrote: > this is only a test..... > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: denman@pipeline.com (Denman Maroney) Subject: Liquid Audio Debuts Premier Music On Demand Solution for the Internet Date: 06 Nov 1996 21:54:26 GMT Thought you all would be interested in the following: In clari.biz.industry.media.entertainment.releases, C-bw@clari.net (Liquid Audio) wrote: > > REDWOOD CITY, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Nov. 4, 1996--Liquid >Audio today introduced a suite of software products that provides >the first-ever end-to-end solution for delivering and publishing >high-quality music over the Internet. This ground-breaking >technology gives music professionals the mastering tools needed to >optimize music content for the Internet, and provides consumers with >a media-rich browsing environment for sampling and purchasing music. >The products will debut on November 8th at the Audio Engineering >Society Convention in Los Angeles, and on the Internet at >www.liquidaudio.com and www.musicblvd.com. > "Liquid Audio's objective is to provide a means for music commerce >on the Internet that at once addresses the interests of the consumer, >the artist, and the music industry -- specifically, sound quality, >copyright protection, and secure management and tracking of online >purchases," stated Gerry Kearby, co-founder and CEO of Liquid Audio. >"Until now, these issues have been disregarded, leaving the massive >potential of the Internet as a vehicle for music publishing and >distribution virtually untapped. Our work with both Dolby Labs and >our partners in the music industry has resulted in a solution that >satisfies all of the interested parties, especially the music fans." > Liquid Audio's technology represents a major shift in the way music >is heard, sold, and delivered. The free Liquid MusicPlayer enables >users to stream near CD-quality music over the Internet, while >viewing lyrics, artwork, and liner notes. Future upgrades, to be >released in Q1 '97, will allow the online consumer to purchase the >music and print it directly to an audio cassette or recordable CD, >allowing for high quality playback on any standard cassette or CD >player. > Liquid Audio has already gained broad support from key proponents of >the pro audio, music, and computer industries. Ties with Dolby, >Intel, online service providers N2K, major recording artists such as >Sammy Hagar, and leading advanced software financier Hummer Winblad >Venture Partners are a testament to the significant impact Liquid >Audio's technology will have on digital music commerce. According to >Ann Winblad of Hummer Winblad, "The Internet has clearly achieved >critical mass as a new medium. Liquid Audio provides a missing piece >of ground-breaking technology and the products to move the music >experience into the digital age." > Utilizing an exclusive, enhanced version of Dolby Lab's proven audio >compression technology to guarantee delivery of the best sound, the >Liquid Audio software suite consists of three components: mastering >tools for content creation, playback tools for sampling, purchasing >and publishing, and audio delivery tools to complete the >client/server architecture. The Liquid MusicPlayer is available as >of November 8th for free download on the Internet, with upgrades to >be available in Q1 '97. Mastering and server tools will be available >later this year. > denman@pipeline.com maroney@dmbb.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Greg Mills Subject: Shankar Date: 06 Nov 1996 16:22:40 -0700 Hi yer Anyone out there know if Shankar's album "TOUCH ME THERE" is still in release? I fink it was orginally on Zappa's Bizarre label. Eat yerself fitter Greg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: slawlor Subject: forbidden fruit question Date: 06 Nov 1996 19:27:20 -0500 (EST) I was listen to forbidden fruit from the spilain cd and I was wondering if anyone could tell me what those loud noises are in parts of the song when he's playing around with the violins? The noises sound likesomething is being broken, maybe a violin or something. I don't know how else to describe thos strange sounds in this piece. Also, wouldn't this composition provide for an interesting study in a music theory or musicology course? scott K. Lawlor 3358 Prange Dr. Cuyahoga Falls, OH. 44223 Phone, 330-922-4895 http://w3.gwis.com/~slawlor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: martinj@SONOMA.EDU Subject: Re: Shankar Date: 06 Nov 1996 17:25:32 -0800 (PST) i don't know ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Peter T. Chen" Subject: Re: forbidden fruit question Date: 06 Nov 1996 18:15:14 -0800 >I was listen to forbidden fruit from the spilain cd and I was wondering >if anyone could tell me what those loud noises are in parts of the song >when he's playing around with the violins? The noises sound >likesomething is being broken, maybe a violin or something. This may be a stretch but I believe what you are referring to are the "pops" and "hits" that are being created by Christian Marclay on the Turntables. Part of the technique described for the piece is for Marclay to literally hit and scratch the turntable much like Rap DJ's do. And they amplified it quite a bit. Also, the recordings selected for turntable were all string pieces so not all the string sounds you hear are Kronos playing. > I don't know >how else to describe thos strange sounds in this piece. >Also, wouldn't this composition provide for an interesting study in a >music theory or musicology course? >scott K. Lawlor >3358 Prange Dr. >Cuyahoga Falls, OH. 44223 [...] It has. Down the street from you there in NE Ohio, Claudia MacDonald has been including Spillane as one part of the curriculum for study in her 20th Century Music course at the Oberlin Conservatory of Music. Though the only thing considered particularily remarkable about the recording are JZ's rapid time/style changes. I'm sure there's a few other schools... -Pete -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ " P E T E R T. C H E N p t c h e n @ s t a n f o r d . e d u " " Biological Sciences / University Libraries Phone: 4157257031 " " Stanford University FAX: 4157236132 " " ________________________ http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~prak " " now... p s y c h e d e l i c i z e d ! " "````````````````````````````````````''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: gsg@juno.com Subject: introduction..... Date: 06 Nov 1996 18:39:33 PST hello everyone, I appologize for the test message, I was having problems with my emailer, etc etc....won't happen again. anyway, my name is Geoff Gersh, i'm 23, a musican in the NY area, Yonkers to be exact. I was on this list a while ago but lost access when i graduated from school, didn't have email for a while. I had posted this message a while back, anyone interested in trading sheet music/recordings in exchange for Masada charts let me know, i have about 13-15 of them. I haven't checked out Masada in over a year! I'm looking forward to the Knitting Factory gigs in December...... I guess thats it for now....talk to everyone soon..... Geoff Gersh ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: br00361@binghamton.edu Subject: Frith about Zorn Date: 06 Nov 1996 22:46:29 -0500 (EST) I've been transcribing and translating, from the French, Fred Frith's long comments about Zorn, Zorn's music and their collaboration, on the occasion of an extraordinary duo concert by both in Oct. 8, 1988. My question is: does anybody in the list by any chance know about other declarations, statements, interviews, or articles about Zorn, by Frith or by other musicians who played with him or not ? I know David Bailey's chapter in his "Musical Improvision" (only on the latest edition, by DaCappo) but I would be interested about references of other similar writings by musicians. In the tape I have, Frith's comments about Zorn constitute a very interesting and in depth elaboration about his music, its meanings and its techniques. Frith speaks also about his own compositions and how he came to New York and met Zorn. His comments occupy about one third of their 90 minutes concert. I will be glad to E-mail copies of the translation to those interested as soon as I finish it. Requests and eventual responses to my question can be sent to my E-mail address, above, With thanks, Jose ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Leon Lee/SYBASE Subject: Human Feel3? Date: 07 Nov 1996 10:13:29 EDT Alright... somebody please say something more about the new Human Feel album. It's torturous just to hear that, "oh, it's they're best yet..." blah blah blah. I've asked for it at Amoeba (SF, CA) and it wasn't in the last time I checked. Track listing, catalog #, label, personnel (who is this singer i've been hearing about?) and all that schmazz. Thanks. BTW, can someone tape Masada4 for me? (just kiddin'). Leon MASADA in San Francisco. Yes! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Leon Lee/SYBASE Subject: review: Tim Berne/Jon Raskin Quartet in SF Date: 07 Nov 1996 10:51:59 EDT Tim Berne - alto & baritone sax Jon Raskin - alto, baritone and sopranino sax Michael Formanek - bass (I don't think I spelled his name right) Elliott Kavee - percussion @ Venue 9 Wednesday October 30th Jon Raskin is of the ROVA Sax Quartet. This show was in a series billed as 'ROVA doing their own ensembles'. Elliott Kavee is one of the Bay Area's most widely utilized improvising percussionist, probably most well known for his playing in the Clubfoot Orchestra -- I believe most of the tunes were Berne tunes since they are closely related to the recent Bloodcount compositions with it's long themes and extended improvisation through drones and long sustained tones. Many of the pieces seemed to be written for paired bari's and altos. The saxes sounded great together, bringing out nice overtones eccentuated by the beautifully written music. Raskin's sound resembles a flailing firehose. Lots of dips, sudden bends, twists and turns all very dynamically specific. It wasn't screeches, pops and baring horns all around but only when it was right on and definitely kept to a minimum. Berne sounded great (my first time live) and was playing pretty quietly in that beautiful melodic way often exploring tones sustained rather than pitches all over the place. Michael Formanek was an animal and there were times when he 'cut out' which worked extremely well leaving the dialogue between saxes and drums to fly freely. Elliott Kavee is one of my favorite drummers as of late. He is sensitive and can play one rhythm to ashes before moving on. They had me sitting on the edge of my seat at times wondering how they were going to pull it back together. Kavee took the rhythms so far out while Berne and Raskin streamed through it, loosely lacing it up and holding it all together. Awesome. I really wished I had the capabilities to record it. Anyone else go? What did you think? Other shows in this series were: Bruce Ackley's Actual Size, Steve Adams/Ken Filiano Quartet (featuring Vinny Golia and Billy Mintz) and Larry Och's What We Live. * ROVA at the end of this month. * Masada next week Leon btw, anyone checked out Braxton's Tri-Centric Foundation performances in nyc? I want to know what it's like. Reviews would be nice... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sean Terwilliger Subject: Re: Shankar Date: 07 Nov 1996 11:05:56 -0800 Greg Mills wrote: > > Hi yer > > Anyone out there know if Shankar's album "TOUCH ME THERE" is still in release? > I fink it was orginally on Zappa's Bizarre label. > > Eat yerself fitter > > GregYeah, It made CD on Parking Pumpkin Records. Don't know if it's still available. -Sean ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" Subject: Re: Shankar Date: 07 Nov 1996 16:23:52 -0500 (EST) > Anyone out there know if Shankar's album "TOUCH ME THERE" is still in release? > I fink it was orginally on Zappa's Bizarre label. Is this Shankar the double-headed ten-stringed electric violin shankar we all know and love? He's on Zappa's label? Wierd... -jascha ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matt Walsh Subject: RE: masada // Dresser Date: 07 Nov 1996 17:16:00 PST >>From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" >> >>Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 17:21:01 -0400 (EDT) >>Subject: masada // Dresser >> >>Does anyone know how long Zorn is planning to keep doing his Masada >>project? I'm wondering if maybe he'll suddenly stop as he did with Naked >>City. Or did Naked City stop releasing stuff because Horvitz moved to >>Seatle? Would they have continued otherwise? I read in an interview with John Zorn quite a few years ago in a local Philly newspaper that he dissolved Naked City because he felt that the band had already accomplished everything that it could and had nowhere else to go musically. So, I would guess that Horvitz really had nothing to do with it. Unfortunately, I don't know about Masada's future, but I would assume that he will eventually go in a different direction, much like he's done his career. Caught Masada in Philly last Sunday, a fantastic show. A suprisingly larger venue than I would have expected and even more suprisingly sold out. Hopefully Zorn won't wait so many years to come back. Matt Walsh mattw@smginc.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sean Terwilliger Subject: Hear No Evil Date: 07 Nov 1996 19:19:25 -0800 Sorry, The store is all out of these Cd's. (And the SXL as well). I asked them to try to get more and notify me if they do. If I'll buy them and then post! -Sean ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: martinj@SONOMA.EDU Subject: Re: Shankar Date: 07 Nov 1996 16:21:41 -0800 (PST) Another great album Shankar is on is Peter Gabriel's "Passion". (Last temptation of christ soundtrack) if you don't have it yet, you need it soon. On Thu, 7 Nov 1996, Sean Terwilliger wrote: > Greg Mills wrote: > > > > Hi yer > > > > Anyone out there know if Shankar's album "TOUCH ME THERE" is still in release? > > I fink it was orginally on Zappa's Bizarre label. > > > > Eat yerself fitter > > > > GregYeah, It made CD on Parking Pumpkin Records. Don't know if it's still > available. > > -Sean > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: masada // Dresser Date: 07 Nov 1996 17:04:11 -0800 On Fri, 25 Oct 1996 17:21:01 -0400 (EDT) "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" wrote: > > > Does anyone know how long Zorn is planning to keep doing his Masada > project? I'm wondering if maybe he'll suddenly stop as he did with Naked Don't know (does Zorn even know?), but DIW plans to go up to number 10!!! Tzadik might wait a little bit before releasing the LIVE IN JERUSALEM and the LIVE AT MOGADOR (in order to avoid flooding the market). > City. Or did Naked City stop releasing stuff because Horvitz moved to > Seatle? Would they have continued otherwise? Wayne moved to Seattle late '89, at the same time as Bill Frisell (they are in fact neighbors!). As you know, most of Naked City activity is posterior to these moves... Hence: no connexion between the moves and the band stopping any activity. Patrice (back from 8 weeks of sabbatical in France!!!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Douglas/Bennink Date: 07 Nov 1996 17:05:50 -0800 On Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:29:04 -0300 James Hale wrote: > > The word from Songlines boss Tony Reif is that this should be out in > November. The holdup has been finding a new distributor for the label. I was in NY between October 15 and 25 and I am pretty sure that I saw it. Could have I been victim of an optical illusion? Patrice (I really wonder if I really saw it :-). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Carlson Subject: Re: Shankar Date: 07 Nov 1996 21:24:53 -0600 (CST) >> GregYeah, It made CD on Parking Pumpkin Records. Don't know if it's still >available. > >-Sean > It's Barking Pumpkin. I believe they can be contacted at 818-PUMPKIN or you can email them at Brian Learn as if to live forever; live as if to die tomorrow - unknown ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matt Walsh Subject: RE: masada // Dresser Date: 07 Nov 1996 17:16:00 PST >>From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" >> >>Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 17:21:01 -0400 (EDT) >>Subject: masada // Dresser >> >>Does anyone know how long Zorn is planning to keep doing his Masada >>project? I'm wondering if maybe he'll suddenly stop as he did with Naked >>City. Or did Naked City stop releasing stuff because Horvitz moved to >>Seatle? Would they have continued otherwise? I read in an interview with John Zorn quite a few years ago in a local Philly newspaper that he dissolved Naked City because he felt that the band had already accomplished everything that it could and had nowhere else to go musically. So, I would guess that Horvitz really had nothing to do with it. Unfortunately, I don't know about Masada's future, but I would assume that he will eventually go in a different direction, much like he's done his career. Caught Masada in Philly last Sunday, a fantastic show. A suprisingly larger venue than I would have expected and even more suprisingly sold out. Hopefully Zorn won't wait so many years to come back. Matt Walsh mattw@smginc.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wlt4@aol.com Subject: Bailey jungle album Date: 07 Nov 1996 23:09:22 -0500 Does anybody know where the Derek Bailey jungle album can be found? I thought i saw it listed on the Forced Exposure website but it's not there anymore. What's the title & label? I heard a track on the radio and it sounded great. Thanks, Lang Thompson http://members.aol.com/wlt4/index.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IOUaLive1@aol.com Subject: Re: masada // Dresser Date: 08 Nov 1996 03:53:28 -0500 In a message dated 96-11-07 22:52:20 EST, MATTW@smginc.com (Matt Walsh) writes: > Caught Masada in Philly last Sunday, a fantastic show. A suprisingly > larger venue than I would have expected and even more suprisingly sold > out. Hopefully Zorn won't wait so many years to come back. Does anybody know who the bassist was at this show? I assume he will be on the whole tour. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DANIEL BITTON Subject: Ahad Ha'am Date: 08 Nov 1996 09:35:06 -0500 (EST) Just out of curiosity, does anybody know anything about the Zornian view on the Middle East Isreali/Palestinian situation? Ahad Ha'am (the guy that the Masada discs are dedicated to) was a leader in the philosophy of a Jewish cultural center in Palestine within the existing structure in cooperation with the Palestinians rather than an actual Jewish state. Just wondering if anybody's read anything in interview or anything like that. > > Don't know (does Zorn even know?), but DIW plans to go up to number 10!!! > > Tzadik might wait a little bit before releasing the LIVE IN JERUSALEM and the > LIVE AT MOGADOR (in order to avoid flooding the market). > > > City. Or did Naked City stop releasing stuff because Horvitz moved to > > Seatle? Would they have continued otherwise? > > Wayne moved to Seattle late '89, at the same time as Bill Frisell (they are > in fact neighbors!). As you know, most of Naked City activity is posterior > to these moves... Hence: no connexion between the moves and the band stopping > any activity. > > Patrice (back from 8 weeks of sabbatical in France!!!) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Bailey jungle album Date: 08 Nov 1996 11:51:59 -0800 Wlt4@aol.com wrote: > > Does anybody know where the Derek Bailey jungle album can be found? I > thought i saw it listed on the Forced Exposure website but it's not there > anymore. What's the title & label? I heard a track on the radio and it > sounded great. It's called "Guitar, Drums'n'Bass" and it's on Zorn's Japanese Avant label, which is currently sort of in distribution limbo while some things are getting sorted out both here and abroad. It is a pretty great album and reconfirms that Derek is truly a remarkable innovator, still pushing forward into new and unexpected territories (I guess the upcoming performances and recording with Pat Metheny could be seen in that light as well). I have heard that Derek has copies available through Incus mailorder. Unfortunately I don't have that address handy, but if anyone wants to jump in here... Steve Smith ssmith@kochint.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Greg Mills Subject: Re: Shankar Date: 08 Nov 1996 09:32:20 -0700 >> Anyone out there know if Shankar's album "TOUCH ME THERE" is still in >>release? >> I fink it was orginally on Zappa's Bizarre label. > >Is this Shankar the double-headed ten-stringed electric violin shankar we >all know and love? He's on Zappa's label? Wierd... > >-jascha Yepper. This album was produced by Zappa in the early 80's and it features the vocal talents of Zappa and Ike Willis from the Mothers on a couple of songs (and i think Zappa makes guitar sounds on it too). Picture Shankar playing Zappa and you hit the nail on the head. if you just read the back of the sleeve, you'd swear it's a Zappa album by the song titles alone -- like "Knee Deep in Waterheaters". A really good, really weird effort. Vootie, Greg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Bailey jungle album Date: 08 Nov 1996 08:37:32 -0800 On Fri, 08 Nov 1996 11:51:59 -0800 Steve Smith wrote: > > Wlt4@aol.com wrote: > > > > Does anybody know where the Derek Bailey jungle album can be found? I > > thought i saw it listed on the Forced Exposure website but it's not there > > anymore. What's the title & label? I heard a track on the radio and it > > sounded great. > > It's called "Guitar, Drums'n'Bass" and it's on Zorn's Japanese Avant > label, which is currently sort of in distribution limbo while some things > are getting sorted out both here and abroad. It is a pretty great > album and reconfirms that Derek is truly a remarkable innovator, > still pushing forward into new and unexpected territories (I guess the > upcoming performances and recording with Pat Metheny could be seen in > that light as well). > > I have heard that Derek has copies available through Incus mailorder. > Unfortunately I don't have that address handy, but if anyone wants to > jump in here... Sphere Marketting in his last update catalog listed it as available. Sphere Marketing & Distribution Cargo Bldg 80 Rm 2A JFK International Airport Jamaica NY 11430 Phone: 718.656-6220 FAX: 718. 244-1804 Internet: sphere1@ix.netcom.com Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Caulfield Bivins Subject: Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #16 Date: 08 Nov 1996 14:48:41 -0500 (EST) If this is helpful at all, I can personally confirm the existence of the Douglas/Bennink disc "Serpentine". Tony Reif of Songlines is indeed unhappy with his distribution, but I found a copy of the above in Chicago's Jazz Record Mart (along with a really great Joe McPhee disc documenting a live date he did with Eyvind Kang, among others, in 1995 - small plug for Joe). Personally, I think the Douglas/Bennink pairing works - it's pretty gonzo, with Dave going beyond even Tiny Bell territory. It's taken me a number of listenings to get into, but Han swings like mad (not to mention his violin) and the ideas are flowing. I'm eager for the Clusone disc with Douglas. By the way, Reif says we can expect a Marty Ehrlich/Ben Goldberg disc early next year. Jason Bivins ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: john shiurba Subject: Re: Bailey jungle album Date: 08 Nov 1996 13:22:49 -0700 patrice: > Sphere Marketting in his last update catalog listed it as available. > but when i tried to get this from sphere, i was told something along the line of the distribution limbo story. -- shiurba@sfo.com http://www.sfo.com/~shiurba ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Frith about Zorn Date: 08 Nov 1996 16:00:59 -0800 On Wed, 6 Nov 1996 22:46:29 -0500 (EST) br00361@binghamton.edu wrote: > > > I've been transcribing and translating, from the French, Fred Frith's long > comments about Zorn, Zorn's music and their collaboration, on the > occasion of an extraordinary duo concert by both in Oct. 8, 1988. > > My question is: does anybody in the list by any chance know about other > declarations, statements, interviews, or articles about Zorn, by Frith or > by other musicians who played with him or not ? I know David Bailey's > chapter in his "Musical Improvision" (only on the latest edition, by > DaCappo) but I would be interested about references of other > similar writings by musicians. There is an article in MUSICS (English magazine) from 1979 where Frith reports a series of shows he attended in NYC. In this article he shows his surprise at how much awe other musicians are showing to Zorn (he is talking about the "usual" crew which used to play with Zorn). Also Frith kind of criticizes the way Zorn's pieces are structured (game pieces). Coming from a free improv scene (Europe), Zorn's methods do not look very democratic :-). From the article you can guess that Zorn is a musician we will hear about in the next years. I have the article somewhere and I should try to dig it because it is examplary of how Zorn impressed (and still) other musicians by knowing exactly what he wants (and this at an early age) and to get other musicians do it. Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Barry Gilbert Subject: Interview? Date: 08 Nov 1996 17:22:20 -0500 -- [ From: Barry Gilbert * EMC.Ver #2.3 ] -- There is a small chance that I'll have the opportunity ti interview Zorn for my radio show when Masada comes to Boulder next Sunday. I need help from everyone with questions that I should ask him. What would you ask him if you had the opportunity? Barry Gilbert ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Interview? Date: 08 Nov 1996 16:54:00 -0800 On Fri, 08 Nov 1996 17:22:20 -0500 Barry Gilbert wrote: > > -- [ From: Barry Gilbert * EMC.Ver #2.3 ] -- > > There is a small chance that I'll have the opportunity ti interview Zorn > for my radio show when Masada comes to Boulder next Sunday. I need help > from everyone with questions that I should ask him. What would you ask him > if you had the opportunity? Not an important one but just curious about: Why does he have no plan to release the East coast Masada (with Ben Goldberg)? Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rizzi@netcom.com (m. rizzi) Subject: Re: Interview? Date: 08 Nov 1996 17:21:00 -0800 (PST) Patrice L. Roussel, demi-God and Icon sez: > >On Fri, 08 Nov 1996 17:22:20 -0500 Barry Gilbert wrote: >> >> -- [ From: Barry Gilbert * EMC.Ver #2.3 ] -- >> >> There is a small chance that I'll have the opportunity ti interview Zorn >> for my radio show when Masada comes to Boulder next Sunday. I need help hmmm...I was under the impression that he doesn't do interviews anymore...that would be great if he does come in. >> from everyone with questions that I should ask him. What would you ask him >> if you had the opportunity? > >Not an important one but just curious about: > > Why does he have no plan to release the East coast Masada (with Ben > Goldberg)? Don't you mean West Coast Masada there Patrice? cheers, mike rizzi@tfs.com ------------------------------------------- rizzi@netcom.com -=work=- "Another nerd with a soulpatch" -=home=- http://www.meer.net/~browbeat/ -------- browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 --------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Interview? Date: 08 Nov 1996 17:26:01 -0800 On Fri, 8 Nov 1996 17:21:00 -0800 (PST) m. rizzi wrote: > > Patrice L. Roussel, demi-God and Icon sez: > > > >On Fri, 08 Nov 1996 17:22:20 -0500 Barry Gilbert wrote: > >> > >> -- [ From: Barry Gilbert * EMC.Ver #2.3 ] -- > >> > >> There is a small chance that I'll have the opportunity ti interview Zorn > >> for my radio show when Masada comes to Boulder next Sunday. I need help > > hmmm...I was under the impression that he > doesn't do interviews anymore...that would > be great if he does come in. > > >> from everyone with questions that I should ask him. What would you ask him > >> if you had the opportunity? > > > >Not an important one but just curious about: > > > > Why does he have no plan to release the East coast Masada (with Ben > > Goldberg)? > > Don't you mean West Coast Masada there Patrice? Oups! I mean (of course) this Masada. I asked the question once to Zorn and he said no (that he won't record any West coast Masada); I did not have the smartness to ask why. Patrice (still trying to recover from too much travel :-). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wlt4@aol.com Subject: Bailey/Metheny Date: 08 Nov 1996 21:30:34 -0500 A lot of you probably already know about this but in case you don't: I just talked to Mark at the Knitting Factory and he said that Bailey is coming over to NYC soon for two days in the studio and two live shows with Metheny, the best of which will be collected for an album. This is apparently the sole purpose for Bailey's trip so it may be the last chance to see him in the US. Best, Lang Thompson ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dawnrazor@pacificnet.net Subject: For Steve Smith Date: 08 Nov 1996 12:23:02 -0800 Please e-mail me. Apologies to everyone else. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richie Teh Subject: Bennik/Douglas's Serpentine Date: 09 Nov 1996 19:39:55 +1100 (EST) Hi all, >Personally, I think the Douglas/Bennink pairing >works - it's pretty gonzo, with Dave going beyond even Tiny Bell >territory. It's taken me a number of listenings to get into, but Han >swings like mad (not to mention his violin) and the ideas are flowing. I'm Yes, I bought this last week too. Imagine my surprise finding this gem with the new Babkas CD) in a suburben CD shop in Melbourne Australia. I strongly recommend this. This duo is totally totally wild!!! The collaboration is indeed out of this world. Beware, most tunes on this disc are complete improvisation and very well done, except for 2 standards which was kinda cool (trumpet and other sounds). >eager for the Clusone disc with Douglas. By the way, Reif says we can Yes, I read about this on Patrice Roussel's Dave Douglas's discog (Hi Patrice!! Welcome back!! Thanks for your help with the Joey Baron and Jim Black discog). It mentioned that this album will be released on Gramavision early next year. There's also mentioned that a new Dave Douglas solo project and a Tiny Bell Trio releases. Anyone have more info? >expect a Marty Ehrlich/Ben Goldberg disc early next year. Yes yes yes!!! Can't wait!!! Regards, Richie Teh Maintainer of Drumnet http://www.clearview.com.au/drumnet Email: richie@c031.aone.net.au or drumnet@clearview.com.au *Want to display an Advertisment Banner on DrumNet, email for more infor :-) ** New contest on DrumNet. All you have to do is fill in the survey and be in the running for 3 CDs!!! Yes, 3 CDs!!! Amazing! Starts 21st Oct 96 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: silver whale Subject: Re: Bailey/Metheny Date: 09 Nov 1996 13:32:50 +0200 (GMT+0200) On Fri, 8 Nov 1996 Wlt4@aol.com wrote: > A lot of you probably already know about this but in case you don't: I j= ust > talked to Mark at the Knitting Factory and he said that Bailey is coming = over > to NYC soon for two days in the studio and two live shows with Metheny, t= he > best of which will be collected for an album. This is apparently the sol= e > purpose for Bailey's trip so it may be the last chance to see him in the = US. "Last chance"? Is there something that I don=B4t know... I must confess I= =20 don=B4t have the faintest idea of mr Bailey=B4s age..., I know he has been= =20 around for some time, thought... teemu _-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D= -__-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D-__- e-mail: tkorpipa@siba.fi "There was coffee. Life would go on." Ruumen homepage: William Gibson:'The Winter Market' http://www.siba.fi/~tkorpipa/ruumen.html _-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D= -__-=3D-__-=3D-__-=3D-__- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Walter M. Young" Subject: RE: Bailey/Metheny Date: 09 Nov 1996 10:08:28 -0500 I haven't seen this show listed on Knitting Factory's homepage yet, but = the dates are December 13 & 14. Tickets are available for ordering now. = I've got mine! ---------- Sent: Friday, November 08, 1996 9:31 PM A lot of you probably already know about this but in case you don't: I = just talked to Mark at the Knitting Factory and he said that Bailey is coming = over to NYC soon for two days in the studio and two live shows with Metheny, = the best of which will be collected for an album. This is apparently the = sole purpose for Bailey's trip so it may be the last chance to see him in the = US. Best, Lang Thompson ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jhale@cycor.ca (James Hale) Subject: Re: Bennik/Douglas's Serpentine Date: 09 Nov 1996 10:19:53 -0500 Richie wrote: >There's also mentioned that a new Dave Douglas solo project >and a Tiny Bell Trio releases. Anyone have more info? Dave told me in July that a live TBT will be recorded this fall and released early in 97. His Sanctuary project -- two trumpets, two samplers, two basses and two drums -- is supposed to be out on the Avant label very soon. Dave said that beyond these, he's also planning to release an orchestral work with Friedlander and Surin soloing, something with Trilok Gurtu and duos with Kenny Wheeler. These last two were still in the planning stages. James Hale Music Journalist Ottawa ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: choltby@cln.etc.bc.ca (Holtby) Subject: Re: Bennik/Douglas's Serpentine Date: 09 Nov 1996 08:08:22 -0800 (PST) >Richie wrote: >>There's also mentioned that a new Dave Douglas solo project >>and a Tiny Bell Trio releases. Anyone have more info? > >Dave told me in July that a live TBT will be recorded this fall and >released early in 97. >His Sanctuary project -- two trumpets, two samplers, two basses and two >drums -- is supposed to be out on the Avant label very soon. > >Dave said that beyond these, he's also planning to release an orchestral >work with Friedlander and Surin soloing, something with Trilok Gurtu and >duos with Kenny Wheeler. These last two were still in the planning stages. > >James Hale >Music Journalist >Ottawa > > > > I, too began salivating when I saw the Clusone Trio/Dave Douglas disc pending upon reading the Dave Douglas Discography. I queried Rykodisc on this, however, and was informed that, although they were touring together, no plans were in place regarding recording. Does Rykodisc/Grammavision speak the truth, or does the Zorn-list know better? Doug Holtby ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" Subject: Re: The Cabinnet Date: 09 Nov 1996 13:59:25 -0500 (EST) > Dresser in top form... His new solo album Invocation is very good (the > Hemingway arranged tune is amazing) but I always slap on Braxton's Would this be Gerry Hemmingway? I saw him for a measly $5.00 canadian at the Guelph jazz festival and he blew me away. Anyone who can keep an audience rivitted for an hour with a solo drum-set concert is amazing. I bought two of his CDs: 'solo acoustic works 1983-1994' and 'solo electro-acoustic works 1983-1994' and both are increadible. Listening to the solo acoustic stuff in the dark is spookier than anything else i've heard...he uses every extended technique you can use on the drums, and adds more of his own. His electro-acoustic stuff is also brilliant. Wow. They're really hard to get, he says, so here's the label if anyone's interested: RANDOM ACOUSTICS po box 301070 D-50780 koln, germany phone (00)49.221.5106387 fax (00)49.221.5106386 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Olivier Nguyen Van Tan Subject: Bar Kokhba in France Date: 09 Nov 1996 23:33:19 +0100 Hi, Last week, Bar Kokhba was playing in France in Paris at LE HOT BRASS (31st of October). The band was: Marc Ribot Joey Baron Greg Cohen Cyro Baptista Erik Friedlander and Mark Feldman. Zorn showed us his back all night long and seemed to be a real tyran = with his musicians (especially with Marc Ribot...). He acted like a = conductor. Nevertheless, the gig was great and Joey Baron as usual was the best!! (can he be bad?) Zorn just played saxophone on the last song (the audience asked him). But, his solos were not very great... very poor in fact. Nevermind, the band was fantastic. BTW, do you hear the CD LengthChe (or something like that...) of Naked = City? Is it worth a lot of money (226 francs or more than 40 $) for 32 = minutes? Olivier ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dwight Haden Subject: Re: Hex Kitchen Date: 10 Nov 1996 17:34:25 +0000 At 09:59 PM 11/6/96 +0000, you wrote: > >From: Howard Shih >Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 16:05:49 -0400 (EDT) >Subject: Early Zorn Recomendations? > >I'm thinking of getting some of Zorn's earlier works but I'm not too sure >where to start. The earliest Zorn works I have are Spillane and The Big >Gundown. While I'm asking for recommendations... has anyone heard Ikue >Mori's Garden or Hex Kitchen? I've like Death Ambient and am curious >about her other stuff? How long has she worked with drum machines? Anyone >see her perform? > I bought Hex Kitchen on the strength of Death Ambient and was not disappointed. Hex Kitchen has vocals on a few tracks, and is not quite as dark, but the orientation and general sound are similar to Death Ambient. Recommended companion pieces. :------------------------------------------: | Dwight Haden === dhaden@worldnet.att.net | :------------------------------------------: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" Subject: Re: Leng T'che Date: 10 Nov 1996 13:04:08 -0500 (EST) > BTW, do you hear the CD LengthChe (or something like that...) of Naked City? > Is it worth a lot of money (226 francs or more than 40 $) for 32 minutes? I think it's Leng T'che, but i don't feel like going all the way upstairs to make sure right now. I paid a lot for it (2600 yen = $35 canadian) because i'd never heard of it and thought it was never going to appear again. It's 32 minutes of big nasty guitar noise and screaming; big blocky power chords which move around very slowly, and funeral dirge HEAVY bass drum and cymbal thumping... it sounds like the ending of a heavy metal song streatched out to half an hour with the actual song left off of the beginning. Supposedly it was inspired by the Melvins' stage show, but i wouldn't know because i've never seen it. hope that helps, jascha ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Spirer Subject: Re: Leng T'che Date: 10 Nov 1996 10:59:38 -0800 At 01:04 PM 11/10/96 -0500, Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n wrote: >> BTW, do you hear the CD LengthChe (or something like that...) of Naked City? >> Is it worth a lot of money (226 francs or more than 40 $) for 32 minutes? > >I think it's Leng T'che, but i don't feel like going all the way upstairs >to make sure right now. I paid a lot for it (2600 yen = $35 canadian) >because i'd never heard of it and thought it was never going to appear >again. > I bought mine for $8 new. At least in the US (I realize both of the previous posters are not living in the US), this has shown up as a cutout through Tower. Jeff Spirer http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/ Axiom Records/Material Communications ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: N Vassiliou Subject: Re: Leng T'che Date: 10 Nov 1996 20:43:29 GMT > At 01:04 PM 11/10/96 -0500, Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n wrote: > >> BTW, do you hear the CD LengthChe (or something like that...) of Naked City? > >> Is it worth a lot of money (226 francs or more than 40 $) for 32 minutes? > > > >I think it's Leng T'che, but i don't feel like going all the way upstairs > >to make sure right now. I paid a lot for it (2600 yen = $35 canadian) > >because i'd never heard of it and thought it was never going to appear > >again. > > > > I bought mine for $8 new. At least in the US (I realize both of the > previous posters are not living in the US), this has shown up as a cutout > through Tower. > > Jeff Spirer > http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/ > Axiom Records/Material Communications I think I heard from somewhere (but I can't remember where) that Leng T'che is going to be reissued together with Torture Garden. From what I can tell from your descriptions of Leng T'Che it is a much better companion to Torture Garden than Grand Guignol. Nick Vassiliou York,UK ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sean Terwilliger Subject: Re: Leng T'che Date: 10 Nov 1996 16:57:26 -0800 Jeff Spirer wrote: > > At 01:04 PM 11/10/96 -0500, Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n wrote: > >> BTW, do you hear the CD LengthChe (or something like that...) of Naked City? > >> Is it worth a lot of money (226 francs or more than 40 $) for 32 minutes? > > > >I think it's Leng T'che, but i don't feel like going all the way upstairs > >to make sure right now. I paid a lot for it (2600 yen = $35 canadian) > >because i'd never heard of it and thought it was never going to appear > >again. > > > > I bought mine for $8 new. At least in the US (I realize both of the > previous posters are not living in the US), this has shown up as a cutout > through Tower. > Isn't Tzadik going to release that backed with Torture Garden? -Sean ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Chamberlin Subject: Mr. Bungle Date: 10 Nov 1996 18:36:08 -0500 I just watched the cut of the "quote unquote" video on the Warner Bros. Mr Bungle home page, and I was wondering if anyone had a copy of the entire video, or other Bungle videos. "Homosexuality is the best cover Scott Chamberlin an agent can have." chambest@cs.purdue.edu --William S. Burroughs Tarkington Hall SW156 West Lafayette, IN 47906 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: terry kroetsch f Subject: Re: Masada Chamber Parts Date: 10 Nov 1996 21:34:33 -0500 (EST) We, a new music org. in Ontario, are considering performing Masada Chamber Ensembles " Bar Kokhba" (in part or full) live next year. Does anyone know I would go about getting the score or parts or both for this? Thanks, NUMUS c/o Terry Kroetsch P.S. personal request: can someone tell me how many albums have been released by Medeski, Martin and Wood? Also, has anyone heard the Hellborg, Lane and Apt.Q.258? And whats with three name bands.... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kevinn@seis.com (Kevin Neales) Subject: Buckethead Date: 10 Nov 1996 22:50:05 -0500 I've heard about a few new Buckethead albums Buckethead "Plays Disney" Praxis"Live" Arcana II Does anybody know when any of these might be released. Kevin Neales kevinn@seis.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Spirer Subject: Re: Buckethead Date: 10 Nov 1996 19:28:25 -0800 At 10:50 PM 11/10/96 -0500, Kevin Neales wrote: >I've heard about a few new Buckethead albums >Buckethead "Plays Disney" >Praxis"Live" >Arcana II > >Does anybody know when any of these might be released. Praxis Live in Europe will be released early next year on a new label that will put out Bill Laswell CDs. Arcana II will be released in the first half of next year on Axiom. I talked with Buckethead about the Disney album about six months ago and he said he hadn't recorded it yet, at that time. That fact combined with the erratic release and distribution of Avant makes it anyone's guess. I also get asked regularly about the Praxis studio album that was supposed to come out on SubMeta. That project has been shelved indefinitely. There will be another Buckethead solo CD, label will be announced later. Jeff Spirer http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/ Axiom Records/Material Communications ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Adam Ritchie Subject: Mr Bungle percussionist Date: 11 Nov 1996 22:43:34 +1030 Hi there, I recently saw Mr bungle in Adelaide, Australia a couple of weeks ago which was one of the most amazing shows I've experienced apart from MTM, Le Fura De Baus from Spain. Anyway, what I wanted to know was who was the percussionist on the Australian Tour? Was it Ed Mann from the Frank Zappa group because I read in a local street mag that the percussionist was an x-Zappa player. Anyone know? Thanks Ritchie (Chimera) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Adam Ritchie Subject: Laswell/Namlook Date: 11 Nov 1996 22:49:48 +1030 Hi there, I recently purchased a Bill Laswell CD entitled Psychonavigation which is in collaboration with Pete Namlook. I'm curious to what Pete Namlook does(Excuse my lack of knowledge)? Is he a keys player, programmer, type person because there are some excellent sounds on this disc. Ritchie (Chimera) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Bailey/Metheny Date: 11 Nov 1996 08:24:31 -0800 On Sat, 9 Nov 1996 13:32:50 +0200 (GMT+0200) silver whale wrote: > > On Fri, 8 Nov 1996 Wlt4@aol.com wrote: > > A lot of you probably already know about this but in case you don't: I j= > ust > > talked to Mark at the Knitting Factory and he said that Bailey is coming = > over > > to NYC soon for two days in the studio and two live shows with Metheny, t= > he > > best of which will be collected for an album. This is apparently the sol= > e > > purpose for Bailey's trip so it may be the last chance to see him in the = > US. > > "Last chance"? Is there something that I don=B4t know... I must confess I= > =20 > don=B4t have the faintest idea of mr Bailey=B4s age..., I know he has been= > =20 > around for some time, thought... Born on January 29, 1930 in Sheffield (UK). Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Bennik/Douglas's Serpentine Date: 11 Nov 1996 08:34:51 -0800 On Sat, 9 Nov 1996 08:08:22 -0800 (PST) Holtby wrote: > > >Richie wrote: > >>There's also mentioned that a new Dave Douglas solo project > >>and a Tiny Bell Trio releases. Anyone have more info? > > > >Dave told me in July that a live TBT will be recorded this fall and > >released early in 97. > >His Sanctuary project -- two trumpets, two samplers, two basses and two > >drums -- is supposed to be out on the Avant label very soon. > > > >Dave said that beyond these, he's also planning to release an orchestral > >work with Friedlander and Surin soloing, something with Trilok Gurtu and > >duos with Kenny Wheeler. These last two were still in the planning stages. > > > >James Hale > >Music Journalist > >Ottawa > > > > > > > > I, too began salivating when I saw the Clusone Trio/Dave Douglas disc > pending upon reading the Dave Douglas Discography. I queried Rykodisc on this, > however, and was informed that, although they were touring together, no > plans were in place regarding recording. > Does Rykodisc/Grammavision speak the truth, or does the Zorn-list > know better? Jon Abbey told me about it. He talked to Ernst Reijseger briefly during the last Victoriaville festival and Ernst mentioned that they had recorded a record with Dave Douglas that would be released on Gramavision. But, as all we know, between record projects and what ends up in the stores, a lot can happen :-). Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Bar Kokhba in France Date: 11 Nov 1996 08:40:01 -0800 On Sat, 9 Nov 1996 23:33:19 +0100 Olivier Nguyen Van Tan wrote: > > BTW, do you hear the CD LengthChe (or something like that...) of Naked = > City? > Is it worth a lot of money (226 francs or more than 40 $) for 32 = > minutes? Knowing that it will be reissued on Tzadik with TORTURE GARDEN, je garderai mes precieux FF. Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: herb@eskimo.com (Herb Levy) Subject: Re: The Cabinnet Date: 11 Nov 1996 11:07:41 -0800 >Would this be Gerry Hemmingway? I saw him for a measly $5.00 canadian at >the Guelph jazz festival and he blew me away. Anyone who can keep an >audience rivitted for an hour with a solo drum-set concert is amazing. I >bought two of his CDs: 'solo acoustic works 1983-1994' and 'solo >electro-acoustic works 1983-1994' and both are increadible. Listening to >the solo acoustic stuff in the dark is spookier than anything else i've >heard...he uses every extended technique you can use on the drums, and >adds more of his own. His electro-acoustic stuff is also brilliant. Wow. > The Hemingway solo discs ARE really good. Random Acoustics discs (and lots of other European improv etc., are also usually available in the States from Rastascan Records, from Gino Robair of the SF Bay area group Splatter Trio: Rastascan P O Box 3073 San Leandro, CA 94578 e-mail: North Country may also have them. Herb Levy herb@eskimo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: martinj@SONOMA.EDU Subject: Re: Laswell/Namlook Date: 11 Nov 1996 11:56:22 -0800 (PST) Hi. Pete namlook, I believe, is a keyboardboard player. He has his own FAX label with upwards of 250 (yes, 250) releases on it. He is an ambient artist who seems to never sit still (much like bill laswell). If you want some more goos stuff, check out Transonic 3: Future Primitive. It's on his Fax label, and I think is really cool. That's about all I know of the man. To my knowledge, he has no web page, buy it's worth checking anyway. OK. bye. Josh Martin On Mon, 11 Nov 1996, Adam Ritchie wrote: > Hi there, > > I recently purchased a Bill Laswell CD entitled Psychonavigation which > is in collaboration with Pete Namlook. I'm curious to what Pete Namlook > does(Excuse my lack of knowledge)? Is he a keys player, programmer, > type person because there are some excellent sounds on this disc. > > Ritchie (Chimera) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: john shiurba Subject: Re: Mr Bungle percussionist Date: 11 Nov 1996 12:54:36 -0700 > I recently saw Mr bungle in Adelaide, Australia a couple of weeks ago > which was one of the most amazing shows I've experienced apart from MTM, > Le Fura De Baus from Spain. Anyway, what I wanted to know was who was > the percussionist on the Australian Tour? Was it Ed Mann from the Frank > Zappa group because I read in a local street mag that the percussionist > was an x-Zappa player. Anyone know? Thanks it was probably Willie Winant who also plays on the most recent record. -- shiurba@sfo.com http://www.sfo.com/~shiurba ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John E. Young" Subject: masada in nyc Date: 11 Nov 1996 14:19:45 -0800 (PST) i don't know if anybody's posted about this yet, but i just saw in the latest knitting factory mailing that masada will do 2 shows a night there from dec. 6-12. time for a trip to the big city... jy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mturner@netcom.com (Mark Turner) Subject: Re: Laswell/Namlook Date: 11 Nov 1996 14:40:58 -0800 (PST) > Hi. > Pete namlook, I believe, is a keyboardboard player. He has his own FAX > label with upwards of 250 (yes, 250) releases on it. He is an ambient > artist who seems to never sit still (much like bill laswell). If you > want some more goos stuff, check out Transonic 3: Future Primitive. It's > on his Fax label, and I think is really cool. That's about all I know of > the man. To my knowledge, he has no web page, buy it's worth checking > anyway. OK. bye. > Josh Martin I think TRANSONIC 3 is a fine release, but I should point out that Pete Namlook himself does not play on this one. Instead, it is Robert Musso, Bill Laswell's sometime engineer. I believe Laswell also plays bass on this release. And there is an excellent Fax web page at: http://www.hyperreal.com/music/labels/fax/discog.html -- Mark Turner mturner@netcom.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pauljay@connexus.apana.org.au (Paul Jacobson) Subject: Re: Laswell/Namlook Date: 12 Nov 1996 10:30:08 +1100 martinj@SONOMA.EDU wrote: > To my knowledge, he has no web page, buy it's worth checking > anyway. OK. bye. There is in fact a FAX home page at hyperreal: http://www.hyperreal.com/music/labels/fax which has info about Pete Namlook, a complete discography for the label and sublabels and links to reviews. I'd second the recommendation of Transonic 3 and extend it to include Transonic 1 and 2. Transonic 1 is due to be reissued on the Ambient World label in the near future and Transonic 2 may still be available (despite runs limited to 1000 copies). Transonic is Bob Musso with some help from Laswell on various tracks. Worth checking out are Laswell's other collaborations on the label, although these may be getting hard to find. Peace out Paul webpages:> http://connexus.apana.org.au/~pauljay ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mason Wendell" Subject: Prelapse at the Knitting Factory Date: 11 Nov 1996 18:41:39 +0000 Good Golly Miss Molly! First, please let me apologise for such late e-notice about this show. So here's the scoop. Wednesday, November 13 at 9:00 Prelapse will be playing at the Knitting Factory. The Knit. is at 74 Leonard St. NYC. In NY take the 1 or 9 train to Franklin St. So come on down and shake it out. Mason ************************************************************ * Mason Wendell * * bassist\composer * *Prelapse- Naked City's music & new music for loud ensemble* * http://www.tiac.net/users/prelapse/mwendell.html * ************************************************************ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Discography of John Zorn version 10.0 just out Date: 11 Nov 1996 16:02:15 -0800 To let you know that I updated the Zorn discography at the WNUR web site: http://www.nwu.edu/WNUR/jazz/artists/zorn.john/discog.html More than 200 records are listed. Enjoy, and thanks again for the contributors (I hope I did not forget any names in the credit section), Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Newgarden Subject: THE ART OF REMEMRANCE - SIMON WIESENTHAL (fwd) Date: 11 Nov 1996 21:19:38 -0500 (EST) Here is some info on Philadelphia screening of T.A.O.R. which includes Bar Kokhba soundtrack. I believe there are more U.S. screenings to follow. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Dear Friends, We are very pleased that our documentary film THE ART OF REMEMBRANCE - SIMON WIESENTHAL (a documentary feature by Johanna Heer and Werner Schmiedel) will have a one week special engagement in Philadelphia at the RITZ at the Bourse starting from December 11. As filmmakers we would like to inform as many interested people as possible about the upcoming screening dates. We would highly appreciate it if you could recommend the screenings to people you know who might want to see THE ART OF REMEMBRANCE - SIMON WIESENTHAL. Many thanks for your attention in this matter. For further information please feel free to visit our WWW-page at: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/RLP/sw. html River Lights Pictures, Inc. (212) 226-1526 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IOUaLive1@aol.com Subject: Re: Masada Chamber Parts Date: 12 Nov 1996 01:50:18 -0500 In a message dated 96-11-10 21:46:32 EST, tkroetsc@mach1.wlu.ca (terry kroetsch f) writes: > NUMUS c/o Terry Kroetsch > > P.S. personal request: can someone tell me how many albums have been > released by Medeski, Martin and Wood? Also, has anyone heard the Hellborg, > Lane and Apt.Q.258? And whats with three name bands.... I'm very familiar with the Jonas Hellborg, Shawn Lane, Apt.Q258 collaboration. Improvised fusion at its finest. I saw them recently in NYC, and Jeff Sipe( Apt. Q258) told me that in the near future they may be doing a record, produced by Bill Laswell and featuring the nephew of Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan on vocals. Would be very interesting. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: seanter@ix.netcom.com (Sean Terwilliger ) Subject: Hellborg, Lane, Q-258 Date: 12 Nov 1996 06:05:26 -0800 You wrote: >and Jeff Sipe( Apt. Q258) told me that in the near future they may be doing a >record, produced by Bill Laswell and featuring the nephew of Nusrat Fateh Ali >Khan on vocals. Would be very interesting. > > Wow! Jeff, any truth to this? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Kowalski Subject: Masada in Boston Date: 12 Nov 1996 09:20:09 -0500 Hi all ~ What does one do in preparation to the attendance of a John Zorn concert? I've gone to the New England Conservatory to see students put on a show of Zorn's music (Masada, solo for drums and Naked City.) Actually the question is how to prepare the girlfriend. She's not too partial to 98 % of my Zorn collection. Then again, she was to mellowed (read : fast asleep) by the Bill Frisell show about a year ago. At least she likes listening to Tom Waits, the Lounge Lizards and Michael Nyman. And I defiantly enjoy the tunes of Bill Morrisey and Greg Brown... Like many I love talking music but this list often reads like a record swap meeting filled with stamp collectors. But enough silliness. Chow for now. Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Seth Gordon Subject: Zorn / Chadbourne Date: 12 Nov 1996 12:24:47 -0500 1. Has anyone heard the new Zorn / Chadbourne album? I saw it the other day and was thinking of getting it, but I put it off. Is it just a bunch of squeaky noises? Or do they make things a bit more interesting? Is it similar to the Zorn/Bailey/Parker or the Zorn/Frith albums? 2. Does anyone know just what's going on with the live Naked City album? After "Zorn Month" at the knit a few years back, the Knit announced they had taped all the N.C. shows (over ten hours worth, as I remember) and would release them as a box set, proceeds going to charity. Well... never heard another thing. Everyone should e-mail the Knit and tell them to get on the ball with this one. It's been THREE YEARS now! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "George Curran " Subject: Re: Masada in Boston Date: 12 Nov 1996 08:59:42 -0800 --=_ORCL_9172871_0_11919611121035120 Content-Transfer-Encoding:7bit Content-Type:text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" You have introduced an interesting topic: how does one approach Zorn's music? Put another way, how would you introduce a total neophyte to the music? This introduces questions as to how you categorize Zorn's music. You mentioned the NEC Zorn fest. If you attended the entire 2 day event, you realized how broad a range the music extends. Moreover, you do not have to like everything to appreciate what he has accomplished. I will admit I did not have much fun listening to Cobra at the Middle East, but I am really looking forward to Masada at the ICA. I prefer News for Lulu to Naked City. But enough of me, I am very interested in hearing others recommendations. --=_ORCL_9172871_0_11919611121035120 Content-Type:message/rfc822 X-Mailer:Novell GroupWise 4.1 Encoding:15 Text Sender:owner-zorn-list@xmission.com Precedence: bulk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding:7bit Content-Type:text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hi all ~ What does one do in preparation to the attendance of a John Zorn concert? I've gone to the New England Conservatory to see students put on a show of Zorn's music (Masada, solo for drums and Naked City.) Actually the question is how to prepare the girlfriend. She's not too partial to 98 % of my Zorn collection. Then again, she was to mellowed (read : fast asleep) by the Bill Frisell show about a year ago. At least she likes listening to Tom Waits, the Lounge Lizards and Michael Nyman. And I defiantly enjoy the tunes of Bill Morrisey and Greg Brown... Like many I love talking music but this list often reads like a record swap meeting filled with stamp collectors. But enough silliness. Chow for now. Bob --=_ORCL_9172871_0_11919611121035120-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Zorn / Chadbourne Date: 12 Nov 1996 10:27:46 -0800 On Tue, 12 Nov 1996 12:24:47 -0500 Seth Gordon wrote: > > 1. Has anyone heard the new Zorn / Chadbourne album? I saw it the other > day and was thinking of getting it, but I put it off. Is it just a bunch > of squeaky noises? Or do they make things a bit more interesting? Is it > similar to the Zorn/Bailey/Parker or the Zorn/Frith albums? > > 2. Does anyone know just what's going on with the live Naked City album? > After "Zorn Month" at the knit a few years back, the Knit announced they > had taped all the N.C. shows (over ten hours worth, as I remember) and > would release them as a box set, proceeds going to charity. Well... > never heard another thing. Everyone should e-mail the Knit and tell them > to get on the ball with this one. It's been THREE YEARS now! From what I know, John Zorn does not want the Knitting Factory to release anything under his name (it took two years and a lot of sweat to get out the COBRA thing...). Don't know the exact reason why, but having two labels he completely controls makes me think that he does not need help from anybody to release his music. Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matt Walsh Subject: Re: Mr Bungle percussionist Date: 12 Nov 1996 14:09:00 PST >>From: Adam Ritchie >>Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 22:43:34 +1030 >>Subject: Mr Bungle percussionist >> >>Hi there, >> >>I recently saw Mr bungle in Adelaide, Australia a couple of weeks ago >>which was one of the most amazing shows I've experienced apart from >>MTM, Le Fura De Baus from Spain. Anyway, what I wanted to know was >>who was the percussionist on the Australian Tour? Was it Ed Mann from >>the Frank Zappa group because I read in a local street mag that the >>percussionist >>was an x-Zappa player. Anyone know? Thanks >> >>Ritchie (Chimera) I haven't seen them on this tour, but I am guessing from what I know that Mr. Bungle's percussionist is William Winnant, who I just realized played on Zorn's "Kristallnacht" album. I will admit that I don't know much about Winnant other than his work with Mr. Bungle and now Kristallnacht. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matt Walsh Subject: Laswell's "Hear No Evil"... Date: 12 Nov 1996 14:35:00 PST There were a lot of messages in digests recently about Laswell's "Hear No Evil" album, mainly stating it was Laswell's best work. I bought it years ago and was very unimpressed. I decided to dig it up and listen to it again, and I still don't see what is so fantastic about this album. ...To each their own I guess. Anyway, it seems that this is out of print and hard to find, so sorry to have another message that sounds "like a record swap meeting filled with stamp collectors.", but if someone wants to trade for it, I'd be interested... I always wanted to kick myself for not getting Laswell's "Basslines" when I saw it years ago, that is probably my favorite of his. Matt Walsh mattw@smginc.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" Subject: zorn's music Date: 12 Nov 1996 15:34:38 -0500 (EST) I found that listening to Zorn gradualy led to me liking evything he's done, on some level, although there are some albums i definitly listen to way more often than others. IMHO, even people who don't like a lot of Zorn's music (as may be the case with the girlfriend mentioned in a previous letter) stand a good chance of liking a Masada show. They are infinitely more audience friendly than, say, Naked City or how i imagine Painkiller to be. They're al lot more musical, for one thing, not to mention the absence of scary amplification and screaming people. I'd say that Masada would be an amazing introduction to Zorn's music. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" Subject: Namlook Date: 12 Nov 1996 15:44:52 -0500 (EST) This really has nothing to do with Zorn, but people have mentioned Namlook and have even recommended albums, so here's my two cents (1.2 cents american): his albums AIR and AIR 2 are both very beautiful (and are sold together as a double thingy). I like them better than any other FAX stuff i've heard. They are different from each other, so if you do find the versions which are seperate (ie: NOT a double thingy) and only want to buy one - The first one is analogue synth, spacey, realm-of-pure-thought musical geometry, whereas the second one is more obviously from the planet earth, with samples of classical guitars, tabla, flute, etc..., although it is still very 'ambient' in a spacey synth kind of way. They both have a lot of nice rhythmic trance-inducing stuff, but aren't 'techno' albums at all at all at all. The double CD is FAX, and the single albums are both on Rising High Records. -jasch ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: john shiurba Subject: Re: Mr Bungle percussionist Date: 12 Nov 1996 14:03:54 -0700 > I haven't seen them on this tour, but I am guessing from what I know that > Mr. Bungle's percussionist is William Winnant, who I just realized played > on Zorn's "Kristallnacht" album. I will admit that I don't know much > about Winnant other than his work with Mr. Bungle and now Kristallnacht. Winant is one of the finest modern classical percussionists around. He also has made frequent forays into improv and rock. Here's a brief list of his recordings: -Abel/ Steinberg/ Winant- Set Of Five (Music of Cage, Cowell etc) -Room (Ochs/Brown/Winant) -Room-Hall of Mirrors (as above + Gresham-Lancaster) -Glenn Spearman Double Trio- The Fields -Glenn Spearman Double Trio- Mystery Project -Glenn Spearman Double Trio-Smokehouse -Ron Anderson-Pak Small r Half Inch you'll see his name pop up on miscellaneous classical recordings, and he also has toured (& recorded?) with Oingo Boingo. -- shiurba@sfo.com http://www.sfo.com/~shiurba ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: john shiurba Subject: Re: Zorn / Chadbourne Date: 12 Nov 1996 14:11:43 -0700 seth gordon: > 1. Has anyone heard the new Zorn / Chadbourne album? I saw it the other > day and was thinking of getting it, but I put it off. Is it just a bunch > of squeaky noises? Or do they make things a bit more interesting? Is it > similar to the Zorn/Bailey/Parker or the Zorn/Frith albums? given your tone here, i'd say you're not going to like it. It's not too similar to those records, because Zorn's playing was so radically different 15 years ago, and because Chadbourne sounds completely different from Bailey or Frith (at least to me). But it is a very abstruse music full of "squeaky noises" as well as an astonishing level of chemistry between the players. Highly recommended to fans of Zorn's (or Chadbourne's) pre 1980 work. -- shiurba@sfo.com http://www.sfo.com/~shiurba ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rizzi@netcom.com (m. rizzi) Subject: Re: Mr Bungle percussionist Date: 12 Nov 1996 14:17:33 -0800 (PST) Matt Walsh, demi-God and Icon sez: > >I haven't seen them on this tour, but I am guessing from what I know that >Mr. Bungle's percussionist is William Winnant, who I just realized played >on Zorn's "Kristallnacht" album. I will admit that I don't know much >about Winnant other than his work with Mr. Bungle and now Kristallnacht. Winnant is also on zorn's Elegy CD. mike rizzi -- rizzi@tfs.com ------------------------------------------- rizzi@netcom.com -=work=- "Another nerd with a soulpatch" -=home=- http://www.meer.net/~browbeat/ -------- browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 --------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Mr Bungle percussionist Date: 12 Nov 1996 15:17:33 -0800 On Tue, 12 Nov 1996 14:17:33 -0800 (PST) m. rizzi wrote: > > Matt Walsh, demi-God and Icon sez: > > > >I haven't seen them on this tour, but I am guessing from what I know that > >Mr. Bungle's percussionist is William Winnant, who I just realized played > >on Zorn's "Kristallnacht" album. I will admit that I don't know much > >about Winnant other than his work with Mr. Bungle and now Kristallnacht. > > Winnant is also on zorn's Elegy CD. Mister Winnant is one of the busiest percussionists in contemporary music (Cage, Riley, Harrison). He is also a teacher at Mills and is featured on numerous recordings (including the set of strange 7" from RRRR). Amazing that he finds the time to tour with Mr. Bungle. Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IOUaLive1@aol.com Subject: Re: Mr Bungle percussionist Date: 12 Nov 1996 18:42:32 -0500 Winnant was also at the West coast Cobra gig a couple of months ago. Along with Mike Patton, David Slusser, Lyle Ellis, Trevor Dunn, John Schott, etc, etc. He was on "mind emissions". ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gary M. Gettier" Subject: Re: Mr Bungle percussionist Date: 12 Nov 1996 19:30:05 -0500 (EST) According to m. rizzi: > >Matt Walsh, demi-God and Icon sez: >> >>I haven't seen them on this tour, but I am guessing from what I know that >>Mr. Bungle's percussionist is William Winnant, who I just realized played >>on Zorn's "Kristallnacht" album. I will admit that I don't know much >>about Winnant other than his work with Mr. Bungle and now Kristallnacht. > > Winnant is also on zorn's Elegy CD. I really enjoyed his work at the Bungle show last year. He made a good show great. He was always doing something. Amazing. Seeya, gmg@ari.net Gary "I can't take all the credit. The Yankees are a great team." - Jeffrey Maier ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark Michael Mathis Subject: Masada Date: 12 Nov 1996 18:54:32 -0600 (CST) Does anyone know the Masada tour schedule? Particulary, does anyone know if they are coming to Texas? that is all. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? Subject: Re: Mr Bungle percussionist Date: 12 Nov 1996 17:47:04 -0800 (PST) of course, don't forget that Winnant was involved with all of the "composer" series 7" releases (including the live MEV 7") which came out on Stomach Ache. ... or is this giving away the secret? hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wlt4@aol.com Subject: Re: Zorn / Chadbourne Date: 12 Nov 1996 21:17:40 -0500 ***** According to the Knitting Factory, the box set is officially defunct. Anybody know any details? Lang Thompson http://members.aol.com/wlt4/index.htm In a message dated 96-11-12 12:31:15 EST, killick@connix.com (Seth Gordon) writes: << After "Zorn Month" at the knit a few years back, the Knit announced they had taped all the N.C. shows (over ten hours worth, as I remember) and would release them as a box set, proceeds going to charity. Well... never heard another thing. Everyone should e-mail the Knit and tell them to get on the ball with this one. It's been THREE YEARS now! >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alain et Louis Potvin Subject: Re: Mr Bungle percussionist Date: 12 Nov 1996 22:23:35 -0500 At 14:17 12/11/96 -0800, you wrote: >Matt Walsh, demi-God and Icon sez: >> >>I haven't seen them on this tour, but I am guessing from what I know that = =20 >>Mr. Bungle's percussionist is William Winnant, who I just realized played = =20 >>on Zorn's "Kristallnacht" album. I will admit that I don't know much =20 >>about Winnant other than his work with Mr. Bungle and now Kristallnacht. = =20 > > Winnant is also on zorn's Elegy CD I saw Winnant at Victoriaville in May 96 (Fest. musique actuelle) with Tom Surgal and Thurston Moore (Sonic Youth) Alain Potvin =20 Alain Potvin Qu=E9bec, Canada ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: NEC_DRURY@FLO.ORG Subject: Cage and Zorn music in concert Date: 12 Nov 1996 23:10:08 -0500 (EST) For those in the Boston, Mass. area, here's an upcoming concert event which may be of interest: The Enchanted Circle and the Callithumpian Consort present -- John Cage: Cheap Imitation (chamber orchestra version) John Zorn: Christabel for 5 flutes Giacinto Scelsi: Hyxos for Alto Flute and Gongs Ustvolskaya: Sonata VI for piano 8pm, Monday November 18 at New England Conservatory 290 Huntington Ave., Boston, Mass. FREE ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: lamerikx@win.tue.nl (Frankco Lamerikx) Subject: Re: Mr Bungle percussionist Date: 13 Nov 1996 09:25:48 +0100 (MET) > Mister Winnant is one of the busiest percussionists in contemporary music > (Cage, Riley, Harrison). He is also a teacher at Mills and is featured > on numerous recordings (including the set of strange 7" from RRRR). Amazing > that he finds the time to tour with Mr. Bungle. > > Patrice. During Bungle's European tour of February/March '96, there was rumour that Wiliam Winant (with a single 'n') would become a permanent member of Mr. Bungle. It seems that Bungle has written a ton of stuff for their next album which includes percussion parts to be played by William Winant. Frankco. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dwight Haden Subject: Re: Zorn's Labels? Date: 13 Nov 1996 06:47:35 +0000 At 06:28 PM 11/12/96 +0000, you wrote: >> >> 2. Does anyone know just what's going on with the live Naked City album? >> After "Zorn Month" at the knit a few years back, the Knit announced they >> had taped all the N.C. shows (over ten hours worth, as I remember) and >> would release them as a box set, proceeds going to charity. Well... >> never heard another thing. Everyone should e-mail the Knit and tell them >> to get on the ball with this one. It's been THREE YEARS now! > >From what I know, John Zorn does not want the Knitting Factory to release >anything under his name (it took two years and a lot of sweat to get out >the COBRA thing...). Don't know the exact reason why, but having two labels >he completely controls makes me think that he does not need help from >anybody to release his music. > > Patrice. > I'm sure he doesn't need help. I also suspect he enjoys releasing stuff on a variety of labels, perhaps to give collectors something to feel proud about. Witness "Art of Memory" on Incus, Filmworks III on Toy's Factory, Painkiller Live discs also on Toy's Factory. These are all recent works which could have gone on Avant or Tzadik. I'm sure there're plenty of other candidates too. Why were Masada 1 thru 6 on DIW, not the sub-label Avant? Why did you need a japanese translation to get Masada 4? Where the hell is Masada 7? Yes, I know Filmworks III and the Execution Ground 3CD set are supposed to come out on Tzadik eventually. In the meantime, let's hope we all have access to a decent record store. => Dwight Haden === dhaden@worldnet.att.net <= ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nathaniel Dorward Subject: Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #24 -- Chadbourne/ Zorn Date: 13 Nov 1996 10:29:46 -0400 (AST) Haven't heard the _Nikki Arane_ album, but there's a track by Zorn/Chadbourne called "Red Lightning, Part I" on Chadbourne's Leo CD _Boogie with the Hook_. It's the best thing on the album, in my opinion (I posted a warning to prospective buyers earlier that they therefore might just as well fork out for _Nikki Arane_, but this seems to have got lost). However, it's definitely within the scratch/pling/noise area of improv; not very close to _Harras_ (Zorn/Parker/Bailey), for instance (don't have the Zorn/Frith, alas), and more like _Yankees_. --N.D. * Nate Dorward (ndorward@is2.dal.ca) website: http://is2.dal.ca/~ndorward/ * ...Cambridge, where chthonic severance dictates endless toil. --Peter Riley, _Alstonefield_ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jan-Wen Lu Subject: Greetje Bijma Date: 13 Nov 1996 21:38:02 +0800 I have a CD-Direct Sounds:Five Voices. With great vocal improvisation works of David Moss, Shelley Hirsch, Anna Homler, Greetje Bijma and Carles Santos. I especailly adore the voice of Greetje Bijma. I'm trying to find her two CD's on Enja Records. 1.Tales Of A Voice (TIP-888808 2, Tiptoe) 2.Barefoot (ENJ-8038 2, Enja)--with Marilyn Crispell & Mark Dresser. Can anyone provide good ways to mail-order them? I'm afraid they were currently out-of-print. Also, please inform me more about the background knowlege of this female vocalist from Netherland. Thanks. -- Jan-Wen Lu E-Mail address: janwenlu@asiaonline.net.tw ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Zorn's Labels? Date: 13 Nov 1996 08:25:22 -0800 On Wed, 13 Nov 1996 06:47:35 +0000 Dwight Haden wrote: > > At 06:28 PM 11/12/96 +0000, you wrote: > > >> > >> 2. Does anyone know just what's going on with the live Naked City album? > >> After "Zorn Month" at the knit a few years back, the Knit announced they > >> had taped all the N.C. shows (over ten hours worth, as I remember) and > >> would release them as a box set, proceeds going to charity. Well... > >> never heard another thing. Everyone should e-mail the Knit and tell them > >> to get on the ball with this one. It's been THREE YEARS now! > > > >From what I know, John Zorn does not want the Knitting Factory to release > >anything under his name (it took two years and a lot of sweat to get out > >the COBRA thing...). Don't know the exact reason why, but having two labels > >he completely controls makes me think that he does not need help from > >anybody to release his music. > > > > Patrice. > > > I'm sure he doesn't need help. I also suspect he enjoys releasing stuff on > a variety of labels, perhaps to give collectors something to feel proud > about. Witness "Art of Memory" on Incus, Filmworks III on Toy's Factory, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ART OF MEMORY is a duo and the other is Fred Frith. Why do you think Zorn was behind the idea of making it on Incus. Not to mention that Bailey and Zorn are good buddies. > about. Witness "Art of Memory" on Incus, Filmworks III on Toy's Factory, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Zorn has a long and good relation with Asian labels; Toy's Factory is one. > Painkiller Live discs also on Toy's Factory. These are all recent works > which could have gone on Avant or Tzadik. I'm sure there're plenty of other ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Maybe because of something called... a contract (my guess), or just to keep a good relation working. > candidates too. Why were Masada 1 thru 6 on DIW, not the sub-label Avant? ^^^ In fact, the same person is behind the Zorn projects on DIW, Avant and Tzadik. Let's make the assumption that for practical reasons (financial?), DIW was a better choice than Avant. > Why did you need a japanese translation to get Masada 4? Where the hell is > Masada 7? You just have to be a little bit patient and savour what you already have :-). Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" Subject: Re: Zorn's Labels? Date: 13 Nov 1996 14:22:39 -0500 (EST) > Yes, I know Filmworks III and the Execution Ground 3CD set are supposed to > come out on Tzadik eventually. In the meantime, let's hope we all have > access to a decent record store. Does anyone know when FWIII is coming out on Tzadik? I thought it was already on Tzadik, but this may explain why the local record stores have been scratching thier heads over my orders lately... And...*where is* Masada 7, anyway? I know at least one person mentioned that it was "ssssssssmokin'", so i thought it was out already. -jascha ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Seth Gordon Subject: Re: Zorn's Labels? Date: 13 Nov 1996 16:28:42 -0500 Filworks III - VI are supposedly going to be out by next March. Tzadik is also releasing a new BURT BACHARACH album of Judaica. (Yes, THAT Burt Bacharach!). I don't know who's playing on it as of now. Masad Seven (which would be "Zayin") I've never heard of, unless that's the "Masada Live" album that came out in Europe, which I don't have. Anyone know anything about that one? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mr R Teh Subject: Re: Zorn's Labels? Date: 14 Nov 1996 08:41:08 +1100 (EST) >Does anyone know when FWIII is coming out on Tzadik? I thought it was >already on Tzadik, but this may explain why the local record stores have been >scratching thier heads over my orders lately... According to the Tzadik homepage, the following will be released on the 19 Nov 1996. There's no mention of FWIII. Kletka Red: Hijacking --- Coming on November 19, 1996 New Klezmer Trio: Masks and Faces --- Coming on November 19, 1996 Jon: Smoke --- Coming on November 19, 1996 John Zorn: Filmworks V: Tears of Ecstasy --- Coming on November 19, 1996 John Zorn: Filmworks VI --- Coming on November 19, 1996 Regards, Richie Teh Maintainer of Drumnet http://www.clearview.com.au/drumnet Email: richie@c031.aone.net.au or drumnet@clearview.com.au *Want to display an Advertisment Banner on DrumNet, email for more infor :-) ** New contest on DrumNet. All you have to do is fill in the survey and be in the running for 3 CDs!!! Yes, 3 CDs!!! Amazing! Starts 21st Oct 96 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: slawlor Subject: naked city questions Date: 13 Nov 1996 17:48:59 -0500 (EST) Hi there. I saw "Grand guignol" by naked city on cdconnection and I was wondering what it was like. The reviews of the other naked city disks that I saw remind me that the content might be similar to zorn's naked city release? Is this accurate? Also, I think the review of radio by the same group said that it was cover versions of other famous songs? Does anyone have a track list of what songs are on this, and are they movie themes or jazz classics that they perform or what? Thanks for the information. scott K. Lawlor 3358 Prange Dr. Cuyahoga Falls, OH. 44223 Phone, 330-922-4895 http://w3.gwis.com/~slawlor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Zorn's Labels? Date: 13 Nov 1996 14:58:46 -0800 On Wed, 13 Nov 1996 16:28:42 -0500 Seth Gordon wrote: > > Filworks III - VI are supposedly going to be out by next March. Tzadik ^^ This one is out (with volume V). > is also releasing a new BURT BACHARACH album of Judaica. (Yes, THAT Burt > Bacharach!). I don't know who's playing on it as of now. Masad Seven ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^6 Forgot the details but basically nobody from the NY downtown is missing on it :-). > (which would be "Zayin") I've never heard of, unless that's the "Masada > Live" album that came out in Europe, which I don't have. Anyone know ^^^^ The Masada Live is a totally different record (one that Zorn did not allow to released and that can be considered as bootleg). > anything about that one? > Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Zorn's Labels? Date: 13 Nov 1996 15:01:54 -0800 On Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:41:08 +1100 (EST) Mr R Teh wrote: > > >Does anyone know when FWIII is coming out on Tzadik? I thought it was > >already on Tzadik, but this may explain why the local record stores have > been > >scratching thier heads over my orders lately... > > According to the Tzadik homepage, the following will > be released on the 19 Nov 1996. There's no mention of FWIII. > > Kletka Red: Hijacking --- Coming on November 19, 1996 > New Klezmer Trio: Masks and Faces --- Coming on November 19, 1996 > Jon: Smoke --- Coming on November 19, 1996 > John Zorn: Filmworks V: Tears of Ecstasy --- Coming on November 19, 1996 > John Zorn: Filmworks VI --- Coming on November 19, 1996 And do not forget: CRONOLOGIA by Peter Scherer CUE SHEETS by Steve Beresford In fact, these seven records have been available for one month with the Bar Kokhab shows (got mine three weeks ago in NY). Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: naked city questions Date: 13 Nov 1996 15:20:26 -0800 On Wed, 13 Nov 1996 17:48:59 -0500 (EST) slawlor wrote: > > Hi there. I saw "Grand guignol" by naked city on cdconnection and I was > wondering what it was like. The reviews of the other naked city disks > that I saw remind me that the content might be similar to zorn's naked > city release? Is this accurate? > Also, I think the review of radio by the same group said that it was > cover versions of other famous songs? Does anyone have a track list of > what songs are on this, and are they movie themes or jazz classics that > they perform or what? Thanks for the information. All the songs on RADIO are Zorn's compositions. But what you say can be understood because RADIO is in the same spirit as NAKED CITY (the first Naked City), on which many covers are available. 146 - RADIO: Naked City 1/ Asylum (Zorn) 1:54 2/ Sunset Surfer (Zorn) 3:22 3/ Party Girl (Zorn) 2:33 4/ The Outsider (Zorn) 2:27 5/ Triggerfingers (Zorn) 3:31 6/ Terkmani Teepee (Zorn) 3:56 7/ Sex Fiend (Zorn) 3:31 8/ Razorwire (Zorn) 5:28 9/ The Bitter And The Sweet (Zorn) 4:48 10/ Krazy Kat (Zorn) 1:51 11/ The Vault (Zorn) 4:44 12/ Metaltov (Zorn) 2:07 13/ Poisonhead (Zorn) 1:09 14/ Bone Orchard (Zorn) 3:53 15/ I Die Screaming (Zorn) 2:29 16/ Pistol Whipping (Zorn) 0:57 17/ Skatekey (Zorn) 1:24 18/ Shock Corridor (Zorn) 1:05 19/ American Psycho (Zorn) 6:09 Recorded in April 1992 Produced by John Zorn John Zorn: alto, vocals; Bill Frisell: guitar; Wayne Horvitz: keyboards; Fred Frith: bass; Joey Baron: drums; Yamatsuka Eye: vocals. 1993 - Avant (Japan), Avan 003 (CD) Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BIRD BRAIN Subject: Great day at the record store Date: 13 Nov 1996 18:52:59 -0500 Went to a record store yesterday to browse around, and found a copy of Heiner Goebbels' "The Man in the Elevator" on vinyl and still sealed for only $4.00! Great finds like this help make life wonderful. Stuff like this is hard to find here in Cowtown, USA but when it does turn up it's usually cheap 'cause no one else wants it. I found Bar Kokhba at the same store for $14, and I also found Chadourne's "There Be No Tears Tonight" and "2000 Statues and the English Channel" for 3 bucks a pop. Now I just need to fix the turntable so I can enjoy them - my girlfriend's damn pet rabbit ate the power cord. Kevin Kobielusz Denver, CO ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Spirer Subject: Re: Hellborg, Lane, Q-258 Date: 13 Nov 1996 16:50:45 -0800 At 06:05 AM 11/12/96 -0800, Sean Terwilliger wrote: >You wrote: > >>and Jeff Sipe( Apt. Q258) told me that in the near future they may be >doing a >>record, produced by Bill Laswell and featuring the nephew of Nusrat >Fateh Ali >>Khan on vocals. Would be very interesting. >> >> > > >Wow! Jeff, any truth to this? I'm on an airplane reading this a few days after it was sent. I will have to look into this, I hadn't heard anything about it. > > Jeff Spirer http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/ Axiom Records/Material Communications ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BIRD BRAIN Subject: Re:Naked City Questions Date: 13 Nov 1996 20:34:04 -0500 Hey, Scott Grand Guignol is the same as Torture Garden except G.G. has a few hearty extra tracks of Naked City playing the compositions of some of Zorn's favorite composers. Naked City plays awesome transcriptions of Claude Debussy's "The Sunken Cathedral" (originally written for piano) as well as some preludes by Scriabin and many more. Radio is more like the self titled Naked City album IMO. More riff-oriented (for lack of a better term) tunes - all Zorn originals I believe (no covers). Buy them both - if you don't like them then you have permission to flame me. Just kidding. Kevin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: zorn's music Date: 13 Nov 1996 11:43:26 -0800 Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n wrote: > I'd > say that Masada would be an amazing introduction to Zorn's music. ... for everybody except for the dweebs and mooks currently declaring Ornette Coleman a fraud and a sham on rec.music.bluenote... Steve Smith (who still thinks the best intro to Zorn is THE BIG GUNDOWN) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: lamerikx@win.tue.nl (Frankco Lamerikx) Subject: Re: Zorn's Labels? Date: 14 Nov 1996 09:28:33 +0100 (MET) What's coming out when? > > Filworks III - VI are supposedly going to be out by next March. Tzadik > ^^ > > This one is out (with volume V). It's out in Europe too (ahead of its offical release date). I bought my copies of both V and VI last Saturday from a regular store. I wondered, though, when Filmworks IV is going to be released, and why Zorn would break the chronology on that series? Is Filmworks IV perhaps the long-awaited Elegant Spanking soundtrack? > > > is also releasing a new BURT BACHARACH album of Judaica. (Yes, THAT Burt > > Bacharach!). I don't know who's playing on it as of now. Masad Seven > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^6 > > Forgot the details but basically nobody from the NY downtown is missing > on it :-). It would be very cool if Mike Patton was involved in that album. He has the perfect voice for it. Mr. Bungle even played an easy tune standard called "Tower of Strength" (of which a Burt Bacharach version is available) in Australia recently. Can we expect any collaboration of Zorn and the guys from Mr. Bungle in the future? I know Trey Spruance [Mr. Bungle guitar afficionado and all-around keyboard wizard] told me he did some recording with Zorn when Bungle was in New York last year. Frankco. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: basilar@cris.com (david m rothbaum) Subject: silly technical question/s... Date: 14 Nov 1996 00:43:59 -0700 does anyone know the brand of instrument mr. zorn uses? i belive his alto is an old selmer but i wanted to know might there be more than one instrument he normally uses? and maybe what clarinet he uses? and also what brand of reed? strenth? does he make his own? etc. this may be a real strech but i know zorn veiws the studio as an instrument itself and id venture a guess that he is well aquainted with the technical aspects of working in the studio. does he have a home studio of any sort? what preferences he has for mikes, effects, recording equipment etc? he seems to be incorporating the synclaviar recently and seeminly midi as well (film works II) though that is a guess. does he turn the knobs himself? any info on this would be great as well as some other thoughts on the matter. david O O O O O O -|- -|- -|- -|- -|- -|- / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ "can you point out the man who robbed you?" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: martinj@SONOMA.EDU Subject: Re: zorn's music Date: 14 Nov 1996 01:00:37 -0800 (PST) I don't know. My intro to zorn was a tape with Torture garden & Guts of a virgin (painkiller) on it. I was pretty much hooked. On Wed, 13 Nov 1996, Steve Smith wrote: > Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n wrote: > > > I'd > > say that Masada would be an amazing introduction to Zorn's music. > > ... for everybody except for the dweebs and mooks currently declaring > Ornette Coleman a fraud and a sham on rec.music.bluenote... > > Steve Smith > (who still thinks the best intro to Zorn is THE BIG GUNDOWN) > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: N Vassiliou Subject: Re: Zorn's Labels? Date: 14 Nov 1996 10:55:47 +0000 (GMT) On Wed, 13 Nov 1996, Seth Gordon wrote: > Filworks III - VI are supposedly going to be out by next March. Tzadik Filmworks V and VI are already out. I saw them at my local specialist last week. They are both related to some sort of "S/M fantasy" or something... Nick Vassiliou York,UK ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: zorn's music Date: 14 Nov 1996 10:37:40 -0800 martinj@SONOMA.EDU wrote: > > I don't know. My intro to zorn was a tape with Torture garden & Guts of > a virgin (painkiller) on it. I was pretty much hooked. Well, sure, but you and me and Jascha and probably everyone else on this list are FAR from the normal average listener for whom Masada was being suggested as an introduction... :-) Steve Smith (still fondly remembering Carol Emanuel SCREAMING HER LUNGS OUT five feet away at the Knitting Factory, Spillane, Sept. 1993...) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Seth Gordon Subject: Re: naked city Date: 14 Nov 1996 09:33:55 -0500 Radio is NOT cover tracks, simply pieces designed to fit into particular "genre" stylings. There were rumors of an all-covers album a few years back, but that never came to fruition. Grand Guignol is covers of various twetieth-century chamber works, plus an extended 17-minute title track by Zorn. In addition, it contains "Tortue Garden" minus the songs that appeared on the "Naked City" album. Also: I spoke with Mark Perlson, manager of the Knitting Factory record label. He says the Knit will NOT be releasing the live Naked City box, and that either Tzadik or Avant most likely will. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matthew Ross Davis Subject: grand guignol interpretations Date: 13 Nov 1996 22:18:09 -0400 At 9:33 AM 11/14/96, Seth Gordon wrote: >Grand Guignol is covers of >various twetieth-century chamber works, plus an extended 17-minute title >track by Zorn. Clarification, if I may. Grand Guignol has interpretations of several 'classical' compositions, and not all of them are 20th century - Prophetiae Sibyllarum is the introduction of a large cycle of motets (of the same name) from the middle 16th century. Additionally, only the Messiaen (a movement in the Quartet for the End of Time) is a true 'chamber work' in the sense of a chamber ensemble. The Debussy and Scriabin are both solo piano, and the Ives was originally written for orchestra without words, which Ives himself latter arranged with text (that version is the one N.C. does here). GG is one of my favorites because of these interpretations - especially the Lassus and the Debussy, which I believe are truly artful interpretations. LA CATH=C9DRALE ENGLOUTIE (Debussy) [from 24 Preludes, Books I and II (1910, 1913)] THREE PRELUDES op. 74 (Scriabin) =20 Douloureus, d=E9chirant Tr=E9s Lent, contemplatif Allegro drammatico PROPHETIAE SYBILLARUM (Orlando di Lasso) [this is actually spelled 'sibyllarum'] THE CAGE (Ives) LOUANGE A L'=C9TERNIT=C9 DE J=C9SUS (Messiaen) [from Quartet for the End of Time] | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | m-a-t-t-h-e-w r-o-s-s d-a-v-i-s university of maryland http://www.butterfly.net/mozart school of music | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Greetje Bijma Date: 14 Nov 1996 12:17:26 -0800 Jan-Wen Lu wrote: > > I especailly adore the voice of Greetje Bijma. I'm trying > to find her two CD's on Enja Records. > 1.Tales Of A Voice (TIP-888808 2, Tiptoe) > 2.Barefoot (ENJ-8038 2, Enja)--with Marilyn Crispell & Mark Dresser. > Can anyone provide good ways to mail-order them? I'm afraid they were > currently out-of-print. Ah, it's nice to see this name pop up on the Zorn List! While there's no direct connection to Mr. Zorn's Neighborhood, I've always felt that anyone into the antics of Shelley Hirsch, Phil Minton or David Moss would probably dig Ms. Bijma. Greetje Bijma (pronounced something like HRITE-yah BYE-mah) is one of the most wonderfully inventive vocalists I'm aware of. She has been a big part of the European jazz scene for some time but is very little known elsewhere. The two albums you mention, TALES OF A VOICE and BAREFOOT, are only out of print in the U.S. -- as lamentable as that may be, it does mean you should be able to find them readily in Europe, so perhaps someone on the Zorn List could point you to a reputable European dealer on the WWW. Both of those albums are filled with a maniacal intensity and a typically Dutch sense of the absurd (as with Misha Mengelberg, Han Bennink and Willem Breuker).Bijma can also be heard on one of Breuker's funniest discs, "Heibel" (BVHaast Records), the one packaged in a wooden cheesebox. The good news is that Enja will be issuing (I believe this month in Europe and in January or February in the U.S.) a new album which I think is her best yet. The album is called FREEZING SCREENS (Enja 9063) and is credited to all three participants: keyboardist Jasper van't Hof, Bijma, and percussionist Pierre Favre. It's an incredible album recorded live and in the studio, van't Hof's music and Bijma's words. There are things Bijma does on this disc that make my jaw drop. And yes, though I am the publicist for Enja's American distributor, this is a purely personal recommendation, one that I'd make no matter what label this was on. So if you do appreciate wild vocal artistry, do think about checking this out. (It'll probably be filed under van't Hof since his name is first on the cover.) Steve Smith ssmith@kochint.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: N Vassiliou Subject: Re: zorn's music Date: 14 Nov 1996 16:28:11 +0000 (GMT) On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Steve Smith wrote: > martinj@SONOMA.EDU wrote: > > > > I don't know. My intro to zorn was a tape with Torture garden & Guts of > > a virgin (painkiller) on it. I was pretty much hooked. I'd agree with most people that The Big Gundown is the best introduction. I think most of the covers from Naked City (James Bond, Cicilian Clan) will also be appropriate although most of the LP probably is not.... Nicholas V. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: silly technical question/s... Date: 14 Nov 1996 09:55:50 -0800 On Thu, 14 Nov 1996 00:43:59 -0700 david m rothbaum wrote: > > does anyone know the brand of instrument mr. zorn uses? i belive his alto > is an old selmer but i wanted to know might there be more than one > instrument he normally uses? and maybe what clarinet he uses? and also > what brand of reed? strenth? does he make his own? etc. The only time the brand of the instruments he uses was mentioned on a record it was... about his huge collection of game calls :-). > this may be a real strech but i know zorn veiws the studio as an instrument > itself and id venture a guess that he is well aquainted with the technical > aspects of working in the studio. does he have a home studio of any sort? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Not to my knowledge. > what preferences he has for mikes, effects, recording equipment etc? he > seems to be incorporating the synclaviar recently and seeminly midi as well > (film works II) though that is a guess. does he turn the knobs himself? > > any info on this would be great as well as some other thoughts on the matter. Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: grand guignol interpretations Date: 14 Nov 1996 10:05:22 -0800 On Wed, 13 Nov 1996 22:18:09 -0400 Matthew Ross Davis wrote: > > At 9:33 AM 11/14/96, Seth Gordon wrote: > >Grand Guignol is covers of > >various twetieth-century chamber works, plus an extended 17-minute title > >track by Zorn. > > Clarification, if I may. > > Grand Guignol has interpretations of several 'classical' compositions, and > not all of them are 20th century - Prophetiae Sibyllarum is the > introduction of a large cycle of motets (of the same name) from the middle > 16th century. Additionally, only the Messiaen (a movement in the Quartet > for the End of Time) is a true 'chamber work' in the sense of a chamber > ensemble. The Debussy and Scriabin are both solo piano, and the Ives was ^^^^^^^ But there is an orchestra version of it, right? I have a 2xCD of orchestral works by Debussy and I am pretty sure that LA CATHEDRALE ENGLOUTIE is on it. Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hertzman@squeegee.cs.nyu.edu (Aaron Hertzmann) Subject: Masada-like recommendations? Date: 14 Nov 1996 16:59:32 -0500 (EST) Hello - I was really blown away by the Bar Kokhba concert at the Knitting Factory, and the CD is great too; I'm especially fond of the guitar tracks, like "Mahlah." Can someone reccomend similar recordings? How are "Kristallnacht" and "The Book of Heads"? I've also got "Gimel," and I generally enjoy the faster tracks; which of the Masada recordings do you recommend? Also, can you recommend good record stores in Greenwich Village? I just moved here from Houston, TX two months ago. So far, I've found Other Music (and, of course, Tower.) Aaron ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Benton Subject: Steve Beresford Date: 14 Nov 1996 18:21:20 -0600 (CST) Anybody know anything about this guy, more specifically his album "Signals for Tea"? That record features Beresford on piano and vocals, as well as Zorn, Douglas, Cohen, and Wollesen. Looks amusing to say the least, Zorn and friends are all listed on 'backing vocals' as well as their respective instruments. Thanks all. Later... -Tom- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matthew Ross Davis Subject: Re: grand guignol interpretations Date: 14 Nov 1996 20:00:13 -0400 >> ensemble. The Debussy and Scriabin are both solo piano, and the Ives was > ^^^^^^^ > >But there is an orchestra version of it, right? I have a 2xCD of orchestral >works by Debussy and I am pretty sure that LA CATHEDRALE ENGLOUTIE is on >it. There may be - I've never heard it. Originally it's a piano piece, and someone (maybe Debussy himself) may have arranged it for orchestra. Considering that, though, it's possible Zorn gave the orchestra parts to the Naked City members for playing. | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | m-a-t-t-h-e-w r-o-s-s d-a-v-i-s university of maryland http://www.butterfly.net/mozart school of music | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: word on Bar Kochba Date: 14 Nov 1996 17:30:44 -0800 On Thu, 10 Oct 1996 17:38:35 -0500 Mark Perlson wrote: > > The word on the double Masada CD: > > One song on the second CD will be changed. It is the same song (so the > artwork will be the same) although there will be a different version of it > or something. Are you not thinking about... BIBLE LAUNCHER. Never heard about a second (different) pressing of BAR KOKHBA. Any infos on the Japanese Third Person (saw it at the KF and stupidly forgot to buy it :-(. Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BIRD BRAIN Subject: M.G.H.Z.A. - My Girlfriend Hates Zorn Anonymous Date: 14 Nov 1996 21:07:39 -0500 Hey Bob, I've never been to a record swap meet full of stamp collectors, so I don't know what you mean. Anyway, I know how ya feel. The only Zorn my girlfriend likes is the 'Chinatown" cut on the Naked City album. She loves Bar Kokhba though - have you tried that? I think she'd like the stuff live though 'cause she usually does. She never liked David Murray 'til I took her to seem him in Boulder a few months ago. But I'm not taking any chances for the Masada show - leaving her home so my buddies and I can enjoy th music we've been waiting years to hear live. BTW are you the guy in the beer commercial who is accused by the drill sergeant of leaving beer in the barracks? Kevin Kobielusz ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: basilar@cris.com (david m rothbaum) Subject: Yankees Date: 14 Nov 1996 18:25:03 -0700 pardon my spelling....is this album still in print? thanks, david O O O O O O -|- -|- -|- -|- -|- -|- / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ "can you point out the man who robbed you?" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton Subject: Re: M.G.H.Z.A. - My Girlfriend Hates Zorn Anonymous Date: 14 Nov 1996 22:32:52 -0500 (EST) I don't have much advice here, but I do have a story. An ex-girlfriend of mine once burst in on me with a concerned look on her face while I was exercising to _Locus Solus_. "Oh my God," she said, "it sounds like they're torturing their instruments!" Actually, a few months later she was in the UK without me and calling me excitedly after checking out Company Week on her own. But I have no idea how I brought her around. It must have been love. Chris Hamilton Dept. of Philosophy University of Pittsburgh Pittsburgh, PA USA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: martinj@SONOMA.EDU Subject: Re: Masada-like recommendations? Date: 14 Nov 1996 19:11:34 -0800 (PST) Hello. "Book of Heads" are 32 etudes composed by John Zorn and performed by Marc Ribot for solo guitar. There are sounds on this album that you never thought a guitar could make. If you are a technical guitar freak, then this is for you. In comparison to the solo guitar tracks on "Bar Kokhba" they are completely different. Same dude playing, same dude com- posing, but a different stlye of music. I wish I could say more, but I wouldn't be able to do it the proper justice. "Kristallnacht" is part of John Zorn's "Radical Jewish Culture" concept. Although it sounds nothing like "Masada" or "Bar Kokhba" it can be class- ified in the same area. Overall it is a great record. Like all of his work, it strikes up many emotions. Musically it is dark and passonate. John Zorn does not play on it. I don't know if you have heard "Elegy" or not, but it has some similarties. If you haven't heard "Elegy" just get it. It makes me smile. It is the only record I'm scared to listen to at night sometimes. So either it is really scarey or I'm a total puss. "Masada". I think you should get all of them if you can. My favorites are one and three. There is a live "Masada" album out. I don't have it with me right now, but the label is out of New York. Write later if you are interested and I can get it for you. In fact, I almost like the live one the best because the improvisation in incredible. I hope I answered your questions. When in doubt, grab your sack and yell at the top of your lungs "My balls are humungus. They weigh twenty pounds. I like to rest them on my feet!!!" On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, Aaron Hertzmann wrote: > Hello - > > I was really blown away by the Bar Kokhba concert at the Knitting Factory, > and the CD is great too; I'm especially fond of the guitar tracks, like > "Mahlah." Can someone reccomend similar recordings? How are > "Kristallnacht" and "The Book of Heads"? I've also got "Gimel," and I > generally enjoy the faster tracks; which of the Masada recordings do you > recommend? > > Also, can you recommend good record stores in Greenwich Village? I just > moved here from Houston, TX two months ago. So far, I've found Other > Music (and, of course, Tower.) > > Aaron > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Torsten Nielsen Subject: Adress Date: 15 Nov 1996 08:04:57 +0100 (MET) Hey, I've ordered the Zorn/Eye "Live In China" 100 cd box, and now I would like to pay for it but I have lost the adress. To what adress do I send my 250 dollars? Thanks! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: martinj@SONOMA.EDU Subject: rodan cd Date: 14 Nov 1996 23:03:03 -0800 (PST) I am writing for infromation on the John Zorn cd "Rodan". Specifically, whether it is still in print (I believe that it is on the the Swiss(?) label, Hat Hut) and if so, what it is like? Also are the live "Masadas" still going to come out on the Tzdik label. And, is Naked City ever going to do any more albums? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nonomura Yoshihiko Subject: Re: rodan cd Date: 15 Nov 1996 16:39:03 +0900 >From: martinj@SONOMA.EDU Message-Id: > I am writing for infromation on the John Zorn cd "Rodan". > Specifically, whether it is still in print (I believe that it is > on the the Swiss(?) label, Hat Hut) and if so, what it is like? At first, this is an album of Sato Michihiro, a Japanese Tsugaru-Shamisen player. John just produced this album. He never played in it. All he did there was to choose musicians for collaboration with Mr.SM. Here Sato did not fight with Fred Frith, Steve Coleman or Christian Marclay---he just juxtaposed/transformed their music. Totally, very nice album. Yes, still available on hat hut---a Swiss label on which JZ's "News for LULU" and "Cobra" were released. > Also are the live "Masadas" still > going to come out on the Tzdik label. ??? I got it a few month ago.... -- Y.Nonomura ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Spirer Subject: Re: zorn's music Date: 14 Nov 1996 23:47:34 -0800 At 11:43 AM 11/13/96 -0800, Steve Smith wrote: >... for everybody except for the dweebs and mooks currently declaring >Ornette Coleman a fraud and a sham on rec.music.bluenote... Which is yet another validation for my refusal to bother with that newsgroup. There seems to be an effort on rmb to declare a lot of great musicians as worthless. I quit after reading some idiot say he could teach any teenager to play like Sonny Sharrock. Jeff Spirer http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/ Axiom Records/Material Communications ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: silver whale Subject: Re: Adress Date: 15 Nov 1996 14:13:09 +0200 (GMT+0200) On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, Torsten Nielsen wrote: > Hey, > I've ordered the Zorn/Eye "Live In China" 100 cd box, and now I would=20 > like to pay for it but I have lost the adress. To what adress do I send= =20 > my 250 dollars? >=20 > Thanks! Wasn=ABt the release postponed somewhere in near future (=AB97?) teemu ------------- e-mail: tkorpipa@siba.fi "There was coffee. Life would go on." Ruumen homepage: William Gibson:'The Winter Market' http://www.siba.fi/~tkorpipa/ruumen.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mr R Teh Subject: Marc Ducret recommendations Date: 15 Nov 1996 23:46:52 +1100 (EST) Hi all, Recently I've began appreciating the guitar playing on Marc Ducret who holds down the guitar for Tim Berne's Caos Totale and also Tim Berne's Bloodcount. I was especially taken in by his superb playing on Berne's Caos Totale album "Pace Yourself", especially on the second last track (and lengthiest one) "the legend of P-I" which is 26:21 mins. This tune goes from quiet duck-calls, whistle moment with minimum Japanese-styled drums, to ensemble out-jazz to weird blues. My fav is the weird blues moment of this tune. What I meant by weird blues is that, they band are playing in a slow bluesy tempo, but everyone seems to be playing the wrong thing, i.e. not exactly blues. During this passage, Marc did a fantastic non-blues solo, trying to sound bluesy but totally out!! I'm really impressed by it. Anyways, if anyone has any good recommendations on this guitarist, please do share them with me. I current own 2 albums with Ducret on it Tim Berne's Caos Totale "Pace Yourself" and Tim Berne's Bloodcount "Memory Select". Thanks all Regards, Richie Teh Maintainer of Drumnet http://www.clearview.com.au/drumnet Email: richie@c031.aone.net.au or drumnet@clearview.com.au *Want to display an Advertisment Banner on DrumNet, email for more infor :-) ** New contest on DrumNet. All you have to do is fill in the survey and be in the running for 3 CDs!!! Yes, 3 CDs!!! Amazing! Starts 21st Oct 96 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mr R Teh Subject: Masada live CD Date: 15 Nov 1996 23:49:50 +1100 (EST) >> Also are the live "Masadas" still >> going to come out on the Tzdik label. >??? I got it a few month ago.... >-- > Y.Nonomura Hang on, are you refering to the Jazz Door release or is this a completely new live release on Tzadik? Regards, Richie Teh Maintainer of Drumnet http://www.clearview.com.au/drumnet Email: richie@c031.aone.net.au or drumnet@clearview.com.au *Want to display an Advertisment Banner on DrumNet, email for more infor :-) ** New contest on DrumNet. All you have to do is fill in the survey and be in the running for 3 CDs!!! Yes, 3 CDs!!! Amazing! Starts 21st Oct 96 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Steve Beresford Date: 15 Nov 1996 10:48:56 -0800 Tom Benton wrote: > > Anybody know anything about this guy, more specifically his album "Signals > for Tea"? That record features Beresford on piano and vocals, as well as > Zorn, Douglas, Cohen, and Wollesen. Looks amusing to say the least, Zorn > and friends are all listed on 'backing vocals' as well as their respective > instruments. Thanks all. Later... > > -Tom- It's cocktail lounge music, pure and simple. Very droll and witty, very little of what you expect from Zorn (or even Beresford, who elsewhere is quite the formidable improvisor). I know numerous folks who can't stand it; personally I think it's swanky. Steve Smith ssmith@kochint.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Seth Gordon Subject: Re: Masada-like recommendations? Date: 15 Nov 1996 09:55:58 -0500 All of the Masada albums are worth getting. Book of Heads is more of an experimental guitar album- no heavy klezmer here. Kristallnacht is pretty excellent. It's a very angry album. Sort of an Industrial / Judaica / Noise combo. Greenwich Village? I've always thought Other was the best, but check out Mondo Kim's on St. Mark's Place, too. Odds are whatever you're looking for in the avant-garde you'll find at one of the two stores. Of all the Kim's in New York it's Mondo that has the best music selection, though sometimes you might want to stop by Kim's Underground, too. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark Corroto Subject: masada 11/14 Columbus Date: 15 Nov 1996 09:59:26 -0500 saw the first set of Masada at the Wexner art center Ohio State University (oh yeah the one with the undefeated football team) last night yes Greg Cohen was the bassist a bit strange affair, no one clapped as they took the stage, they proceded to discuss for what seemed like an eternity whether to play the scheduled opener cuz, i figured the crowd was full of grey hairs (probably elder jewish folk) zorn said "fuck it" and they tore into an Ornette tune. wow the jewish vwersion of 1959 Ornette Coleman. COOL they followed with all masada stuff, the crowd gave only one ovation, that was to Joey baron for a thunderous drum solo otherwise the crowd kinda was taken back by these NICE YOUNG MEN and their music........some kids in the back hooted for Naked City covers Cohen, and Douglas NEVER looked up Zorn did once to introduce the band did the music cook? swing? sometimes, the band seemed tenative...I'll blame it on first set jitters or is it just prepublicity drawing a uninformed crowd? The 7 or so people I taked to never heard a Masada tune others were crazed Naked City fans that didnt' know Ornette Coleman from Coleman Hawkins Mark Corroto SoS Jazz ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matthew Ross Davis Subject: Re: grand guignol interpretations Date: 15 Nov 1996 10:05:20 -0400 At 9:16 PM 11/14/96, slawlor wrote: >Hi there. Just out of curiosity, what does grand guignol mean if >anything at all? Zorn has some pretty strange titles for some of his >releases and I wonder what the titles mean? Thanks for the information. The "Grand Guignol" was a popular form of entertainment in Paris at the turn of the century - sort of the morbid equivalent to the British paying admission to visit Bedlam. Essentially, it was a live horror show. Here's the liner notes from the CD: Decades before our modern tradition of Splatter films, The Grand Guignol served up torture, incest, blood lust, insanity, mutilation and death to generations of fervid spectators. But the Grand Guignol is not simply the theater of horror that shocked Paris for 65 years from 1897 to 1962. It is the celebration of the darker side of our existence. It has always been with us. It will always be. Throughout history Artists have been obsessed with humanity's Taboos and Phobias. Aristotle, Aeschylus, Shakespeare, Sade, Goya, Poe, Dali, Bataille, Hitchcock, Irving Klaw, Bacon, Dan Oniroku, H.G. Lewis, Hermann Nitsch, Carcass. Our fascination with Fear, Terror and Evil, like Death itself, knows no racial, cultural or religious barriers. It resides in our collective unconscious, binding us together with ropes we try, but are ultimately unable to sever. Only through violent trauma, or the convulsive viscera of artistic vision does it rise to the surface, reminding us that is has, in truth, been there all along. | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | m-a-t-t-h-e-w r-o-s-s d-a-v-i-s university of maryland http://www.butterfly.net/mozart school of music | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Seth Gordon Subject: Re: grand guignol interpretations Date: 15 Nov 1996 10:03:22 -0500 The Grand Guignol was a sort of "atrocity theatre" in which painful and disturbing acts were enacted on stage for your viewing pleasure. Kind of a 19th century (or was it 18th?) "Faces of Death". See the movie "Bloodsucking Freaks" for a general idea. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DANIEL BITTON Subject: Re: silly technical question/s.. Date: 15 Nov 1996 10:14:09 -0500 (EST) I've got an old 1988 (wow! Imagine what it must have been like to live back then!) Down Beat (which of course I stole from school, as I would never pay for such rectal dribble) and there's a Zorn interview which lists his shit thusly: "John Zorn's alto sax is a mid-60's Selmer Mark VI; he has two setups for it. The first uses a #6M Dukoff metal mouthpiece and a Van Doren #2 reed. The second uses an old metal Brillheart mouthpiece with a Rico reed." Trust me though David Rothbaum, no point in spending 100$ on a Dukoff when there's nothing on this earth can beat the godly whistle of a fine 12$ Rico Royal. Ah, it makes me weep but to think of it! On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, david m rothbaum wrote: > does anyone know the brand of instrument mr. zorn uses? i belive his alto > is an old selmer but i wanted to know might there be more than one > instrument he normally uses? and maybe what clarinet he uses? and also > what brand of reed? strenth? does he make his own? etc. > > this may be a real strech but i know zorn veiws the studio as an instrument > itself and id venture a guess that he is well aquainted with the technical > aspects of working in the studio. does he have a home studio of any sort? > what preferences he has for mikes, effects, recording equipment etc? he > seems to be incorporating the synclaviar recently and seeminly midi as well > (film works II) though that is a guess. does he turn the knobs himself? > > any info on this would be great as well as some other thoughts on the matter. > > david > > O O O O O O > -|- -|- -|- -|- -|- -|- > / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ > > "can you point out the man who robbed you?" > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Seth Gordon Subject: Re: Adress Date: 15 Nov 1996 10:18:55 -0500 Send the $250 to: Seth Gordon Imports, 44 Franklin St. Apt. 4, New London CT, 06320, USA. Make checks payable to Seth Gordon. Please do not send cash in the US mail. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DANIEL BITTON Subject: Re: Adress Date: 15 Nov 1996 10:16:58 -0500 (EST) Is that for real? What the fuck is that? You're joking right? I don't get it. On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, Torsten Nielsen wrote: > Hey, > I've ordered the Zorn/Eye "Live In China" 100 cd box, and now I would > like to pay for it but I have lost the adress. To what adress do I send > my 250 dollars? > > Thanks! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Seth Gordon Subject: Re: Marc Ducret recommendations Date: 15 Nov 1996 10:32:14 -0500 Marc Ducret surely is one of the most amazing guitarists working, and his work with Tim Berne is exceptional. He has a couple of solo albums, but first I'd recommend going with some more Berne: I'd start with "Diminutive Mysteries"- a collaboration with Julius Hemphill featuring David Sanborn(!?) of all people. The Caos Totale band's "Nice View" is pretty excellent, and the album starts with an incredible Ducret solo. After that, the other two Bloodcount albums, and "Fractured Fairy Tales" pretty much rounds out the Ducret years-to-date with Berne. I might have forgotten one or two, but those are the stand-out ones. It may still be available in Europe, but I know it's out of print in America: Tim Berne's "Fulton St. Maul"- With Frisell, not Ducret, but some of the best work I've heard Bill F. do and one of the best TB albums. Ducret's solo albums are alot more "in" than his work with TB. Good stuff, though he tends to push the boundaries more when he's with Berne. His solo albums are both (I believe) pre-dating his Berne years, so I imagine his style has just changed alot. Seth Gordon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nathaniel Dorward Subject: Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #26 (Debussy/ G.Guignol) Date: 15 Nov 1996 12:02:59 -0400 (AST) The orchestration of "The Sunken Cathedral" was originally Ravel's, I believe. I'll add my vote: _Grand Guignol_ is a great album: I don't care much for the 17-minute title track, but the rest is prime Zorn (I even like the version of Messiaen's "Louange" better than my recording of the original version!). --N * Nate Dorward (ndorward@is2.dal.ca) website: http://is2.dal.ca/~ndorward/ * ...Cambridge, where chthonic severance dictates endless toil. --Peter Riley, _Alstonefield_ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: rodan cd Date: 15 Nov 1996 08:07:49 -0800 On Thu, 14 Nov 1996 23:03:03 -0800 (PST) martinj@SONOMA.EDU wrote: > > I am writing for infromation on the John Zorn cd "Rodan". It is a record by Sato Michihiro, with no appearance of Zorn on it (he only produced it). Few months ago, one Tower Records here (Portland, OR) had two copies that they were desesperate to sell... > Specifically, whether it is still in print (I believe that it is on the > the Swiss(?) label, Hat Hut) and if so, what it is like? Also are the live ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I think it is out of print but it is not yet a collector item. Meaning: you will find it, just a matter of months. > "Masadas" still going to come out on the Tzdik label. And, is Naked City > ever going to do any more albums? Yes, there will be Masadas on Tzadik but my impression (after talking to the persons running Tzadik), is that it is not at the top of their priority list :-). The reason being, of couse, the DIW output (which should go up to number 10). Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Adress Date: 15 Nov 1996 08:10:11 -0800 On Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:04:57 +0100 (MET) Torsten Nielsen wrote: > > Hey, > I've ordered the Zorn/Eye "Live In China" 100 cd box, and now I would > like to pay for it but I have lost the adress. To what adress do I send > my 250 dollars? Sound Factory Records 3/F, Seaview Centre 139-141 Hoi Bun Road Kwun Tong, Kowloon Hong Kong Tel: (852) 2345 8678 Fax: (852) 2763 5755 e-mail: sfactory@speednet.net Do not forget to send me its detailed description :-). Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Masada-like recommendations? Date: 15 Nov 1996 08:40:25 -0800 On Fri, 15 Nov 1996 09:55:58 -0500 Seth Gordon wrote: > > All of the Masada albums are worth getting. Book of Heads is more of an > experimental guitar album- no heavy klezmer here. Kristallnacht is > pretty excellent. It's a very angry album. Sort of an Industrial / > Judaica / Noise combo. Greenwich Village? I've always thought Other was ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Always? I thought the store opened few months ago... > the best, but check out Mondo Kim's on St. Mark's Place, too. Odds are > whatever you're looking for in the avant-garde you'll find at one of the > two stores. Of all the Kim's in New York it's Mondo that has the best > music selection, though sometimes you might want to stop by Kim's > Underground, too. With the following one, the list is complete: Downtown Music Gallery 211 East 5th Street New York, NY 10003 Tel: (212) 473-0043 Fax: Fax (212) 533-5059 e-mail: DMG@PANIX.COM Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Kowalski Subject: post Masada in Boston Date: 15 Nov 1996 12:45:14 -0500 Hi all ~ Masada put on an excellent show at the ICA the other night -- and my girl friend enjoyed it as well (at only point she lean over and mention similarities between Zorn's playing and a dying ostrich.) Now if only I was prepared for that long hair he was sporting... My own introduction to Zorn was through the self titled Naked City album, which remains a favorite among favorites. As a result I hunted down all Frisell and Horowitz discs I could. chow4now (fellow stamp collector) Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Torsten Nielsen Subject: Re: Adress Date: 15 Nov 1996 19:32:19 +0100 (MET) On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, DANIEL BITTON wrote: > Is that for real? What the fuck is that? You're joking right? I don't get it. I'm not joking, I just didn't make my point very clear. I ordered "Live In China" from Sound Factory, but lost their adress. So I was hoping that somebody on the Zorn list might know what it is... Jonas ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DANIEL BITTON Subject: Re: Adress Date: 15 Nov 1996 15:15:25 -0500 (EST) So there actually is such a thing as a 150 cd box set of Zorn and Eye? What's that sound like? On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, Torsten Nielsen wrote: > On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, DANIEL BITTON wrote: > > > Is that for real? What the fuck is that? You're joking right? I don't get it. > > I'm not joking, I just didn't make my point very clear. I ordered "Live > In China" from Sound Factory, but lost their adress. So I was hoping that > somebody on the Zorn list might know what it is... > > Jonas > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Beuchaw Subject: Re: _Live In China_ set Date: 15 Nov 1996 16:18:36 -0600 (CST) On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > On Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:04:57 +0100 (MET) Torsten Nielsen wrote: > > > > Hey, > > I've ordered the Zorn/Eye "Live In China" 100 cd box, and now I would > > like to pay for it but I have lost the adress. To what adress do I send > > my 250 dollars? > > Sound Factory Records > 3/F, Seaview Centre > 139-141 Hoi Bun Road > Kwun Tong, Kowloon > Hong Kong > > Tel: (852) 2345 8678 > Fax: (852) 2763 5755 > e-mail: sfactory@speednet.net > > Do not forget to send me its detailed description :-). > > Patrice. I second the opinion that "it was postponed" - last I heard, I got an email from the Sound Factory guy (reproduced below) that it was not gonna be out soon. If anybody *really* gets it, let us know.... Guess I should email Sound Factory again to see if it's really out..... cya brian Here's the msg I got from SF..... From sfactory@speednet.net Fri Nov 15 16:17:39 1996 Dear Brian, With regard to the Zorn / Eye CD set, i regret to inform you that this project has now been postponed until further notice; probably early next spring. Anyway, i'll keep you posted on the progress. Lastly, i would like to thank you for your interest and support on this project. Best regards, CORY LI ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: martinj@SONOMA.EDU Subject: Re: Adress Date: 15 Nov 1996 14:59:00 -0800 (PST) it sounds like about 3 months of cd after cd without leaving the room. If someone listens to it all in less than six months, I don't know whether to be impressed, or feel really, REALLY bad for them. On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, DANIEL BITTON wrote: > So there actually is such a thing as a 150 cd box set of Zorn and Eye? > What's that sound like? > > On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, Torsten Nielsen wrote: > > > On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, DANIEL BITTON wrote: > > > > > Is that for real? What the fuck is that? You're joking right? I don't get it. > > > > I'm not joking, I just didn't make my point very clear. I ordered "Live > > In China" from Sound Factory, but lost their adress. So I was hoping that > > somebody on the Zorn list might know what it is... > > > > Jonas > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Aaron J. Rabushka" Subject: Tzadik Adress Date: 15 Nov 1996 18:39:54 -0600 (CST) Does anybody have the snail-mail address for the Tzadik operation? Aaron J. Rabushka arabushk@mail.coin.missouri.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wlt4@aol.com Subject: Christian Marclay retro Date: 15 Nov 1996 22:04:35 -0500 There's a listing in the new issue of ICE for a Christian Marclay album called "Works 81-85" to be released by Touch & Go at an unspecified date. Anybody know anything about this? (T&G are also doing a God Is My Co-Pilot best-of and an album from the Vandermark Five.) Lang Thompson http://members.aol.com/wlt4/index.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BIRD BRAIN Subject: M.G.H.Z.A. Date: 15 Nov 1996 23:53:44 -0500 Exercising to Locus Solus, Mr. Hamilton? Sure beats sweatin' to the oldies I guess. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton Subject: Re: M.G.H.Z.A., Blegvad Date: 16 Nov 1996 01:36:51 -0500 (EST) Yep, it always gets my heart rate going when Blegvad yelps "What is there like a prick?" at the beginning of track 2. Speaking of which (he says, slyly diverting attention away from his own extremely eccentric behavior), does anyone know what Mr. Blegvad is up to these days? Chris Chris Hamilton Dept. of Philosophy University of Pittsburgh Pittsburgh, PA USA On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, BIRD BRAIN wrote: > Exercising to Locus Solus, Mr. Hamilton? Sure beats sweatin' to the oldies > I guess. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Beuchaw Subject: Re: Adress Date: 16 Nov 1996 00:56:18 -0600 (CST) On Fri, 15 Nov 1996 martinj@SONOMA.EDU wrote: > it sounds like about 3 months of cd after cd without leaving the room. > If someone listens to it all in less than six months, I don't know > whether to be impressed, or feel really, REALLY bad for them. > > > On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, DANIEL BITTON wrote: > > > So there actually is such a thing as a 150 cd box set of Zorn and Eye? > > What's that sound like? Actually, it's *100* CDs, not 150, and from what Sound Factory told me, the running times of each CD vary from about 1 minute to full-length (about 80 minutes), so I dunno how long the set actually is, but prob'ly not anywhere near 100+ hours..... cya brian ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey@aol.com Subject: new Tzadiks, Masada 7, Bailey's jungle record Date: 16 Nov 1996 02:46:04 -0500 Consumer buying tip: for those of you living in and about NYC, the Knitting Factory has copies of the new Tzadik CDs (well, the two Zorn releases anyway, not sure about the others), Masada 7 on DIW, and the Derek Bailey jungle record on Avant. Jon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marcin.Witkowski@wor.tvp.com.pl Subject: Robert Cahen's "La 2eme Jour" film Date: 16 Nov 1996 10:37:27 +0100 Few days ago I received a film (videoclip?) made by Robert Cahen titled "La 2eme Jour" for John Zorn's "Hommage a GODARD" music. It's only 9 min long but really unusual and fantastic. Does anybody know something more about it? Marcin Witkowski ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: john shiurba Subject: Re: Adress Date: 16 Nov 1996 03:05:12 -0700 > Actually, it's *100* CDs, not 150, and from what Sound Factory told me, > the running times of each CD vary from about 1 minute to full-length > (about 80 minutes), so I dunno how long the set actually is, but prob'ly > not anywhere near 100+ hours..... > i heard that one (or some) of the discs is (are) as short as 3 seconds. -- shiurba@sfo.com http://www.sfo.com/~shiurba ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: N Vassiliou Subject: Re: Adress Date: 16 Nov 1996 15:42:02 +0000 (GMT) On Sat, 16 Nov 1996, john shiurba wrote: > > Actually, it's *100* CDs, not 150, and from what Sound Factory told me, > > the running times of each CD vary from about 1 minute to full-length > > (about 80 minutes), so I dunno how long the set actually is, but prob'ly > > not anywhere near 100+ hours..... > > > i heard that one (or some) of the discs is (are) as short as 3 seconds. wow,that's so hip man..... so .. avantgarde... N.Vassiliou "play some music please" York,UK ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mason Wendell" Subject: Re: zorn's music Date: 16 Nov 1996 11:07:08 +0000 > Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 15:34:38 -0500 (EST) > From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" > To: zorn list > Subject: zorn's music I did a half-hour presentation of Zorn's music as a final project at school last summer. I did my best to cover the widest range of his stuff and still come away with some kind of sense of a "central zorn theme." I don't know how successful I was, (I would have preferred an hour) but I think I expanded a few people's views of how one person can stretch himself musically. Anyway, my point. After much deliberation, I decided that the best intro to my tape would be the first minute of "Classic Guide to Strategy"- some amazing squawks, etc. It's the most common type of sound in his music. And you might as well get it out of the way when introducing his music. If someone can't deal with some screaming then you should probably keep Zorn far away from this person. Mason ************************************************************ * Mason Wendell * * bassist\composer * *Prelapse- Naked City's music & new music for loud ensemble* * http://www.tiac.net/users/prelapse/mwendell.html * ************************************************************ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Justin Morrison Subject: Re: M.G.H.Z.A. - My Girlfriend Hates Zorn Anonymous Date: 16 Nov 1996 11:55:45 -0800 Hmm.. the first time my last girlfriend heard me listening to Zorn, she loved it. I never thought about this before, but she did "downsize" me about the time she had taped most of my Zorn CDs. Of course, her CD collection housed the Ex/Tom Cora albums, which are currently with me. Heh, heh. -J ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: N Vassiliou Subject: The Big Gundown(film) Date: 16 Nov 1996 17:23:23 +0000 (GMT) Could the film "The Big Gundown" be also called "The Big Silence"?Although,it is also from the same era(1968), directed by Sergio Corbucci and with music by Ennio Moricone, I could not find anything relating the film to the title "The Big Gundown". Has the title changed?Is it not the same film? Does anybody know anything about it? BBC1(UK) is showing it tonight at 12.10 if anybody's interested. Thanks N.Vassiliou York,Uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Pleshar Subject: japanese noise, etc for sale Date: 16 Nov 1996 11:30:13 CST pardon the commercial intrusion, but some of you may be interested in a message I just sent to rec.music.marketplace.vinyl. I am auctioning off a lot of Japanese stuff like Hanatarash, Null, ANP, and some other noise and experimental records. If you want me to send thelist directly to you, just let me know. Thanks, Rob Pleshar rpleshar@midway.uchicago.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: xander@sirius.com Subject: Re: Steve Beresford Date: 16 Nov 1996 20:34:54 -0800 >> Anybody know anything about this guy, more specifically his album "Signals >> for Tea"? That record features Beresford on piano and vocals, as well as >> Zorn, Douglas, Cohen, and Wollesen. Looks amusing to say the least, Zorn >> and friends are all listed on 'backing vocals' as well as their respective >> instruments. Thanks all. Later... I like this record a lot, but other than the often wistful lyrics, it's very swinging upbeat jazz, so beware. Also, the backing vocals only come in to play on a couple of tracks. I thought I read something here the other day about Beresford's new album for Tzadik being available at Masada shows. Anyone know anything about it? Cheers, Alexander ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: silver whale Subject: Re: zorn's music Date: 17 Nov 1996 13:26:26 +0200 (GMT+0200) On Thu, 14 Nov 1996, N Vassiliou wrote: > > > I don't know. My intro to zorn was a tape with Torture garden & Guts of > > > a virgin (painkiller) on it. I was pretty much hooked. > > I'd agree with most people that The Big Gundown is the best introduction. > I think most of the covers from Naked City (James Bond, Cicilian Clan) > will also be appropriate although most of the LP probably is not.... Emmm, one of the first Zorn(-related) records was actually the first Naked City and I loved it! Just the whole record. As an introduction the NC albums or Big Countdown could be quite good, because a) they present quite extreme elements of Zorn's music (love those sqweeks... :) but b) they do it in an entertaining way, so it is easy to 'get in'. The Big Gundown is also great because it has incredible array of great players on it (F.Frith, C.Marclay, D.Galas... what other record has a line-up like that?) On the other hand, Zorn doesn't play that much on BG, hmmm... Of course this whole 'introduction' business is a higly personal issue... Someone who is usually into noise-rock propably has more appetite for Painkiller than Masada... teemu ------------- e-mail: tkorpipa@siba.fi "There was coffee. Life would go on." Ruumen homepage: William Gibson:'The Winter Market' http://www.siba.fi/~tkorpipa/ruumen.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Torsten Nielsen Subject: Henry Kaiser Date: 17 Nov 1996 13:40:45 +0100 (MET) The Henry Kaiser guitar solo on "State of the Union" is great... Which of his cds are recommended? I have no idea were to start... Jonas ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: h davies Subject: ducret,robertson... Date: 17 Nov 1996 12:52:05 -0800 ducret plays acoustic guitar on louis sclavis''acoustic quartet'(ecm). Has anyone got info. on the new Herb Robertson cd 'sound implosions'(cimp 110)- i think it's a trio?( is he on anything else since 'certified'? )any info. on ellery eskelin's 'the sun died'(with ribot/wollenson?)or a mark feldman cd 'chromatic persuaders'? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: silver whale Subject: Re: Henry Kaiser Date: 17 Nov 1996 15:40:38 +0200 (GMT+0200) On Sun, 17 Nov 1996, Torsten Nielsen wrote: > The Henry Kaiser guitar solo on "State of the Union" is great... Which of > his cds are recommended? I have no idea were to start... > Jonas ^^^^^ (?? It says 'Torsten' above ... just wonderin'...) Kaiser has been on quite a 'few' records... I saw a selected(!) discography once that contained some 40-50 records, and this was back in '87 or something! Most of them are hard-to-come-by and were released via obscure, small labels (biiig suprise here... :) Anyway, my favourites: Crazy Backwards Alphabet, which is a more rock-orientated project... Somewhat (in)famous for the almost-perfect xerox-cover of a ZZ Top standard (what I of corse can't remember right now, dang!), perfect apart from the vocal, what is translated (or 'translated', I don't know... :) to russian... What propably describes the overal vibe quite well: Zany musicians havin' fun... It's great. [an afterthought: is it 'La Grande'?] His solo acoustic (or just solo?) record, quite recent (95?). I can't remember the name again (what have I been eating lately?), but it's lemon tweezer something... I don't own this myself but it is very funny and weird. All (both?) the French-Frith-Kaiser-Thompson records. More nice music in the CBA vein: Crazy covers, some good original material and great, great, great guitar playing... If you can find them, the older records with the good ol' Eugene Chadbourne are highly amusing and uncompromising affairs... Someone described them sounding as "two or more men fighting in a studio full of toys and misc. percussion 'instruments' and occasionally bumb eachover in the guitar(s) lying around" or something. I can't put it better :) teemu ------------- e-mail: tkorpipa@siba.fi "There was coffee. Life would go on." Ruumen homepage: William Gibson:'The Winter Market' http://www.siba.fi/~tkorpipa/ruumen.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: M.G.H.Z.A. - My Girlfriend Hates Zorn Anonymous Date: 17 Nov 1996 09:26:32 -0800 >Hey Bob, >I've never been to a record swap meet full of stamp collectors, so I don't know >what you mean. Anyway, I know how ya feel. The only Zorn my girlfriend >likes is the 'Chinatown" cut on the Naked City album. She loves Bar Kokhba >though - have you tried that? I think she'd like the stuff live though 'cause >she usually does. She never liked David Murray 'til I took her to seem him in >Boulder a few months ago. But I'm not taking any chances for the Masada >show - leaving her home so my buddies and I can enjoy th music we've been >waiting years to hear live. I used a few cuts from Bar Kochba to fill out the end of a tape of Russian/Jewish folk songs for a my girlfriend's mother. She loves it. I can't believe that Zorn has made a parent-friendly record. I suppose I'll have to make her a Painkiller comp tape next... ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Susan Birkwood Subject: Re: _Live In China_ set Date: 17 Nov 1996 13:31:41 -0500 (EST) Hey, re: the Zorn/Eye 100 cd set, I read in WIRE that it was due out this spring ('97) Regards, Chris Cole ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Greg Mills Subject: Re: Henry Kaiser, M.G.H.Z.A. Date: 17 Nov 1996 14:32:58 -0700 The most accesable and balanced Henry Kaiser CD I've come accross is "We Hope You Like Our New Direction". It goes from blues, to weird Downtown stuff, to a REALLY GOOD (this is not a joke) cover version of "Rock On". Ibelieve it's on Restless Records. I have this friend Grace who lives on Broadway in Oakland, CA and her street number is the same as HK's address on Broadway Terrace, so she got his mail a couple of times. Neat huh? As for M.G.H.Z.A., my friend Mark's ex actually vomited listening to Naked City. They were on a car trip and she said all that sudden " awfulstopping and starting" gave her vertigo and she puked. Damn! Greg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wlt4@aol.com Subject: Re: Henry Kaiser Date: 17 Nov 1996 18:20:59 -0500 There's a reissue of Outside Pleasures and Aloha called Outside Aloha Pleasures. It's on Atavistic, which is turning into quite an interesting label. Haven't actually heard the disc so i don't know if the two albums are complete. Lang Thompson ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kevinn@seis.com (Kevin Neales) Date: 17 Nov 1996 20:40:52 -0500 I was checking out the imdb web site and ran Zorn's name. They list a few movies that he has composed music for that I haven't heard of. They are Thieve's Quartet, Hoelderlin Comics, Maoghai(aka Sadistic City). Has anybody seen any of these movies. Are the available on video. Kevin Neales kevinn@seis.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rizzi@netcom.com (m. rizzi) Subject: wrist slap and praise Date: 17 Nov 1996 17:31:54 -0800 (PST) Attention Zorn-List Subscribers and Fellow Stamp Collectors A couple of reminders from your friendly list fascist (that's me) about a few peeves: 1. When you attribute (>) someone elses post: minimize (cut down) the attribution, remove the previous poster's signature line. Leave just enough to give context to your reply. DON'T ATTRIBUTE 100 LINES OF TEXT, THEN POST A TWO LINE COMMENT. That is a true waste of bandwidth and disk space. 2. Please only send simple text (ASCII), anything else can cause to your prose to be interspersed with funny symbols like ^t and =20 when read by others. European and Mac users take special note here. 3. When sending a copy of private email to the list, please make sure that you remove the email headers. Not doing so has the unfortunate side effect of breaking the digest. 4. The majordomo list server software will ONLY send messages to the zorn-list from a known subscriber. If you post from a different address than you originally subscribed then your messsages come to me rather than the list. Normally, this is a rare occurrence, but it has happened a real lot in the last week. Phewww! Boy can I blather a lot. :) Now for da praise. It's great to see the increased quality and frequency of discussion of late. All 449 of you rule! Keep it up. cheers, mike rizzi "Another nerd with a soulpatch" -=home=- http://www.meer.net/~browbeat/ ------ browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 --------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rizzi@netcom.com (m. rizzi) Subject: Re: Zorn's Labels? Date: 17 Nov 1996 18:11:18 -0800 (PST) >>...Don't know the exact reason why, but having two labels >>he completely controls makes me think that he does not need help from >>anybody to release his music. >I'm sure he doesn't need help. I also suspect he enjoys releasing stuff on >a variety of labels, perhaps to give collectors something to feel proud >about. I'd be REALLY suprised that he gives two shits what collectors thinks. It's probably for more pragmatic reasons. I do know that every record label (even majors) have a limit on how many different recordings they can produce in a year. It's not like a record label has infinite resources. mike "Another nerd with a soulpatch" -=home=- http://www.meer.net/~browbeat/ ------ browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 --------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rizzi@netcom.com (m. rizzi) Subject: Re: Masada-like recommendations? Date: 17 Nov 1996 18:18:14 -0800 (PST) >When in doubt, grab your sack and yell at the top of your lungs >"My balls are humungus. They weigh twenty pounds. I like to rest them on >my feet!!!" Now it's postings like this that make me proud to be associated with the zorn-list. standing ovation, rizzi ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox Subject: recordings for trade Date: 18 Nov 1996 13:41:43 +1100 (EDT) Howdy, I'm just wondering if any Uk subscribers to the list might have copies of some BBC Radio 3 programs they wouldn't mind to dub for me. I've got live recordings of Fred Frith, Robin Holcomb, the Horvitz/ Morris/ Previte Trio (all from the Festival of Perth a few years back), and John Rose and a bunch of crazies giving "Violin Music In The Age Of Shopping" its Australian premiere; all from our own national broadcaster that I can, at least, offer to trade. OK, programs in questionn are John Zorn's discursion on the cartoon scoring of Carl Stallings, "A Corny Concerto" (broadcast 18th Feb and repeated on the 14th August this year) and "Mixing It" from the 15th of July and 12th of August (with a live recording of the Otomo Yoshihide/ Steve Beresford Duo). Thanks much; meantime go well, stay free... Jim K ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? Subject: Re: Zorn's Labels? Date: 17 Nov 1996 19:48:34 -0800 (PST) On Sun, 17 Nov 1996, m. rizzi wrote: > I do know that every record label (even majors) have > a limit on how many different recordings they can > produce in a year. It's not like a record label > has infinite resources. on the other hand, there's Muslimguaze who has been putting out at least one CD a month lately... WUP. obZorn: i noticed that the unofficial Cadence web site hasn't been updated for quite some time. is this going to change? well, i read somewhere that "More News For Lulu" is now out of print. of course, i kept putting off purchase of this CD and now i can't seem to locate at any local record havens. yeah, yeah. i know i'm being a lazy sod - i could just head on down to the local Tower and check the recent issue. does anyone know if Cadence still has copies of this disc? i suppose it's time to get a subscription already.. anyway! the Masada show in SF (11/15) was astounding. was the multimedia barrage something that Zorn wanted or normal fare for the Maritime Hall? hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox Subject: Trespass Date: 18 Nov 1996 17:24:19 +1100 (EDT) Oh, unnh, this one is a bit more embarassing; leastways for me. Mr Roussel kindly thanks me in the new zorn discography for mailing re: Filmworks 2 (Zorn had been commissioned to do the score, but those inexorable MCA studio execs baulked, and got Ry Cooder to come up with his own perfectly competent but somewhat lesser alternative). I neither expected nor deserve this thanks, however: I'd been clued up by Phil Brophy, who interviewed Zorn for the catalogue of the Kaboom! Explosive Animation From Japan And America exhibition at the MCA in Sydney. I e-mailed Patrice this info Friday, but until he can get around to striking me out, this looks like the best place to assuage my conscience. Heck, far from seeking self-aggrandisement, I was just looking to share this gem of useless trivia. Anyways, I guess I'll have to be more careful next time. go well, stay free... Jim K ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Tzadik Adress Date: 18 Nov 1996 10:51:24 -0800 Aaron J. Rabushka wrote: > > Does anybody have the snail-mail address for the Tzadik operation? 61 East Eighth Street, Suite 126, New York, NY 10003, USA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DANIEL BITTON Subject: Re: Masada-like recommendations? Date: 18 Nov 1996 09:41:45 -0500 (EST) Amen! On Sun, 17 Nov 1996, m. rizzi wrote: > >When in doubt, grab your sack and yell at the top of your lungs > >"My balls are humungus. They weigh twenty pounds. I like to rest them on > >my feet!!!" > > Now it's postings like this that make me > proud to be associated with the zorn-list. > > standing ovation, > rizzi > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Henry Kaiser Date: 18 Nov 1996 11:26:57 -0800 Wlt4@aol.com wrote: > > There's a reissue of Outside Pleasures and Aloha called Outside Aloha > Pleasures. It's on Atavistic, which is turning into quite an interesting > label. Haven't actually heard the disc so i don't know if the two albums are > complete. I agree that Atavistic is becoming very interesting but must interject that OUTSIDE ALOHA PLEASURES is on Dexter's Cigar, the Drag City offshoot run by Jim O'Rourke and David Grubbs. The disc contains all of the solo tracks from both albums, with none of the band tracks. Regarding Henry: HOPE YOU LIKE OUR NEW DIRECTION is a good intro to his work but may be hard to find as the label is defunct. LEMON FISH TWEEZER is also a fine intro but for a similarly defunct label. There have been many many arguments about this next one, but I really love the sound of WIREFORKS, the duet with Derek Bailey on Shanachie. Less controversial and just as beautiful is Henry's duet album with Jim O'Rourke on Victo, TOMORROW KNOWS WHERE YOU LIVE. There is some good music to be found on ETERNITY BLUE, Henry's all Grateful Dead covers album on Shanachie (particularly a romping "Blues for Allah" with pianist Marilyn Crispell), but I would advise avoiding the band SECOND SIGHT (Shanachie) unless you're really into the Dead... it's much closer to their bag than Henry's. Finally, although it's only tangentally Henry's music, I am extremely fond of WORLD OUT OF TIME VOL. 1 (Shanachie), the first of the Kaiser/David Lindley albums recorded in Madagascar. Those who love it are encouraged to hear the subsequent two volumes, but the first is plenty for the casual fan. There is some interesting music in the Kaiser/Lindley albums from Norway, THE SWEET SUNNY NORTH v. 1 & 2, but not much playing from Henry. Steve Smith (not in any way associated with Shanachie's publicity department) ssmith@kochint.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Seth Gordon Subject: Re: Henry Kaiser Date: 18 Nov 1996 10:27:58 -0500 Kaiser's work falls into two main categories- His avant-garde stuff and a host of more rock-n-roll oriented matierial. For the more experimental works, I'd recommend starting with "The Five Heavenly Truths" on FOT records, or "Lemon Fish Tweezer" on Cunieform if you just want solo guitar improvs. In his "rock star guitar god" style, I'd go for "Those who know History are Doomed to Repeat It" on SST- get the CD, it has bonus tracks. The album consists mostly of Grateful Dead and Captain Beefheart covers, with a couple oddities like the "Theme from the Andy Griffith Show" thrown in for good fun. His guitar work is MIND-NUMBING on this album. And what a band! Joey Baron on the drums, Hank Roberts on the cello, and so many more I'm not even going to bother listing them. The 40+ minute version of "Dark Star" is one of the spookiest songs I own, and it never fails to give Dead-heads a good scare! -Seth Gordon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Spirer Subject: Re: Trespass Date: 18 Nov 1996 07:37:01 -0800 At 05:24 PM 11/18/96 +1100, James Douglas Knox wrote: >Oh, unnh, this one is a bit more embarassing; leastways for me. Mr Roussel >kindly thanks me in the new zorn discography for mailing re: Filmworks 2 >(Zorn had been commissioned to do the score, but those inexorable >MCA studio execs baulked, and got Ry Cooder to come up with his own >perfectly competent but somewhat lesser alternative). "Lesser" in what sense? Or are we only allowed to pray to one god here? Jeff Spirer http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/ Axiom Records/Material Communications ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Henry Kaiser Date: 18 Nov 1996 12:40:26 -0800 > I'd recommend starting with "The Five Heavenly Truths" on FOT > records, or "Lemon Fish Tweezer" on Cunieform if you just want solo > guitar improvs. Aw, geez. Seth has just pointed out the error in my Kaiser post. Cuneiform is most certainly not defunct. I was in fact thinking of THE FIVE HEAVENLY TRUTHS on FOT. I tend to lump those two records together, they "feel" similar to me and are both recommended. Steve Smith ssmith@kochint.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: martinj@SONOMA.EDU Subject: 11/15/96 Date: 18 Nov 1996 10:38:09 -0800 (PST) Hello all in Zornland- Ok, so those who saw the maritime hall masada show must have noticed this- Joey Baron...World's HAPPIEST Drummer!!!!! Josh Martin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: What is Bible Launcher? Date: 18 Nov 1996 10:45:36 -0800 On Mon Nov 18 09:49 GMT 1996 "Newcombe, Andrew" wrote: > > Can anyone tell me anything about Bible Launcher? Who plays on the CD? > What sort of Music is it ? Any reviews? Hooker 99 is the only name I recognized. It is a really twisted record that should appeal to Mr Bungle's audience (not straight rock, fairly theatrical, unpredictable, irreverentious, etc). As far as I know, the record has been removed from stores. The record should be reissued next year after cutting some parts (to avoid some possible lawsuits). Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Torsten Nielsen Subject: West coast Masada Date: 18 Nov 1996 20:11:50 +0100 (MET) Who plays in the west coast Masada? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: West coast Masada Date: 18 Nov 1996 12:28:06 -0800 On Mon, 18 Nov 1996 20:11:50 +0100 (MET) Torsten Nielsen wrote: > > Who plays in the west coast Masada? Ben Goldberg (cl), Trevor Dunn (b), Kenny Wollesen (dr). Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" Subject: Re: Adress Date: 18 Nov 1996 15:27:03 -0500 (EST) Actualy, i remember hearing on this list that there's only going to be 2 hours of music on the whole thing... On Fri, 15 Nov 1996 martinj@SONOMA.EDU wrote: > it sounds like about 3 months of cd after cd without leaving the room. > If someone listens to it all in less than six months, I don't know > whether to be impressed, or feel really, REALLY bad for them. > > > On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, DANIEL BITTON wrote: > > > So there actually is such a thing as a 150 cd box set of Zorn and Eye? > > What's that sound like? > > > > On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, Torsten Nielsen wrote: > > > > > On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, DANIEL BITTON wrote: > > > > > > > Is that for real? What the fuck is that? You're joking right? I don't get it. > > > > > > I'm not joking, I just didn't make my point very clear. I ordered "Live > > > In China" from Sound Factory, but lost their adress. So I was hoping that > > > somebody on the Zorn list might know what it is... > > > > > > Jonas > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" Subject: Naked City as Purgative Date: 18 Nov 1996 15:37:32 -0500 (EST) > As for M.G.H.Z.A., my friend Mark's ex actually vomited listening to Naked > City. They were on a car trip and she said all that sudden " awfulstopping > and starting" gave her vertigo and she puked. Damn! Did you keep it and send some to John Zorn? I'd treasure it, if i were him - you can't more harcore than that ;) -jascha ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" Subject: Ultra-hip super 90's wired cyber-Masada for the information age? Date: 18 Nov 1996 15:45:56 -0500 (EST) > > anyway! the Masada show in SF (11/15) was > astounding. was the multimedia barrage > something that Zorn wanted or normal fare > for the Maritime Hall? eh? What did the barrage consist of, i'm really curious. The two shows i saw last year at the knit were just four guys playing some of the best music in the cosmos - very simple. I'd have an extremmely hard time imagining a multimedia barrage that wasn't somehow annoying to music fans, although i'm willing to admit that it could happen. Did it work? -jascha ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" Subject: John Oswald Date: 18 Nov 1996 16:04:07 -0500 (EST) Has anybody heard John Oswald's plunderphonic versions of Naked City's music? They're probably brilliant, but i think they only came with some new-music magazine which comes out once a year or so. I'd like to hear them, too, so if you have them and feel like being nice, i'll send you a tape and postage... -jascha ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: john shiurba Subject: Re: Zorn's Labels? Date: 18 Nov 1996 13:27:29 -0700 > i read somewhere that > "More News For Lulu" is now out of print. ... > check the recent issue. does anyone know > if Cadence still has copies of this disc? it's not in the Nov 96 issue. -- shiurba@sfo.com http://www.sfo.com/~shiurba ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: silver whale Subject: Subject madness... Date: 18 Nov 1996 23:38:49 +0200 (GMT+0200) Thanks for all of you for cheering my day... or night (it=ABs 23:30 here): Oh joy! (quoting from a recent message=ABs header) ----- Cc: a record swap meet full of stamp collectors ----- What are you guys/gals on? Just kiddin=AB... teemu ------------- e-mail: tkorpipa@siba.fi "There was coffee. Life would go on." Ruumen homepage: William Gibson:'The Winter Market' http://www.siba.fi/~tkorpipa/ruumen.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: john shiurba Subject: Re: West coast Masada Date: 18 Nov 1996 13:43:39 -0700 > > Who plays in the west coast Masada? > > Ben Goldberg (cl), Trevor Dunn (b), Kenny Wollesen (dr). > well, this is only partially accurate. Masada has played out here in several incarnations, including the one above, but also including douglas/ wolleson/ dunn/ zorn and the DIW line-up -- shiurba@sfo.com http://www.sfo.com/~shiurba ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: martinj@SONOMA.EDU Subject: Re: West coast Masada Date: 18 Nov 1996 14:40:30 -0800 (PST) I just saw them friday, and they had the lineup from albums 1-6. Cohen, Douglas, And Baron (happiest gut I've ever seen). Is this just for the tour? I saw them a long time ago in San Francisco, and they had goldberg, Dunn, and KEN. Did it change at all? On Mon, 18 Nov 1996, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > On Mon, 18 Nov 1996 20:11:50 +0100 (MET) Torsten Nielsen wrote: > > > > Who plays in the west coast Masada? > > Ben Goldberg (cl), Trevor Dunn (b), Kenny Wollesen (dr). > > Patrice. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: martinj@SONOMA.EDU Subject: Re: Ultra-hip super 90's wired cyber-Masada for the information age? Date: 18 Nov 1996 14:43:35 -0800 (PST) it was more like a bunch of video clips from stray documentaries from National Geographic fed through some video effects. I'm guessing that masada didn't bring them. Especially when they started to poke fun at them. Joey Baron pulled out a conga beat to some wierd lady gyrating at Stonehenge. I think the visual display was compliments of the house. On Mon, 18 Nov 1996, Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n wrote: > > > > anyway! the Masada show in SF (11/15) was > > astounding. was the multimedia barrage > > something that Zorn wanted or normal fare > > for the Maritime Hall? > > eh? What did the barrage consist of, i'm really curious. The two shows > i saw last year at the knit were just four guys playing some of the best > music in the cosmos - very simple. I'd have an extremmely hard time > imagining a multimedia barrage that wasn't somehow annoying to music > fans, although i'm willing to admit that it could happen. Did it work? > > -jascha > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: martinj@SONOMA.EDU Subject: Re: Adress Date: 18 Nov 1996 14:44:24 -0800 (PST) that really sounds pointless. On Mon, 18 Nov 1996, Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n wrote: > > Actualy, i remember hearing on this list that there's only going to be 2 > hours of music on the whole thing... > > > On Fri, 15 Nov 1996 martinj@SONOMA.EDU wrote: > > > it sounds like about 3 months of cd after cd without leaving the room. > > If someone listens to it all in less than six months, I don't know > > whether to be impressed, or feel really, REALLY bad for them. > > > > > > On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, DANIEL BITTON wrote: > > > > > So there actually is such a thing as a 150 cd box set of Zorn and Eye? > > > What's that sound like? > > > > > > On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, Torsten Nielsen wrote: > > > > > > > On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, DANIEL BITTON wrote: > > > > > > > > > Is that for real? What the fuck is that? You're joking right? I don't get it. > > > > > > > > I'm not joking, I just didn't make my point very clear. I ordered "Live > > > > In China" from Sound Factory, but lost their adress. So I was hoping that > > > > somebody on the Zorn list might know what it is... > > > > > > > > Jonas > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rizzi@netcom.com (m. rizzi) Subject: Re: Zorn's Labels? Date: 18 Nov 1996 14:53:53 -0800 (PST) >On Sun, 17 Nov 1996, m. rizzi wrote: > >> I do know that every record label (even majors) have >> a limit on how many different recordings they can >> produce in a year. It's not like a record label >> has infinite resources. SUGAR in their vitamins?, demi-God and Icon sez: > >on the other hand, there's Muslimguaze >who has been putting out at least one >CD a month lately... WUP. I'm not sure how that constitutes an "on the other hand." Tzadik alone has been releasing 30-40 CD's a year! >anyway! the Masada show in SF (11/15) was >astounding. It twas most awesome. The deep bass ambient piece (2nd song) and the high speed accelerating songs blew my freakin' head off. >was the multimedia barrage >something that Zorn wanted or normal fare >for the Maritime Hall? I can't speak for da man, but the fact that zorn, douglas and baron were making fun of the visuals leads me to believe, it wasn't their idea. Maritime Hall is booked by Family Dog productions, who are loosely connected to the whole Haight-Ashbury Grateful Dead scene...hence the hideous colored oil and water light show. ug. mike "Another nerd with a soulpatch" -=home=- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Leon Lee/SYBASE Subject: re: SF Masada, 11/15/96 Date: 18 Nov 1996 16:40:02 EDT >The multimedia barrage consisted of video images projected in four places on >the walls surrounding the stage, but thankfully above stage level. There were >also overhead projectors superimposing liquidy visuals better suited to >progrock. The content ranged from very pedestrian psychedelics to belly dancing >to grass chewing plains animals. There were brief images of what might have >been a hebrew ritual but otherwise it was horrible and nothing that Zorn could >have wanted. > >What about this long hair? > >The music was astounding. Further evidence that Zorn can do close to no wrong. >Hopefully, this Masada project, or some incarnation of it, will last. As a >vehicle for displaying his skills as an arranger, as well as his melodic and >harmonic ability, I think Masada is unparalleled. > >Forget happy. Joey Baron, the world's most dynamic drummer. > >Apologies for any formatting snafus, I'm new at all this. > >Sam Jenniches, via the above address. >ps. thanks rizzi. typed a little too much. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Leon Lee/SYBASE Subject: re: avant classical Date: 18 Nov 1996 16:50:24 EDT A couple of years back I talked to Zorn about classical influences on his music. I'm interested in what others might suggest along the lines of Kagel, Scelsi, Stockhausen, etc. And the possibility of swapping tapes. Sam Jenniches via Leon Lee ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Walter M. Young" Subject: Guitar Listservs/Kaiser Lyme Date: 18 Nov 1996 19:53:16 -0500 I've been reveling in number of postings about some of my favorite = guitarists, but I've reluctant to join in because I believe that this = may be a bit of a digression from the purpose of this list. Is/are = there any other good source(s) for discussion on the likes of Kaiser, = Frith, Frisell, Torn, Sharrock, Ulmer, etc... After all, if it hadn't = been for a healthy diet of guitar noise over the years I probably would = have never developed an appreciation for Zorn's attack on aesthetics. Continuing on the recent flurry of postings regarding Henry Kaiser, I've = been unable to get any information regarding whether contracting Lyme = Disease has affected his playing. He failed to make a performance last = January at Knitting Factory with Joe Gallant's Illumati. He had sent a = fax to the club stating that he was unable to play due to having = contracted Lyme Disease. Considering the possible neurological = complications of this disease the impact on his playing could be = profound. I hope someone out there can assure me that things are going = well. I posted a request for info on the jazz guitar news group once = and merely got responses of "Who's he?" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CuneiWay@aol.com Subject: Re: Cuneiform lives! Date: 18 Nov 1996 20:08:23 -0500 Steve Smith write re: Henry Kaiser: >HOPE YOU LIKE OUR NEW DIRECTION is a good intro to his work but >may be hard to find as the label is defunct. LEMON FISH TWEEZER is >also a fine intro but for a similarly defunct label. Uhhh. Excuse me, but Lemon Fish Tweezer is on the Cuneiform label (Cuneiform Rune 45) which I own & run & take out the garbage for. I would hasten to assure all 449 of you that Cuneiform is alive & reasonably well [even if we don't have ANYTHING by J.Z. on our label! ;-)], & would beg Mr. Smith not to spread rumors of our demise. Thank you. Steve Feigenbaum Cuneiform Records ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Walter M. Young" Subject: Guitar lists/Kaiser lyme Date: 18 Nov 1996 20:12:05 -0500 I've been reveling in number of postings about some of my favorite guitarists, but I've reluctant to join in because I believe that this may be a bit of a digression from the purpose of this list. Is/are there any other good source(s) for discussion on the likes of Kaiser, Frith, Frisell, Torn, Sharrock, Ulmer, etc... After all, if it hadn't been for a healthy diet of guitar noise over the years I probably would have never developed an appreciation for Zorn's attack on aesthetics. Continuing on the recent flurry of postings regarding Henry Kaiser, I've been unable to get any information regarding whether contracting Lyme Disease has affected his playing. He failed to make a performance last January at Knitting Factory with Joe Gallant's Illumati. He had sent a fax to the club stating that he was unable to play due to having contracted Lyme Disease. Considering the possible neurological complications of this disease the impact on his playing could be profound. I hope someone out there can assure me that things are going well. I posted a request for info on the jazz guitar news group once and merely got responses of "Who's he?" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? Subject: Re: Zorn's Labels? Date: 18 Nov 1996 17:31:00 -0800 (PST) On Mon, 18 Nov 1996, m. rizzi wrote: > I'm not sure how that constitutes an > "on the other hand." Tzadik alone has > been releasing 30-40 CD's a year! Tzadik is a label, releasing many different artist's works. one would expect as many releases in a year. on the other hand... Muslimguaze is just one guy, releasing many albums per year. he originally wanted a contract to release 30 CDs a year! > I can't speak for da man, but the > fact that zorn, douglas and baron > were making fun of the visuals > leads me to believe, it wasn't > their idea. ah, well... up on the balcony, we couldn't exactly make out what they were doing to such detail. hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? Subject: re: SF Masada, 11/15/96 Date: 18 Nov 1996 17:38:26 -0800 (PST) On 18 Nov 1996, Leon Lee/SYBASE wrote: >There were brief images of what might have been a hebrew ritual it was a clip of orthodox jews praying at the wailing wall. > but otherwise it was horrible and nothing that Zorn could >have wanted. i liked the clip of tribesman performing a ke-chack ceremony. :) hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Cuneiform lives! Date: 18 Nov 1996 17:38:47 -0800 Steve, On Mon, 18 Nov 1996 20:08:23 -0500 CuneiWay@aol.com wrote: > > Steve Smith > > write re: Henry Kaiser: > >HOPE YOU LIKE OUR NEW DIRECTION is a good intro to his work but > >may be hard to find as the label is defunct. LEMON FISH TWEEZER is > >also a fine intro but for a similarly defunct label. > > Uhhh. Excuse me, but Lemon Fish Tweezer is on the Cuneiform label (Cuneiform > Rune 45) which I own & run & take out the garbage for. I would hasten to > assure all 449 of you that Cuneiform is alive & reasonably well [even if we > don't have ANYTHING by J.Z. on our label! ;-)], & would beg Mr. Smith not to > spread rumors of our demise. Steve just made a mistake that he acknowledged. We *ALL* know that Cuneiform is alive! And we all know the great job you are doing. Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? Subject: Re: Ultra-hip super 90's wired cyber-Masada for the information age? Date: 18 Nov 1996 17:40:24 -0800 (PST) On Mon, 18 Nov 1996, Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n wrote: > Did it work? overall, i found it too distracting for me, but it had its moments - both humorous and interesting. hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "George Curran " Subject: Re: post Masada in Boston Date: 18 Nov 1996 13:10:07 -0800 I realize this is the Zorn list. While I went to the ICA to listen to Zorn and Douglas, I think any discussion of Masada that does not start with the rhythm section is inadequate misses the essence of this band. I am, of course, quite familiar with Baron's work, but Cohen is new to me. Can anyone fill me in on who else he has worked with, as I would like to hear other examples of his work, especially in a small group context. Thanks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "George Curran " Subject: Re: Zorn's Labels? Date: 18 Nov 1996 13:12:36 -0800 <> I think the story on that one is that hatArt is no longer pressing new copies of their backlist, but there are enough copies of everything out there so that availability should not be an issue. I have not had any problem finding any hatArt discs I really wanted; moreover I only recently bought "News for Lulu." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rizzi@netcom.com (m. rizzi) Subject: Mr. Bungle Show in S.F. Date: 18 Nov 1996 18:08:35 -0800 (PST) For folks in the San Fransisco area, I just heard that Mr. Bungle are playing two gigs at Slims on Nov 25th and 26th. It will be great to see them in a smaller venue. rizzi "Another nerd with a soulpatch" -=home=- http://www.meer.net/~browbeat/ ------ browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 --------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Barry Gilbert Subject: Re: _Live In China_ set Date: 18 Nov 1996 20:44:26 -0700 >> >>>With regard to the Zorn / Eye CD set, i regret to inform you that this >>>project has now been postponed until further notice; probably early next >>>spring. Anyway, i'll keep you posted on the progress. Lastly, i would >>>like to thank you for your interest and support on this project. >> I spoke with Zorn at last night's show in Boulder. He said this set would be delayed until probably the fall. He also said that the shortest CD's would be about one second long. Alas, there was no interview. He didn't have time. However, the show was terrific. There were many tune I recognized and a few I did not. I was surprised at how much he directs the playing of the group members. Sometimes he would tell Joey what kind of sticks to use. One time, during a bass solo, he seemed to be telling Joey to not play the cymbals, just drums. After the show, he came out to sign autographs. (He signed my copy of the JZ Radio Hour!) He was very nice and appreciative of the adulation. He stayed for about ten minutes and chatted with the few of us who remained. Off to Vermont! Barry Gilbert Boulder, Colorado ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mr R Teh Subject: Re:Guitar Listservs/Kaiser Lyme Date: 19 Nov 1996 15:49:12 +1100 (EST) >ssion from the purpose of this list. Is/are there any other good source(s) for >discussion on the likes of Kaiser, Frith, Frisell, Torn, Sharrock, Ulmer, etc... There is a mailing list dedicated to David Torn. In fact David himself contributes regularly to the list. Admin info as follow: To leave / join this mailing list or have your thoughts in the next issue, please send electronic mail to Door X at the following address: door-x@umich.edu You can contact the editor (Pete Cole) directly at the following address: pcole@sseyod.demon.co.uk, or through the SSEYO Koan website at http://www.sseyo.com ... Take care Regards, Richie Teh Maintainer of Drumnet http://www.clearview.com.au/drumnet Email: richie@c031.aone.net.au or drumnet@clearview.com.au *Want to display an Advertisment Banner on DrumNet, email for more infor :-) ** New contest on DrumNet. All you have to do is fill in the survey and be in the running for 3 CDs!!! Yes, 3 CDs!!! Amazing! Starts 21st Oct 96 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox Subject: Trespass Date: 19 Nov 1996 16:41:58 +1100 (EDT) 18 Nov 1996 07:37:01 -0800, Jeff Spirer writes: >At 05:24 PM 11/18/96 +1100, James Douglas Knox wrote: >>Oh, unnh, this one is a bit more embarassing; leastways for me. Mr Roussel >>kindly thanks me in the new zorn discography for mailing re: Filmworks 2 >>(Zorn had been commissioned to do the score, but those inexorable >>MCA studio execs baulked, and got Ry Cooder to come up with his own >>perfectly competent but somewhat lesser alternative). > >"Lesser" in what sense? > >Or are we only allowed to pray to one god here? Well, unnh, I'm less interested in "prayer" than in music (perhaps you made a wrong choice of vocation). While Cooder and Zorn both recorded effective scores for the film (perhaps), Zorn's piece is - to me at least - far more interesting than Cooder's as a piece of music per se. Like most of Zorn's work - and almost none of Cooder's - there's a formal experiment happening here. Zorn uses those hillbilly strings to reference Hill's "Deliverance", and evoke the white trash millieu of "Trespass"'s protagonists. He uses the world music elements to describe that 'Heart of Darkness' that is the urban american ghetto. I could go on. Ultimately; my understanding of Cooder's brief is that he was asked to record a "lesser" (i.e "watered-down") version of Zorn's score. go well, stay free... Jim K ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wlt4@aol.com Subject: Re: Henry Kaiser Date: 19 Nov 1996 00:46:16 -0500 ***** While FOT may be defunct in the technical sense, their releases are still available from Ponk, the Kaiser included. (And after misattributing that other album to Atavistic, you may be wise to doubt my word.) Lang Thompson In a message dated 96-11-18 11:38:20 EST, ssmith@kochint.com (Steve Smith) writes: << Aw, geez. Seth has just pointed out the error in my Kaiser post. Cuneiform is most certainly not defunct. I was in fact thinking of THE FIVE HEAVENLY TRUTHS on FOT. >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wlt4@aol.com Subject: Song-Poem Website Date: 19 Nov 1996 01:01:27 -0500 Thought some of you Rodd Keith fans might be interested. It's at http://www.channel1.com/users/fxxm/ Lang Thompson http://members.aol.com/wlt4/index.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: martinj@SONOMA.EDU Subject: I was wondering... Date: 19 Nov 1996 00:57:10 -0800 (PST) Does anyone know anything about the possibility of there being another Painkiller album one day? I know zorn & laswell are probably the 2 busiest people on the planet, but have they scrapped the project, or will it surface again? Anyone? J.M. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Henry Kaiser Date: 19 Nov 1996 10:55:19 -0800 Wlt4@aol.com wrote: > > ***** While FOT may be defunct in the technical sense, their releases are > still available from Ponk, the Kaiser included. (And after misattributing > that other album to Atavistic, you may be wise to doubt my word.) Aw, hey, not me. Not after accidentally proclaiming Cuneiform dead! :) But yes, you raise a point I'd forgotten. I'd heard about Ponk from Henry a while back but totally spaced. And in continuing to do penance to Cuneiform, I'd also like to mention one more recent Kaiser disc worth checking out. THE SIAMESE STEPBROTHERS (Cuneiform Rune 72, 1995) is quite the interesting record... it pairs Henry with Bruce Anderson (whom I believe is formerly of MX-80 Sound... anyone care to confirm?), early Grateful Dead keyboardist Tom Constanten, drummer Lukas Ligeti (son of the famous Hungarian composer I think) and bassist Dale Sophiea. Remarkably cliche-free drum, inventive guitar playing, and an eclectic selection of tunes ranging from free improvs to Miles Davis's "Agharta Prelude," Sonny Sharrock's "Blind Willie" and a Tom Constanten solo performance of Scriabin's Etude for Piano, Op. 42, No. 3 (which fits nicely into recent discussion of the classical pieces on GRAND GUIGNOL). Some of it reminds me of Crazy Backwards Alphabet... some doesn't. Henry also has a new band with last of the Zappa Band stunt guitarists Mike Kenneally, but I haven't heard it and can't remember the details. Steve Smith ssmith@kochint.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: slawlor Subject: first exposure Date: 19 Nov 1996 11:07:28 -0500 (EST) >Hi there. I'm not sure if I shared this with you guys or not, so if I >have, please forgive the repetition. >The first time I ever heard John Zorn was in 1989 on a public radio >station, though I didn't know who it was until 6 years later. I heard >this really wacked out piece with screaming, mumbling voices, and a ton >of changes in the piece. It was around 25 minutes long or so, and the >only thing I remember about the piece other than the craziness, was that >it had something to do with Mike Hammer. I recorded the piece, but >didn't catch what the announcer had said about the song on tape. I gave >it to a friend of mine, and 5 or 6 years later, I was visiting him and we >found this thing and started listening to it. "I still don't know what >the hell this thing is, and I'm not sure how to find out." I had said to >him. >well, I got an internet account and left a note on rec.music.newage >giving a description of the song and what I remember the announcer saying >about it. For some reason, I thought I remember him saying it was on >Windham Hill. (I know, you're all rolling on the floor laughing right >about now. haha) >I got a response back a few days later saying that it was a piece called >Spilaine on Nunsuch by John Zorn. So, I got it and that's how I heard >about John Zorn. A friend of mine, when I told him that it was Zorn who >did that crazy song said that Zorn was probably the electronic equivilent >to Cecil Taylor. Is he right about that do you think? Well, that's my >story. Bye. scott K. Lawlor 3358 Prange Dr. Cuyahoga Falls, OH. 44223 Phone, 330-922-4895 http://w3.gwis.com/~slawlor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: first exposure Date: 19 Nov 1996 08:50:23 -0800 On Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:07:28 -0500 (EST) slawlor wrote: > > >Hi there. I'm not sure if I shared this with you guys or not, so if I > >have, please forgive the repetition. > >The first time I ever heard John Zorn was in 1989 on a public radio > >station, though I didn't know who it was until 6 years later. I heard > >this really wacked out piece with screaming, mumbling voices, and a ton > >of changes in the piece. It was around 25 minutes long or so, and the > >only thing I remember about the piece other than the craziness, was that > >it had something to do with Mike Hammer. I recorded the piece, but > >didn't catch what the announcer had said about the song on tape. I gave > >it to a friend of mine, and 5 or 6 years later, I was visiting him and we > >found this thing and started listening to it. "I still don't know what > >the hell this thing is, and I'm not sure how to find out." I had said to > >him. > >well, I got an internet account and left a note on rec.music.newage ^^^^^^ Definitely the news group where to post such enquiry :-). > >giving a description of the song and what I remember the announcer saying > >about it. For some reason, I thought I remember him saying it was on > >Windham Hill. (I know, you're all rolling on the floor laughing right > >about now. haha) > >I got a response back a few days later saying that it was a piece called > >Spilaine on Nunsuch by John Zorn. So, I got it and that's how I heard > >about John Zorn. A friend of mine, when I told him that it was Zorn who > >did that crazy song said that Zorn was probably the electronic equivilent > >to Cecil Taylor. Is he right about that do you think? Well, that's my ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >story. Bye. And Zorn barely touches any electronic equipment... It makes you wonder if people really listen to (or maybe they think that making a good statement is more important as providing a good description). Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Morris Subject: Stuttgart, Germany Date: 19 Nov 1996 12:49:06 -0500 (EST) Hi. I will be spending some time in Stuttgart this December on business. Does anyone know of any good used record stores ( preferably vinyl ) but cd as well in the Stuttgart area? I collect "avant garde" jazz - stuff like Braxton, AEC, Cecil Taylor, Tim Berne, etc. Also, does anyone knw if there are any good jazz clubs in the Stuttgart area? Thanks - Jeff morris@wg.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Leon Lee/SYBASE Subject: -No Subject- Date: 18 Nov 1996 16:14:13 EDT >The multimedia barrage consisted of video images projected in four places on >the walls surrounding the stage, but thankfully above stage level. There were >also overhead projectors superimposing liquidy visuals better suited to >progrock. The content ranged from very pedestrian psychedelics to belly dancing >to grass chewing plains animals. There were brief images of what might have >been a hebrew ritual but otherwise it was horrible and nothing that Zorn could >have wanted. > >What about this long hair? > >The music was astounding. Further evidence that Zorn can do no wrong. >Hopefully, this Masada project, or some incarnation of it, will last. As a >vehicle for displaying his skills as an arranger, as well as his melodic and >harmonic ability, I think Masada is unparalleled. > >Forget happy. Joey Baron, the world's most dynamic drummer. > >Apologies for any formatting snafus, I'm new at all this. > >Sam Jenniches, via the above address. >ps. thanks rizzi. typed a little too much. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marcus Klein <101370.2613@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: new Tzadiks, Masada 7, Bailey's jungle record Date: 19 Nov 1996 14:32:54 EST >>Consumer buying tip: for those of you living in and about NYC, >>the Knitting Factory has copies of the new Tzadik CDs (well, >>the two Zorn releases anyway, not sure about the others), >>Masada 7 on DIW, and the Derek Bailey jungle record on Avant. Hi there ! This Bailey record is it really Drum'n'Bass ? And how is it done, "real" instruments or just samples ? Thanx, Marcus Klein ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey@aol.com Subject: Re: new Tzadiks, Masada 7, Bailey's jungle record Date: 19 Nov 1996 14:51:47 -0500 <> Derek's really playing (maybe I should say he's actually playing) and the drum'n'bass is supplied by a DJ. IMHO, after a listen or two, I didn't like it at all. I love Bailey's work in a lot of contexts, but it was tough for me to concentrate on it here with the mediocre, generic beats being laid down behind it. If you're interested in Bailey: Try Aida (solo), Dart Drug, Village Life, the one with the Ruins (Saisoro?), the Emanem release with Braxton, etc. Pretty much try any other release he's been on before this one. If you're interested in jungle: the Metalheadz compilation, the Photek EP, A Guy Called Gerald-Black Secret Technology. Any of these may make you see what the fuss is about. But don't listen to the Bailey record and dismiss the jungle genre because of it. Zorn's Filmworks V, on the other hand, is superb. Forty-plus short pieces for a film by a Japanese gay porn director with a band of Zorn, Marc Ribot, Robert Quine, and Cyro Baptista. Great variety, great music. Jon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "James L. Kirchmer" Subject: Atavistic label / 100 Cd's?!?! / Masada 11/16 Date: 19 Nov 1996 13:00:22 -0800 Hello there - a few things I'd like to mention: - is the adventurous Ken Vandermark still going to release (or has he already?) the debut of his "Vandermark 5" group on Atavistic? This guy is goin' places..... - I wonder if any crazed Zorn/Eye fan will go so far as to purchase one of those 100+ Cd changers that have emerged in the recent past and devote it solely to the upcoming box set. Now that would be something.(!) The one second cd's could be played in succession. Hell, the whole thing could be listened to in sequence!!!!!!! - Saw Masada here in Seattle on 11/16.(big crowd, nice ballroom) Loved the funky bass driven tune they played in the first set. (can't recall the title, but classically 'funky' - similar to something Chris Wood might play on his bass with MMW...) Joey Baron was really out of hand. Heck, the best aspect of the show for me was listening to the rhythm section take its turn - while Douglas & Zorn rested.....moreover, the 1st set Ornette cover they did was really cool as well - and: The REALLY mellow tune they played in the first set was cool. (by far the mellowest thing they did. It was laid back(!)...) The second set was nice as the amplification was turned up a notch. The bass was not hitting home in the back of the room during the first set. (gotta have that fat sound!) Well, I wish I knew the titles of these tunes...I'll have to listen to my Masada recordings & find 'em. The funky tune sounds better than it did when I saw it last year, this same month, at New York City's Town Hall. That Masada show PALES in comparison to what I just saw a year later. Then again, Masada did not headline that show(opened for John Lurie). Well, enough said... - james kirchmer -- Overheard at a funeral - "...She was in the middle of yet another ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ one of her desperate attempts to convince me of the existence of ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ psychic powers when, quite to my surprise, I willed a bookcase to ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~^^^^^^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ fall on her." - copyright Dan Piraro 1996 - 'Bizarro' comic strip ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Atavistic label / 100 Cd's?!?! / Masada 11/16 Date: 19 Nov 1996 14:09:44 -0800 On Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:00:22 -0800 "James L. Kirchmer" wrote: > > - I wonder if any crazed Zorn/Eye fan will go so far as to purchase > one of those 100+ Cd changers that have emerged in the recent past > and devote it solely to the upcoming box set. > Now that would be something.(!) > The one second cd's could be played in succession. > Hell, the whole thing could be listened to in sequence!!!!!!! I was thinking about something else: one sacrifices himself by buying the 100xCD set and somebody else put it on a 2xCD set. This operation would have the following advantages: - easier to manage than 100 x CDs - less expensive - less roomy - easier to justify in front of suspicious girl/boyfriends - less embarrassing to own - less waisted money if you happen to hate the 100xCD set - more environment correct (less barrels of oil slaughtered for the operation) We could make it a special limited edition for readers of the mailing list only :-). Patrice (joking). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wilson, King of Prussia" Subject: Re: Atavistic label / 100 Cd's?!?! / Masada 11/16 Date: 19 Nov 1996 17:11:23 -0600 >Hello there - >a few things I'd like to mention: > >- is the adventurous Ken Vandermark still going to release (or has > he already?) the debut of his "Vandermark 5" group on Atavistic? > This guy is goin' places..... Finally, a mention of Vandermark on this list. For those of you who don't know, he plays virtually 2 or 3 gigs a week here in Chicago. His bands play under various names (Vandermark 5, Steam, NRG Ensemble, i believe Caffeine is another one) They are always great, and usually in some of the smallest rooms in town. His current fave seems to be the Lunar Caberet, which has a seating area of about 25. The Vandermark 5 would probably be called his main band at the moment, now that the Vandermark Quartet is no more. The best reason to see the 5 is the pairing of him and Mars Williams, another screaming sax player around town. Williams fronts Liquid Soul, an acid jazz quartet who you will probably be hearing the name of sometime soon, cause they are getting pretty large Anyone pick up any of the many new releases today? a journey to my local record store saw me picking up Axiom Dub, which I am listening to now. It's pretty good, and the tracks by the Orb and Material are Awesome..... Filmworks VI and the latest Scorn coming up..... Whoever talks to zorn tonight, tell him to bring that Masada thing of his back to Chicago. it's getting lonely up here..... read icculus ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JoLaMaSoul@aol.com Subject: Joey Baron's industrial earplugs. Date: 19 Nov 1996 18:35:01 -0500 Some of you may notice large earplugs in Joey's ears as he plays...well i have an amusing story to tell re: a near catastrophic event that occured the morning after Masada played here in Boston. I was assisting with this gig, and when I showed up at 7am to take the band to the airport for their 8:30 flight, the guys (minus Zorn who was staying at another hotel) were frantic as Joey was not up yet, and no one knew his room number! Of course, Greg has an upright bass and needed to arrive at the airport early to ensure it's safe handling, etc, and the front desk guy didn't come on duty until 8am! Fortunately, when we went to pick up John, HE had the room number and phone number and gave a little wake up call, to which Joey eventually DID hear...But those earplugs nearly cost our Ohio friends a date with the great Masada...what a shame that would have been, as they rocked the house in Boston! Great guys, too, I must say. It was a real pleasure to work with these remarkable musicians. If anybody is operating a jack hammer on a construction crew, get a hold of Joey...he's got some killer plugs to sell ya. Jonathan LaMaster ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Barry Gilbert Subject: Re: Joey Baron's industrial earplugs. Date: 19 Nov 1996 19:47:59 -0700 At 06:35 PM 11/19/96 -0500, you wrote: >flight, the guys (minus Zorn who was staying at another hotel) were frantic Huh? Does he want to be far away or does he want a better hotel? Barry Gilbert Boulder, Colorado ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IOUaLive1@aol.com Subject: Re: Joey Baron's industrial earplugs. Date: 20 Nov 1996 02:26:59 -0500 In a message dated 96-11-19 18:41:38 EST, JoLaMaSoul@aol.com writes: > If anybody is operating a jack hammer on a construction crew, get a > hold > of Joey...he's got some killer plugs to sell ya. > Thats funny! You know, when Masada played the Knit back in April, for the first night or two, Joey was wearing gun muffs. He must have misplaced his ear plugs. And I was sitting right in front of them, thinking, "this isnt that loud". ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "GCURRAN.US.ORACLE.COM" Subject: Re: Joey Baron's industrial earplugs. Date: 20 Nov 1996 06:30:39 -0800 I had pretty much the same reaction, "huh??" Maybe it is just a reflexive response on Joey's part as I gather, from some of the reports I have read, that Masada regularly plays much larger rooms than they played in Boston. In fact, when Cohen's amp died, during the second set, I had no trouble hearing him from the next to last row in the room. This was one of the quietest jazz shows I have heard in quite some time. Maybe Joey played in too many heavy metal bands in his younger days? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Jungle (was Re: ...Bailey's jungle record) Date: 20 Nov 1996 11:02:00 -0800 JonAbbey@aol.com wrote: > I love Bailey's work in a lot of contexts, but it was tough for me > to concentrate on it here with the mediocre, generic beats being laid down > behind it.[snip] But don't listen to the Bailey record and dismiss the > jungle genre because of it. Jon raises an interesting quandry which I wanted to chew on for awhile before responding. The Derek Bailey CD was, in fact, one of my first experiences with so-called jungle. And frankly I didn't see what all the fuss was about (especially in light of all the rhapsodizing in The Wire about certain jungle practitioners). I then tried a pair of the more highly praised jungle releases (it's also called drums'n'bass to avoid the racial perjorative that jungle implies), the Photek EP and the new Spring Heel Jack album. My first thought was that the whole genre strikes me as rather empty and unfulfilling. The music serves as little more than background, even with its extremely clever manipulation of rapid pulse. Photek seemed the more interesting of the two, with an acoustic bass sound to it and a pretty interesting sense of shifting time. Spring Heel Jack, which has grown on me somewhat, still largely feels like simple dance music with sounds borrowed from disco and, dare I say it, lounge music. Taken in light of these, Derek's album actually seems to make a bit more sense to me. Remember that the initial idea for the pairing wasn't some lark of Zorn's but rather that Derek practices to jungle music on British radio. DJ Ninj's stripping of the ornate surface tendencies of jungle sides down to the rhythmic minimum would thus seem to be truer to what Derek himself must be hearing and interacting with. Having listened to the disc really loud in the car on the way in to work this morning, I also think that, for all the repetition, Ninj is actually a lot more subtle and varied than I'd initially given him credit for. And of course Derek's own playing is monstrous and razor-sharp. Don't give up on this one yet! If I'm inclined to dismiss jungle, it's because it still feels to me like background pulse and color but with no real musical interest in the foreground. Interestingly enough, I discussed just that with Bobby Previte yesterday and he stated that he thinks the growing popularity of jungle is due to the notion that music serves a different purpose today than in the past, and that it exists primarily as an adjunct to everyday life... that people no longer listen to music (at least today's music) to gain any information about themselves or the world, but rather as an accessory to other experiences and activities. I know I'm not really doing Bobby's statement justice, that's just the best way I can try to summarize what he was saying. But he mentioned that there was at least one specific part in his new "Too Close to the Pole," where he's playing rapid sixteenth notes against a slowly moving chordal background, that was specifically influenced by jungle. Talking too damn much, Steve Smith ssmith@kochint.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: lamerikx@win.tue.nl (Frankco Lamerikx) Subject: Re: Jungle (was Re: ...Bailey's jungle record) Date: 20 Nov 1996 16:59:26 +0100 (MET) While it is entirely off the subject, I feel inclined to add some thought to this discussion. Even though I am by no means a specialist in the field. > My first > thought was that the whole genre strikes me as rather empty and > unfulfilling. The music serves as little more than background, even > with its extremely clever manipulation of rapid pulse. Photek seemed > the more interesting of the two, with an acoustic bass sound to it > and a pretty interesting sense of shifting time. Spring Heel Jack, > which has grown on me somewhat, still largely feels like simple > dance music with sounds borrowed from disco and, dare I say it, lounge > music. Jungle, or drum 'n bass as its favored name is here in Europe, takes a somewhat awkward position within the dance world: it is the first dance music that you cannot actually dance to. This observation seems to contrast with the statement that drum 'n bass serves as little more than background. However, it can serve as background of course without having to be dance music. Drum 'n bass is seen by some as an extension of jazz rather than of dance music. It borrows its rhythmic approach from dance (I think it is based on an extension of break beats first advocated by the likes of The Prodigy some years ago). However, the feel to some of the most appreciated drum 'n bass releases is distinctly jazzy. There is also a level of complexity involved that is unheard of since the days of disco (at least within the dance world). Try to listen to a Squarepusher record and tell me that is not difficult music. In fact, I dare say, it is true avant-garde. This, of course, does not hold true for the majority of drum 'n bass releases, which can be seen as mere bandwagon jumping. Complexity within the dance realm is coming from another corner as well: that of Holland's Eboman, who uses samples and samples only to create musical labyrinths. Not only does he use audio samples, he integrates these with visual samples to achieve one unified audio-visual composition (in fact, many of the cues in his music are taken in a musique concrete fashion from the visual material that runs along with it). Frankco. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Denman Maroney Subject: Attn. NYC insomniacs: shameless plug Date: 20 Nov 1996 18:09:53 GMT Tonight, Wed. 11/21, at 11:00pm, I, Denman Maroney (piano), am performing at the Knitting Factory (74 Leonard St., Tribeca) with percussionist Greg Bendian. If anyone who sees this comes, please come up and say hi. Denman Maroney denman@pipeline.com maroney@dmbb.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: N Vassiliou Subject: br0tzmann/lasswell lp Date: 20 Nov 1996 18:57:20 +0000 (GMT) I recently came across a Peter Br0tzmann/Bill Lasswell collaboration LP, probably titled "Low Life". Since it was rather expensive and I am not really into this kind of this stuff, especially when not played by a relatively large band (such as Last Exit) I would appreciate any opinions from anyone who has listened to it. Thanks Nick Vassiliou ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matthew C Weiner Subject: Re: br0tzmann/lasswell lp Date: 20 Nov 1996 14:44:39 -0500 (EST) My roommate just got this, and I think it'a absolutely great. Brotzmann plays bass sax only; there are some overdubs. It is screamingly intense music w/Laswell getting into some extended technique/feedback (I think; only luistened to it once); I'd say it's simlar t Last Exit in intensity but clearer-textured (a description, not an evaluation). You might appreciate that, given what you say about a relatively large band (though I'm not sure relative to what). I'm not sure what you mean by this kind of stuff. If you don't like Last Exit, you might want to post where you've seen it and post yourself there to watch the scramble. Matt On Wed, 20 Nov 1996, N Vassiliou wrote: > I recently came across a Peter Br0tzmann/Bill Lasswell collaboration LP, > probably titled "Low Life". Since it was rather expensive and I am not > really into this kind of this stuff, especially when not played by a > relatively large band (such as Last Exit) I would appreciate > any opinions from anyone who has listened to it. > > Thanks > > Nick Vassiliou > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nathaniel Dorward Subject: Croquet Date: 20 Nov 1996 16:11:20 -0400 (AST) Recently got Bruce Andrews's book of poems/performance pieces, _Ex Why Zee_ (from Roof/The Segue Foundation), & see that one text there was written for Zorn's "Croquet". Has this been/will this be released as a recording? I also note Lyn Hejinian supplied the text for "Que Tran"; same questions apply. --N * Nate Dorward (ndorward@is2.dal.ca) website: http://is2.dal.ca/~ndorward/ * ...Cambridge, where chthonic severance dictates endless toil. --Peter Riley, _Alstonefield_ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matthew C Weiner Subject: Drum'n'bass Date: 20 Nov 1996 14:56:23 -0500 (EST) On Wed, 20 Nov 1996, Frankco Lamerikx wrote: > Jungle, or drum 'n bass as its favored > name is here in Europe, takes a somewhat > awkward position within the dance world: > it is the first dance music that you > cannot actually dance to. Odd--I have danced to it. Perhaps it depends on the style of drum'n'bass. > This observation > seems to contrast with the statement > that drum 'n bass serves as little more > than background. However, it can serve > as background of course without having to be dance music. > Drum 'n bass is seen by some as an extension > of jazz rather than of dance music. > It borrows its rhythmic approach from dance > (I think it is based on an extension > of break beats first advocated by the likes > of The Prodigy some years ago). I'm told that several drum'n'bass programmers cite Shannon Jackson as an influence. (Surprise! We're back on topic.) Certainly what I've heard--and I'm by no means an expert-- seems pretty complex rhythmically. > However, the feel to some of the most > appreciated drum 'n bass releases is > distinctly jazzy. There is also a level of > complexity involved that is unheard > of since the days of disco (at least > within the dance world). Try to listen to > a Squarepusher record and tell me that is > not difficult music. In fact, I dare > say, it is true avant-garde. This, of course, > does not hold true for the > majority of drum 'n bass releases, which can > be seen as mere bandwagon jumping. I agree about the music being avant-garde. I don't think it's smart to dismiss the music after just a little exposure; especially not on a newsgroup where "How do I coax newbies into the music I like?" is a constant topic. FWIW, the Wire says that the drm'n'bass on the Bailey album is pretty generic. Also, the much-hyped Goldie album Timeless (got reviewed in Time! I have a theory about that but it's off-topic) may be an easy way into drum'n'bass--it has vocals and riffs and other things that the unconverted might dig. Plus, it's good. Matt ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CuneiWay@aol.com Subject: more Henry Kaiser Date: 20 Nov 1996 15:38:45 -0500 >And in continuing to do penance to Cuneiform, I'd also like to mention one more recent Kaiser disc worth checking out. THE SIAMESE STEPBROTHERS >(Cuneiform Rune 72, 1995) is quite the interesting record... it pairs Henry with Bruce Anderson (whom I believe is formerly of MX-80 Sound... >anyone care to confirm?), early Grateful Dead keyboardist Tom Constanten, drummer Lukas Ligeti (son of the famous Hungarian composer I think) >and bassist Dale Sophiea. BOTH Dale & Bruce are in MX-80, which is still in existence. And yes, Lukas is the son of Georgy Ligetti. He also drummed in a Austrian band called Kombinat M that had obvious influences from the "Downtown scene" until that band died around '93. >Henry also has a new band with last of the Zappa Band stunt guitarists Mike >Kenneally, but I haven't heard it and can't remember the details. That band is called "The Mistakes", & they have one album out on Immune. The lineup is Henry & Mike + bassist Andy West (ex Dregs) & drummer Prairie Prince (ex Tubes). It sounds like they are all having a lot of fun on it. Lastly, a somewhat JZ related post - we will be releasing, in January '97, a live 'n' studio CD called "Every Screaming Ear" by NYC's Doctor Nerve [who's music definitely fits into the realm of that covered by this list] which will be the final CD by Nerve that features trumpeter David Douglas [Masada], who had been a member of Nerve since around 1984 & only left in the last 18 months when his schedule got too busy to remain with them. Steve Feigenbaum ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harry Godfrey Subject: jungle Date: 20 Nov 1996 21:27:08 +0000 Frankco and anyone else who might be interested: some might indeed think that jungle/drum n bass is undanceable, judging on audio experiences...but certain nights at venues here in Britain which showcase the talents of such stars as Goldie (Metalheadz) or LTJ Bukem (Speed) have been going for a long time now and are getting more popular than one could imagine. The new Metalheadz night at the Leisure Lounge in London began a few weeks ago, and if anybody WASN'T dancing, it's because they couldn't move due to the jam-packed state of affairs. Extremely hot and sweaty. People definitely dance to jungle. Alex ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Spirer Subject: Re: br0tzmann/lasswell lp Date: 20 Nov 1996 13:49:14 -0800 At 06:57 PM 11/20/96 +0000, N Vassiliou wrote: >I recently came across a Peter Br0tzmann/Bill Lasswell collaboration LP, >probably titled "Low Life". Since it was rather expensive and I am not THIS SHOULD NOT BE "RATHER EXPENSIVE". It has been sold as a cut-out in some places. I realize that M Vassiliou is in England, but I have seen new copies for $10US and used ones for about $6US. It's a great recording, but do not spend a lot of money on it. Jeff Spirer http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/ Axiom Records/Material Communications ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Spirer Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass Date: 20 Nov 1996 13:49:15 -0800 At 02:56 PM 11/20/96 -0500, Matthew C Weiner wrote: >I agree about the music being avant-garde. I don't think >it's smart to dismiss the music after just a little >exposure; especially not on a newsgroup where "How do >I coax newbies into the music I like?" is a constant >topic. Great point. The criticisms of drum 'n' bass that I have been reading here are very similar to the accusations thrown at Zorn about use of rock in jazz. Open those closed minds, and if you don't like it, wait a few years instead of just saying it's not worthwhile. Jeff Spirer http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/ Axiom Records/Material Communications ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Spirer Subject: Re: Trespass Date: 20 Nov 1996 13:49:16 -0800 At 04:41 PM 11/19/96 +1100, James Douglas Knox wrote: >18 Nov 1996 07:37:01 -0800, Jeff Spirer writes: >>At 05:24 PM 11/18/96 +1100, James Douglas Knox wrote: >>>Oh, unnh, this one is a bit more embarassing; leastways for me. Mr Roussel >>>kindly thanks me in the new zorn discography for mailing re: Filmworks 2 >>>(Zorn had been commissioned to do the score, but those inexorable >>>MCA studio execs baulked, and got Ry Cooder to come up with his own >>>perfectly competent but somewhat lesser alternative). >> >>"Lesser" in what sense? >> >>Or are we only allowed to pray to one god here? > >Well, unnh, I'm less interested in "prayer" than in music (perhaps >you made a wrong choice of vocation). While Cooder and Zorn both recorded >effective scores for the film (perhaps), Zorn's piece is - to me at least >- far more interesting than Cooder's as a piece of music per se. Like most >of Zorn's work - and almost none of Cooder's - there's a formal experiment >happening here. Zorn uses those hillbilly strings to reference Hill's >"Deliverance", and evoke the white trash millieu of "Trespass"'s protagonists. >He uses the world music elements to describe that 'Heart of Darkness' >that is the urban american ghetto. I could go on. > >Ultimately; my understanding of Cooder's brief is that he was asked to >record a "lesser" (i.e "watered-down") version of Zorn's score. And here is where this all starts to break down. See, this is a rumor. There are other reasons why this could have happened, and unless someone can get Walter Hill online, there is no reason to believe that this is one. FWIW, Ry Cooder has scored almost all of Walter Hill's movies after The Warriors. It is possible that Hill got funding for the movie to make what the studio thought was a "typical" Walter Hill movie and that they thought that included a Ry Cooder soundtrack. It is possible that ..... And I am finding a high degree of musical intolerance popping up on this list. Cooder's soundtrack is very highly regarded by fans of "ambient" music, for lack of a better word. It is DIFFERENT. And there is a big difference between "different" and "lesser", or "different" and "interesting." Sometimes it sounds like dittoheads are talking about music here, which is a little scarey thinking back to how hard it was for Zorn to get through some of the "different" barriers. Jeff Spirer http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/ Axiom Records/Material Communications ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" Subject: 100 CD box set thang Date: 20 Nov 1996 16:58:24 -0500 (EST) Just out of curiosity: how many copies of this monstrosity is this label going to print? Not that i'm anxious to buy one, but it's the sort of trivia i'd like to know. Maybe they're only going to print one copy and send it out into space for other life forms to uncover. After all, if NASA is going to send out records of Glen Gould and whale calls as representative (somehow) of humanity, then we should update our efforts with 100 CDs of Zorn/Eye improvs, which seem to catch something of the flavour of what it is to live on the planet earth (sometimes). -jascha ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Seth Gordon Subject: H30 Date: 20 Nov 1996 17:04:58 -0500 I recently picked up my first album by the Hafler Trio (or H30, as I'm told the fans call them). I'm a big fan of director Peter Greenaway and saw their "collaborative" album, so I couldn't resist. Really liked it alot. Real noisy and monotonous, but with an odd sense of humor. (I suppose one could describe Peter G's films the same way, though.) Does anyone have any recommendations where to go with them? What's the best stuff to start with? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DANIEL BITTON Subject: Re: Joey Baron's industrial earplugs. Date: 20 Nov 1996 14:27:26 -0500 (EST) When you fuck up your ears, they get very sensitive, also drums are jsut always too fucking loud if your sitting at them for two hours even if it sounds like nothing from the audience. On 20 Nov 1996, GCURRAN.US.ORACLE.COM wrote: > I had pretty much the same reaction, "huh??" Maybe it is just a reflexive > response on Joey's part as I gather, from some of the reports I have read, > that Masada regularly plays much larger rooms than they played in Boston. In > fact, when Cohen's amp died, during the second set, I had no trouble hearing > him from the next to last row in the room. This was one of the quietest jazz > shows I have heard in quite some time. > > Maybe Joey played in too many heavy metal bands in his younger days? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Trespass Date: 20 Nov 1996 14:41:09 -0800 On Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:49:16 -0800 Jeff Spirer wrote: > > At 04:41 PM 11/19/96 +1100, James Douglas Knox wrote: > >18 Nov 1996 07:37:01 -0800, Jeff Spirer writes: > >>At 05:24 PM 11/18/96 +1100, James Douglas Knox wrote: > >>>Oh, unnh, this one is a bit more embarassing; leastways for me. Mr Roussel > >>>kindly thanks me in the new zorn discography for mailing re: Filmworks 2 > >>>(Zorn had been commissioned to do the score, but those inexorable > >>>MCA studio execs baulked, and got Ry Cooder to come up with his own > >>>perfectly competent but somewhat lesser alternative). > >> > >>"Lesser" in what sense? > >> > >>Or are we only allowed to pray to one god here? > > > >Well, unnh, I'm less interested in "prayer" than in music (perhaps > >you made a wrong choice of vocation). While Cooder and Zorn both recorded > >effective scores for the film (perhaps), Zorn's piece is - to me at least > >- far more interesting than Cooder's as a piece of music per se. Like most > >of Zorn's work - and almost none of Cooder's - there's a formal experiment > >happening here. Zorn uses those hillbilly strings to reference Hill's > >"Deliverance", and evoke the white trash millieu of "Trespass"'s protagonists. > >He uses the world music elements to describe that 'Heart of Darkness' > >that is the urban american ghetto. I could go on. > > > >Ultimately; my understanding of Cooder's brief is that he was asked to > >record a "lesser" (i.e "watered-down") version of Zorn's score. > > And here is where this all starts to break down. See, this is a rumor. > There are other reasons why this could have happened, and unless someone can > get Walter Hill online, there is no reason to believe that this is one. > > FWIW, Ry Cooder has scored almost all of Walter Hill's movies after The > Warriors. It is possible that Hill got funding for the movie to make what > the studio thought was a "typical" Walter Hill movie and that they thought > that included a Ry Cooder soundtrack. It is possible that ..... > > And I am finding a high degree of musical intolerance popping up on this > list. Cooder's soundtrack is very highly regarded by fans of "ambient" > music, for lack of a better word. It is DIFFERENT. And there is a big > difference between "different" and "lesser", or "different" and > "interesting." Sometimes it sounds like dittoheads are talking about music > here, which is a little scarey thinking back to how hard it was for Zorn to > get through some of the "different" barriers. Come on Jeff, expressing some opinions about an artist should be still allowed (even about sacred cows :-). Not making a god of every musician on earth should still be accepted. At the same time, never expressing any negative opinion about any musician should also be suspect (sign of hyprocrisy or lack of taste?), don't you think so (beside, of course, the easy and usual targets)? I am personally tired of the wishy-washy comments that more than often hide a total lack of interest for an artist/music, but refuse to acknowledge it (by saying "It's bad", etc). In this kind of situations, I find a statement such as "This sucks", quite refreshing :-). There are more scary things in the world (look at Zaire, for example). Also, I have seen very little criticism of other artists on this list (which indicates a significant difference in threshold between you and me :-). Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass Date: 20 Nov 1996 19:00:26 -0800 Jeff Spirer wrote: > Open those closed minds, and if you don't like it, wait a few years instead > of just saying it's not worthwhile. You wound me, sir! :-) If there is one accusation that cannot be levelled at me, it is closed-mindedness! I don't plan to declare jungle a closed book (THE JUNGLE BOOK?) anytime soon. I'm simply disappointed that nothing I've tried so far has been especially impressive, which is why I wrote to Frankco privately to thank him for his reply and his recommendations. Maybe it's just a matter of taste... when I followed JZ's pointers to the Boredoms, Napalm Death and Carcass my response was immediate and overwhelmingly positive. Yours in the spirit of positive debate! Steve Smith ssmith@kochint.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark Corroto Subject: Masada 7 Date: 20 Nov 1996 18:12:49 -0500 News: I am looking ar Masada Zavin (7 ) DIW -915 tracks: Shevet Hath-Arob Mahshaw Shamor Bacharach Otoit Nevuah Kedem Zemer Evel tekufah also coming: David Ware Godspeilized Dougie Brown One Way Elevator w/John Medeski & Fred Hopkins Blood Ulmer Plays the music of ornette Coleman Greg Cohen Way Low Altered States w/Ned Rothenberg I'm excited ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey@aol.com Subject: Re: Masada 7 Date: 20 Nov 1996 18:49:40 -0500 In a message dated 11/20/96 6:17:31 PM, mcorroto@alumni.ysu.edu (Mark Corroto) wrote: >also coming >David Ware Godspeilized >Dougie Brown One Way Elevator w/John Medeski & Fred Hopkins >Blood Ulmer Plays the music of ornette Coleman >Greg Cohen Way Low >Altered States w/Ned Rothenberg When? On DIW? Any more info here? This is a very intriguing set of titles. Jon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Masada 7 Date: 20 Nov 1996 16:10:23 -0800 On Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:12:49 -0500 Mark Corroto wrote: > > News: I am looking ar Masada Zavin (7 ) ^^^^^ or ZAYIN? > DIW -915 > > tracks: Shevet > Hath-Arob > Mahshaw > Shamor > Bacharach > Otoit > Nevuah > Kedem > Zemer > Evel > tekufah Any recording info? > also coming: > David Ware Godspeilized > Dougie Brown One Way Elevator w/John Medeski & Fred Hopkins ^^^^^ I guess you mean Bowne. > Blood Ulmer Plays the music of ornette Coleman > Greg Cohen Way Low > Altered States w/Ned Rothenberg ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This one is called CAFE 9.15. and is on the label Phenotype (which is owned by DIW). > I'm excited So am I :-) Thanks for sharing your excitement, Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Barry Gilbert Subject: Re: 100 CD box set thang Date: 20 Nov 1996 17:25:43 -0700 At 04:58 PM 11/20/96 -0500, you wrote: > >Just out of curiosity: how many copies of this monstrosity is this label >going to print? 1000 copies only. Barry Gilbert Boulder, Colorado ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton Subject: Re: Jungle (was Re: ...Bailey's jungle record) Date: 20 Nov 1996 19:27:14 -0500 (EST) On Wed, 20 Nov 1996, Steve Smith wrote: > unfulfilling. The music serves as little more than background, even > with its extremely clever manipulation of rapid pulse. Photek seemed Others are doing a better job than I could in responding to most of the comments raised by Steve in his post, but I want to make one point that hasn't been raised yet: This music is LOUD. If it's only serving as background, then the volume knob is probably turned too far down. I suspect that this is one reason that drum-n-bass always works better for me one the dancefloor, but even on a home stereo, the breakbeats hit with a force that at its best is intensely physical, and very much in the spirit, if not the tradition, of Napalm Death, Painkiller, and _Torture Garden_. I haven't heard any of the releases Steve mentions yet, although I'll certainly snap up the Bailey album as soon as I get, but you might try turning up the volume if you're not "getting it". I don't think that this is all that drum-n-bass has going for it, but it's an important part of the aesthetic (at least for me). If you're not getting this effect at home, you might also consider checking out a club set by a good DJ. Chris Chris Hamilton Dept. of Philosophy University of Pittsburgh Pittsburgh, PA USA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Spirer Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass Date: 20 Nov 1996 17:12:25 -0800 At 07:00 PM 11/20/96 -0800, Steve Smith wrote: > >I don't plan to declare jungle a closed book (THE JUNGLE BOOK?) >anytime soon. I'm simply disappointed that nothing I've tried so >far has been especially impressive, which is why I wrote to Frankco >privately to thank him for his reply and his recommendations. >Maybe it's just a matter of taste... when I followed JZ's pointers >to the Boredoms, Napalm Death and Carcass my response was immediate >and overwhelmingly positive. In the spirit of positivity that Steve asked for, I would recommend the CD _Tetragrammaton: Submerge_, which has Graham Haynes playing horn with a drum 'n' bass rhythm track that would probably be a better place to start than other dnb recordings. This CD is unavailable right now outside of NYC (in NYC, Downtown Music Gallery has it and will mail order), but it should be in distribution in the next few weeks through Caroline. A lot of people also recommend Squarepusher, which I like although not as much. An interesting alternative, very far from the normal topics of this list, is Lee Perry's/Mad Professor's _Super Ape Inna Jungle_, a very low budget reggae meets dnb that I happen to enjoy. I haven't heard the Derek Bailey, I can't find it, so I have no idea what it sounds like. Jeff Spirer http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/ Axiom Records/Material Communications ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Spirer Subject: Re: Trespass Date: 20 Nov 1996 17:12:20 -0800 At 02:41 PM 11/20/96 -0800, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: >Come on Jeff, expressing some opinions about an artist should be still >allowed (even about sacred cows :-). > >Not making a god of every musician on earth should still be accepted. At the >same time, never expressing any negative opinion about any musician >should also be suspect (sign of hyprocrisy or lack of taste?), don't you >think so (beside, of course, the easy and usual targets)? > >I am personally tired of the wishy-washy comments that more than often >hide a total lack of interest for an artist/music, but refuse to acknowledge >it (by saying "It's bad", etc). In this kind of situations, I find a >statement such as "This sucks", quite refreshing :-). > >There are more scary things in the world (look at Zaire, for example). >Also, I have seen very little criticism of other artists on this list >(which indicates a significant difference in threshold between you >and me :-). I have no quarrel with what Patrice says here, and in fact agree that there should be opinions. What set me off here was the overt reference to the reason for two scores to exist. Nobody has any fucking knowledge of why there are two different scores, at least not based on what has been posted here. This somehow has some implication for the quality of the music that was used with the movie, which is nonsense. I will reiterate that I happen to think the Cooder score is a great piece of work. The fact that the other score is around should be totally independent, and the artists are in fact quite different. If I asked if someone thought John Zorn to be inferior/superior to Bernard Hermann as a film score composer, I would expect them to tell me I'm an ass to ask the question. Same thing here. And since no-one has any idea what the movie would sound like with the Zorn score, given what happens to the music when it is mixed in a movie soundtrack, it is ridiculous to say that one is more effective than the other as the soundtrack to this particular movie. Jeff Spirer http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/ Axiom Records/Material Communications ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IOUaLive1@aol.com Subject: Re: Trespass Date: 20 Nov 1996 20:41:50 -0500 In a message dated 96-11-20 17:49:22 EST, proussel@ichips.intel.com (Patrice L. Roussel) writes: > Come on Jeff, expressing some opinions about an artist should be still > allowed (even about sacred cows :-). Yeah, opinions on an artist, or another listmembers postings... (Which would mean that your post and Jeffs are A-OK..) > I am personally tired of the wishy-washy comments that more than often > hide a total lack of interest for an artist/music, but refuse to acknowledge > it (by saying "It's bad", etc). In this kind of situations, I find a > statement such as "This sucks", quite refreshing :-). > > There are more scary things in the world (look at Zaire, for example). > Also, I have seen very little criticism of other artists on this list > (which indicates a significant difference in threshold between you > and me :-). ..Coming from the human computer, who is known for spitting out the most elaborate information on downtown artists... (It's a joke, I feel I should point that out.. :) :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IOUaLive1@aol.com Subject: Re: Joey Baron's industrial earplugs. Date: 20 Nov 1996 20:41:52 -0500 In a message dated 96-11-20 17:28:24 EST, d_bitto@alcor.concordia.ca (DANIEL BITTON) writes: > When you fuck up your ears, they get very sensitive, also drums are jsut > always too fucking loud if your sitting at them for two hours even if it > sounds like nothing from the audience. But have you ever heard Masada live? Joey doesnt play that loud. I mean, gun muffs?? And they were playing on the floor at the Knit, with the audience three feet in front of the band. I dont think his ears are messed up, he probably has great hearing and doesnt want to endanger it. Which is very smart, but I really doubt he could have heard some of the quieter, more delicate passages played by Douglas. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark Corroto Subject: Re: Masada 7 Date: 20 Nov 1996 22:47:11 -0500 it's Masada Zayin (7 ) > Any recording info? recorded april 16, 1996 NY ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox Subject: Trespass Date: 21 Nov 1996 16:48:45 +1100 (EDT) Wed, 20 Nov 1996 17:12:20 -0800: Jeff Spirer writes, >I will reiterate that I happen to think the Cooder score is a great piece >of work. The fact that the other score is around should be totally >independent, and the artists are in fact quite different. If I asked if >someone thought John Zorn to be inferior/superior to Bernard Hermann as a >film score composer, I would expect them to tell me I'm an ass to ask the >question. Same thing here. And since no-one has any idea what the movie >would sound like with the Zorn score, given what happens to the music >when it is mixed in a movie soundtrack, it is ridiculous to say that one >is more effective than the other as the soundtrack to this particular >movie. Ok, well, sure: you're as entitled to your opinion as anyone - as, presumably, I and others are also. I don't know that I actually expressed an opinion on the relative merits of Cooder's and Zorn's work as scores (although I certainly prefer Zorn's score as music per se) - if I did, you're quite right: its a moot point. My initial point was simply that Zorn's score seems entirely appropriate to the film, and its bewildering to me that the studio, Hill himself, whoever, chose not to use it. That would seem to indicate that Zorn (like any other musician who takes chances) still has "different" barriers in his path. Further, this would seem to be especially the case with film scoring. go well, stay free... Jim K ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Peck Subject: The Tubes Date: 20 Nov 1996 22:52:46 -0800 (PST) >That band is called "The Mistakes", & they have one album out on Immune. The >lineup is Henry & Mike + bassist Andy West (ex Dregs) & drummer Prairie >Prince (ex Tubes). It sounds like they are all having a lot of fun on it. The Tubes are no longer ex. They've got a new album out, which I recently picked up. It's pretty similar to "Completion Backward Principle" and "Inside/Outside", meaning an ironically commercial sound. Not the experimentalism of their last (and IMO best) album, "Love Bomb" (which was produced by Rundgren) or their first few. Anyway, most of the old gang is back, minus Bill Spooner and Vince Welnick. Prarie, Rick Anderson, Fee (!), etc. are there. There's a strange Prarie Prince song that's reminiscent of "Wild Women of Wongo". He's a *monster* drummer live! Anyway, probably nobody here cares, so fffth. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alan M Gordon (MSc/NC)" Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass Date: 21 Nov 1996 13:06:23 GMT Jeff wrote: >>> In the spirit of positivity that Steve asked for, I would recommend the CD _Tetragrammaton: Submerge_, which has Graham Haynes playing horn with a drum'n' bass rhythm track that would probably be a better place to start than other dnb recordings.<<<< This brings us back to the original question which was: are the Derek Bailey or Tetragrammaton d'n'b releases any good? I would have to agree with the first poster (Jon?) who said that from a JUNGLE viewpoint, the Bailey one wasn't up to much - the Wire review agreed. This thread certainly sorted out who is open-minded, and who isn't. Everyone who's ever been to a club leapt to defend d'n'b. The whole thing has obvious parallels to hardcore. Whoever said that you can't dance to jungle - this is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. Or did you mean "I can't dance to jungle" - I can empathise with this at least! Alan (refreshed by change of topic from Masada/Buckethead ad nausem) LOOK LISTEN LEARN ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Spirer Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass Date: 21 Nov 1996 07:11:17 -0800 At 01:06 PM 11/21/96 GMT, Alan M Gordon (MSc/NC) wrote: >Jeff wrote: >>>> In the spirit of positivity that Steve asked for, I would >recommend the CD _Tetragrammaton: Submerge_, which has Graham Haynes >playing horn with a drum'n' bass rhythm track that would probably be >a better place to start than other dnb recordings.<<<< > >This brings us back to the original question which was: are the Derek >Bailey or Tetragrammaton d'n'b releases any good? I can't comment on the Bailey since I can't find it. Ninj, who does the rhythm track on this, has appeared elsewhere, and I thought his work was pretty good. Tetragrammaton's "goodness" depends on how much you like dnb. However, as I said, it is a good place to start. The two Material tracks are really strong. One has Graham Haynes playing over Bill's dnb tracks, quite a bit of processing on the horn at times, some interesting improvisational stuff at other times. Very much a "construction" though, just a warning for those who want three guys in a studio to play for an hour and put out a recording. The other Material track has Byard Lancaster, and for about the first 2/3 has a slow beat that maybe someone would call trip hop. There is an Indian drone that fades in and out, and the track hits me like Material's "Mantra" with a Western horn instead of an Indian one. There's some dnb at the end. There are three other tracks on this, my own favorite of them being "Carbon 12" by DJ Soul Slinger and David Quinlan, being a dnb thing built around a guitar riff. Jeff Spirer http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/ Axiom Records/Material Communications ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass Date: 21 Nov 1996 14:21:56 -0800 Jeff Spirer wrote: > > Tetragrammaton's "goodness" depends on how much you like dnb. However, as I > said, it is a good place to start. The two Material tracks are really > strong. One has Graham Haynes playing over Bill's dnb tracks, quite a bit > of processing on the horn at times, some interesting improvisational stuff > at other times. See, here's the funny part... I agree with this, except that I don't think it depends on how much you like d'n'b but rather how much you like Laswell and learned grown to appreciate his ability to create worthwhile music in pretty much any genre or setting he chooses - thrash, dance, jazz, ambient, dub, whatever. TETRAGRAMMATON is one of the most enjoyable discs I've heard this year. But I think also that maybe my own reservations/limitations have just been made clearer to me. It's the presence of Haynes and Lancaster that makes all the difference to me, I think. See, as I described it yesterday, my problem with Photek and Spring Heel Jack was that, once all the rhythm and color machinery is set in motion, nothing else HAPPENS. It's like a perpetual motion machine that burbles along in its own unique way for a span of however many minutes and then it goes away to make room for the next little machine. Beyond setting the machine in motion, it just feels like there's very little actual musical activity occurring. I can imagine that it would be hellaciously intense for dancing, but right now I'm speaking as an active and committed listener rather than a partipant in an activity to which music is an accessory. With the tracks on TETRAGRAMMATON there is more activity, variety, and personal involvement in each track than in all of the Photek and SHJ discs I've been using for comparison, combined IMHO. The two Material tracks foreground an actual instrumentalist making real time decisions over the d'n'b backgrounds (not to mention, on the Haynes track, Bill's insistent dub bass stalking). And even if there are not "soloists" featured in the tracks by DJ Soul Slinger/David Quinlan and DJ Spooky, there is still enough variety and foreground detail to give each piece a satisfying sense of forward motion and narrative that really sets it apart from the other more mainstream d'n'b things. Again, it's MY biases, MY opinion. I'm not trying to convince anyone that I'm right about anything. Those who want to know what d'n'b is are, I think, best served by getting many different views on the topic, and then following a pointer to whatever sounds most in synch with one's own personal peccadilloes. To them I would say: If you are a Derek Bailey fan you will buy GUITAR, BASS'N'DRUMS and you'll be happy. If you are a Laswell fan you should buy TETRAGRAMMATON and you will also be happy. But if you're just trying to get a sense of what drum'n'bass is (not what it optimally COULD be when played by our own favorite musicians) then neither of these examples is typical in light of other things I have heard. Heading out to buy a Squarepusher record this weekend (I'm serious), Steve Smith ssmith@kochint.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Shearon Subject: newbie w/ questions Date: 21 Nov 1996 12:26:23 -0600 (CST) hi, im daniel. two broad areas: #1 did anyone see mr bungle in athens this past time around? jeez, it mustve been almost a year ago the crowd was really terrible i think they expected a faith no more show they complained way more than thay applauded the band hung in there though and played a long set. mostly from disco volante, but they threw in "Honeysuckle Rose" and "Everybody's working for the weekend" after the show, patton was (of course) mobbed, but just ignored everybody and drank i went up to jz, and opened my mouth to say something and he just scowled and walked away. whatta guy. so trey spruance talked to everyone who wanted to and served as a recepticle for praise. hes really great. #2 i need some suggestions on what jz to buy i have some naked city and the one thats maybe called " wall of heads"--it has 36 guitar etudes, and elegy personally, i am most impressed with elegy, but id also like to hear some of his film music and where do i find this stuff? in nashville, the best we have is tower records, and its kinda limited. hows that early recordings disc? i saw it once, but i think its gone forever. are there ways i can contact these companies? thanks for reading this too-long letter and thanks more if you respond to me daniel p.s. why cant i find blood ulmer's america albums? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: john shiurba Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass Date: 21 Nov 1996 13:04:47 -0700 alan: > This thread certainly sorted out who is open-minded, and who isn't. > Everyone who's ever been to a club leapt to defend d'n'b. The whole > thing has obvious parallels to hardcore. whether one likes d'n'b has nothing to do with being open minded. the people who discussed their dislike of what d'n'b they had heard should certainly be given credit for giving it a chance. -- shiurba@sfo.com http://www.sfo.com/~shiurba ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DANIEL BITTON Subject: Re: Joey Baron's industrial earplugs. Date: 21 Nov 1996 18:12:18 -0500 (EST) I've seen them live twice, and he doesn't go loud compared to a rock band or anything, but when you're a musician and you have tinnitus your ears get pretty sensitive and it can be jarring to tolerate drums at all, especially for 2 hrs. Some guys get pain in their ears from only 10 decibles. He's probably got sensitive ears, even if they're not very messed up. Gun muffs aren't necessarily super quiet, there's different kinds, and those look silly but their really good for giving you a good quality of sound, and when you're playing every night for two hours you don't want to mess around. He does get heavier on his solos and just on his accompanying. It probably doesn't bug you because you can handle it for a couple of hours and you probably don't blast your ears with sound several hours a day in practice and perfrormance. I play winds and I have to wear plugs almost all the time too, especially around drums. Then again, maybe he's just wearing them in case he has to pull out his AK-47 or his GAT to knock off some nasty patrons or relative who may show up. Ask him if you get the chance. On Wed, 20 Nov 1996 IOUaLive1@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 96-11-20 17:28:24 EST, d_bitto@alcor.concordia.ca (DANIEL > BITTON) writes: > > > When you fuck up your ears, they get very sensitive, also drums are jsut > > always too fucking loud if your sitting at them for two hours even if it > > sounds like nothing from the audience. > > But have you ever heard Masada live? Joey doesnt play that loud. I mean, > gun muffs?? And they were playing on the floor at the Knit, with the > audience three feet in front of the band. I dont think his ears are messed > up, he probably has great hearing and doesnt want to endanger it. Which is > very smart, but I really doubt he could have heard some of the quieter, more > delicate passages played by Douglas. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: eccles@cisco.com Subject: Festival of Light Date: 21 Nov 1996 16:40:27 -0800 (PST) For all you Zorn completists the tune Bikkurim from the Bar Kokhba CD also appears on a Hanukkah CD called Festival of Light, together with tunes by the Klezmatics, Don Byron, Jane Siberry. All very mellow but worth a listen. Produced by Bob Appel. Chris ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Festival of Light Date: 21 Nov 1996 17:11:47 -0800 On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:40:27 -0800 (PST) eccles@cisco.com wrote: > > > For all you Zorn completists the tune Bikkurim from the Bar Kokhba CD > also appears on a Hanukkah CD called Festival of Light, together with > tunes by the Klezmatics, Don Byron, Jane Siberry. All very mellow > but worth a listen. Produced by Bob Appel. What about the label? Is it a new release? Also, what is the complete list of artists? That is the risk you take on this list when you jump on and announce a new record :-). Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wlt4@aol.com Subject: Re: Trespass Date: 21 Nov 1996 20:47:19 -0500 **** The point that Jeff Spirer was trying to make is that nobody on this list seems to really know why Zorn's score (assuming that's what's actually on the album) wasn't used. For all we know, Zorn himself decided against it being used. Maybe he thought his score wasn't being used appropriately, maybe it was a money thing, who knows? And it's entirely possible that it was *too* musical, that it drew too much attention to itself (which isn't unreasonable considering that the film draws a sharp distinction between diegetic rap music and non-diegetic Ry Cooder music). Best, Lang Thompson http://members.aol.com/wlt4/index.htm In a message dated 96-11-21 00:54:29 EST, you write: << My initial point was simply that Zorn's score seems entirely appropriate to the film, and its bewildering to me that the studio, Hill himself, whoever, chose not to use it. That would seem to indicate that Zorn (like any other musician who takes chances) still has "different" barriers in his path. Further, this would seem to be especially the case with film scoring. >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wlt4@aol.com Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism Date: 21 Nov 1996 21:05:02 -0500 ****** This raises an interesting point about Minimalism: can you like Philip Glass and not like jungle/techno? Does it matter? For me, one of the problems with techno is that--as Steve says--it's just set in motion and runs along (one reason so much techno/jungle sounds completely interchangable). With most Minimalism, there are people sitting there playing drones or repeated phrases or whatever and that seems to make a big musical difference. Is that imaginary? So i like techno/jungle only in small doses or in shamelessly commercial artists like Moby or Utah Saints. The other point is that techno/jungle requires a different way of listening where it doesn't really matter if "nothing else happens." This is pretty obvious, i guess, and really doesn't mean much (listening to a Beethoven string quartet is different than Hank Williams, not better just different). But what it's lead to is a lot of preaching that techno (or electronica) is the future and that most everything else is now irrelevant. That's what annoys me most about techno apologists (or for that matter free improvisors who claim that written/composed music is oppressive). It seems like just recently has techno/jungle created enough compost for really interesting artists to grow; i'm thinking of people like DJ Spooky (skip his liner notes), DJ Shadow, Scanner, The Chemical Brothers. Lang Thompson http://members.aol.com/wlt4/index.htm In a message dated 96-11-21 13:19:06 EST, ssmith@kochint.com (Steve Smith) writes: << o me, I think. See, as I described it yesterday, my problem with Photek and Spring Heel Jack was that, once all the rhythm and color machinery is set in motion, nothing else HAPPENS. It's like a perpetual motion machine that burbles along in its own unique way for a span of however many minutes and then it goes away to make room for the next little machine. Beyond setting the machine in motion, it just feels like there's very little actual musical activity occurring. I can imagine that it would be hellaciously intense for dancing, but right now I'm speaking as an active and committed listener rather than a partipant in an activity to which music is an accessory. >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: eccles@cisco.com Subject: Re: Festival of Light Date: 21 Nov 1996 18:30:06 -0800 (PST) : : : On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:40:27 -0800 (PST) eccles@cisco.com wrote: : > : > : > For all you Zorn completists the tune Bikkurim from the Bar Kokhba CD : > also appears on a Hanukkah CD called Festival of Light, together with : > tunes by the Klezmatics, Don Byron, Jane Siberry. All very mellow : > but worth a listen. Produced by Bob Appel. : : What about the label? Is it a new release? Also, what is the complete : list of artists? That is the risk you take on this list when you jump : on and announce a new record :-). : : Patrice. : Yes, it's a new release on the Six Degrees Label, a subsiduary of Island. Six degrees is run by Bob Appel and Robert Duskis. I think it's their first release. (*@sixdegreesrecords.com) Marc Cohn - Rock of Ages-Ma'oz Tzur The Mels featuring John Lebenthal - 1902 Flairck - The Emigrant Don Byron - Oi Tata The Covenant - Kiddush Le-Shabbat Rebbe Soul - Avinu John McCutcheon - Erev Shel Shoshanium The Klezmatics - Dybbuk Shers Masada String Trio - Bikkurim Alitsut - I see you Jane Siberry - Shir Amami Peter Himmelman & David Broza - Lighting Up the World Chris P.S. No I don't work for them ! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Spirer Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism Date: 21 Nov 1996 19:19:45 -0800 At 09:05 PM 11/21/96 -0500, Wlt4@aol.com wrote: > But what it's lead to is a lot of preaching that techno (or electronica) is >the future and that most everything else is now irrelevant. That's what >annoys me most about techno apologists (or for that matter free improvisors >who claim that written/composed music is oppressive). This is an interesting and valid point. I don't think that anyone on this list has claimed that techno is the future. But the comparison with free improv is interesting, because I think that in some sort of Moebius strip sort of way, they can be the same. I have experienced improv to sometimes be hypnotic in its lack of structure, to the point where the lack of structure becomes its own drone and the distinction between one point and another in the improv are not particularly different despite all sorts of obvious differences if one were to analyze the actual notes being played. But with drone, and some types of minimalism, the quite opposite effect is rendered - that over time, the mind begins to create the differences (improvisationally at this point) that are not visible. Another interesting parallel, probably off-topic on this list, is that people who listen to ambient music often like extreme hardcore stuff. >It seems like just >recently has techno/jungle created enough compost for really interesting >artists to grow; i'm thinking of people like DJ Spooky (skip his liner >notes), DJ Shadow, Scanner, The Chemical Brothers. Most, if not all, of these people are related to the downtown music scene in one way or the other and the comment might reflect what one happens to listen to otherwise - I have found a lot of interesting stuff coming out of England and Germany in this genre for the last three or four years that I would say is equivalent of some of these artists. Jeff Spirer http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/ Axiom Records/Material Communications ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox Subject: Trespass Date: 22 Nov 1996 15:04:41 +1100 (EDT) Thu, 21 Nov 1996 20:47:19 -0500: Lang Thompson writes >For all we know, Zorn himself decided against it being used. Maybe he >thought his score wasn't being used appropriately, maybe it was a money >thing, who knows? Well, no. When Phil Brophy interviewed Zorn, Zorn expressed some bitterness about this project, and the fact that his commisioned score had not been used. And given the packaging of Filmworks 2: "For an untitled film by", "special permission of"; coupled with the fact that Zorn (or anyone else) has never made any public statement about the work, perhaps its not unreasonable to imagine there are contractual restraints governing this whole thing. To me this seemed like an instance of a multinational combine stiffing a creative maverick. Tho', in retrospect, I think I probably was a little ill-considered and polemical about expressing this. Anyways go well, stay free... Jim K ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bungle@gladstone.uoregon.edu (star leigh wall) Subject: Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #33 Date: 21 Nov 1996 20:13:03 -0800 (PST) >did anyone see mr bungle in athens this past time around? .... >i went up to jz, and opened my mouth to say something and he just scowled >and walked away. whatta guy. John Zorn? On tour with Mr. Bungle? If you're referring to any of the musicians that played in the band, I can assure you it wasn't John Zorn. Zorn has not performed with Mr. Bungle at any shows on the Disco Volante tour (nor in the past to my knowledge). And this is a minor side note, but the song introduced as "Honeysuckle Rose" was actually a Joe Meek song called "Love Dance of the Saroos." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jk@onyx.interactive.net (jonathan kaye) Subject: another new compilation w/ zorn Date: 21 Nov 1996 23:38:13 -0500 >On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:40:27 -0800 (PST) eccles@cisco.com wrote: >> >> >> For all you Zorn completists the tune Bikkurim from the Bar Kokhba CD >> also appears on a Hanukkah CD called Festival of Light, together with >> tunes by the Klezmatics, Don Byron, Jane Siberry. All very mellow >> but worth a listen. Produced by Bob Appel. > >What about the label? Is it a new release? Also, what is the complete >list of artists? That is the risk you take on this list when you jump >on and announce a new record :-). > > Patrice. there's also a zorn track on a new "ambient" compilation called "ocean of sound", an import on virgin records (ambt 10) which is music compiled to accompany david toop's book on ambient, also called "ocean of sound" disc one king tubby dub fi gwan herbie hancock rain dance aphex twin analogue bublebathI jon hassel empire III ujang suryana sorban palid claude debussy prelude a l'apres midi d'un faune les baxter sunken city my bloody valentine loomer brian eno lizard point shunie omizutori buddhist ceremony the vancouver soundscape the music of horns and whistles howler monkeys peter brotzmann octet machine gun yanomami rain song harold budd bismillahi 'rrahmani 'rrahim disc two miles davis black satin terry riley extract from poppy nogood "all night flight" detty kurnia coyor panon ornette coleman virgin beauty john zorn/david toop chen pe'i pe'i paul schultze rivers of mercury the velvet underground i heard her call my name bearded seals holger czukay & rolf dammers boat - woman - song the beach boys fall breaks and back into winter (woody woodpecker symphony) african headcharge faraway chant sun ra cosmo enticement music improvisation co. untitled deep listening band seven-up john cage in a landscape erik satie vexations suikinkutsu water chime it's actually pretty amazing compilation. i mean how often do you get ornette coleman and the beach boys on the same disc. does anyone know anything about the cd the zorn/toop track is taken from, 1987's "deadly weapon" by steve beresford, tonie marshall, david toop and john zorn. jon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey@aol.com Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism Date: 21 Nov 1996 23:48:50 -0500 In a message dated 11/21/96 10:30:21 PM, jeffs@hyperreal.com (Jeff Spirer) wrote: >>It seems like just >>recently has techno/jungle created enough compost for really interesting >>artists to grow; i'm thinking of people like DJ Spooky (skip his liner >>notes), DJ Shadow, Scanner, The Chemical Brothers. > >Most, if not all, of these people are related to the downtown music scene in >one way or the other and the comment might reflect what one happens to >listen to otherwise - I have found a lot of interesting stuff coming out of >England and Germany in this genre for the last three or four years that I >would say is equivalent of some of these artists. Huh? DJ Spooky, I'll give you. But the others? Scanner's an English guy named Robin Rimbaud whose only vague connection to the downtown scene (as far as I know) is playing on a couple mediocre records/jam sessions with David Shea (and Robert Hampson of Main). The Chemical Brothers are also from England and I know of no connection to the scene. Same goes for DJ Shadow, who hails from California. I think what these artists do have in common is their work is pretty widely available (with the possible exception of Scanner) and they've all gotten a fair amount of press. I also think, although I do like all of these artists at least a little, that just as in most genres of music, much of the best stuff is lesser known. For instance, if you ask me, the best electronica album around right now, is Kruder and Dorfmeister's DJ Kicks. It's a 70-plus minute DJ mix album that takes the style to new heights, eclipsing the Spookmeister and all other pretenders. Lang, you said: <> Obviously this isn't true (the preaching, that is) but what i do think is true is that electronica is at a stage now that funk was at in the late sixties or rap was at in the mid eighties. That is, a nascent stage in which you can watch a style of music develop and progress, album by album, artist by artist. I'm just waiting for the James Browns, P-Funks, Sly Stones, and Public Enemys of electronica to emerge. Meanwhile, I enjoy watching many of the artists in the field grow. And, sure, there's a lot of crap. What kind of music doesn't have a lot of jokers mixed in with the geniuses? I think we're at a very exciting time for music and electronica is one of the reasons. And John Zorn is another one. My personal "electronica" favorites: The aforementioned K+D record Red Snapper-Reeled and Skinned (acid jazz with a sax player with legit chops) Mouse On Mars-Ioara Tahiti Thomas Koner-Anything, especially Permafrost Lull, Final, Main-Anything (great to fall asleep to) Pablo's Eye-You Love Chinese Food Earthling-Radar Anyway, those are some off the top of my head. It's also interesting to me how the worlds of electronica and free improv are intersecting. At the festival in Victoriaville this past May, many of the artists incorporated electronics in some way culminating in the showcase act, Evan Parker's Electronic Project. This consisted of Parker, Guy, Lytton, Namchylak improvising while other musicians processed the music coming from those four as if they were DJing. Was it completely successful? No, but it was sure interesting. Rant over, Jon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Spirer Subject: Re: Trespass Date: 21 Nov 1996 20:56:22 -0800 At 03:04 PM 11/22/96 +1100, James Douglas Knox wrote: >Thu, 21 Nov 1996 20:47:19 -0500: Lang Thompson writes >>For all we know, Zorn himself decided against it being used. Maybe he >>thought his score wasn't being used appropriately, maybe it was a money >>thing, who knows? > >Well, no. When Phil Brophy interviewed Zorn, Zorn expressed some >bitterness about this project, and the fact that his commisioned score >had not been used. And given the packaging of Filmworks 2: >"For an untitled film by", "special permission of"; coupled with the fact >that Zorn (or anyone else) has never made any public statement about the >work, perhaps its not unreasonable to imagine there are contractual ^^^^^^^' And as Lang points out, imagination is exactly what is going on here. Whether Zorn is bitter or not, whether he makes a public statement or not, the FACT is that imagination is all that is being peddled on this list. >To me this seemed like an instance of a multinational combine stiffing a >creative maverick. Tho', in retrospect, I think I probably was a little >ill-considered and polemical about expressing this. Anyways Why repeat ill-considered and polemical when you didn't have to? Like I said before, it could just as easily be imagined that Walter Hill thought it was terrible music and commissioned someone else to do it. And so all that is happening here is some second guessing of the whole thing because someone happens to think that one soundtrack is better than the other. Well I won't bother the list on this subject anymore because it will end up as a flame war over imagined stuff. Jeff Spirer http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/ Axiom Records/Material Communications ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Spirer Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism Date: 21 Nov 1996 21:29:08 -0800 At 11:48 PM 11/21/96 -0500, JonAbbey@aol.com wrote: > >In a message dated 11/21/96 10:30:21 PM, jeffs@hyperreal.com (Jeff Spirer) >wrote: > >>>It seems like just >>>recently has techno/jungle created enough compost for really interesting >>>artists to grow; i'm thinking of people like DJ Spooky (skip his liner >>>notes), DJ Shadow, Scanner, The Chemical Brothers. >> >>Most, if not all, of these people are related to the downtown music scene in >>one way or the other and the comment might reflect what one happens to >>listen to otherwise - I have found a lot of interesting stuff coming out of >>England and Germany in this genre for the last three or four years that I >>would say is equivalent of some of these artists. > >Huh? DJ Spooky, I'll give you. But the others? Scanner's an English guy named >Robin Rimbaud whose only vague connection to the downtown scene (as far as I >know) is playing on a couple mediocre records/jam sessions with David Shea >(and Robert Hampson of Main). The Chemical Brothers are also from England and >I know of no connection to the scene. Same goes for DJ Shadow, who hails from >California. Most of them play more in NYC than elsewhere. I didn't comment on their origins, but they do seem to be part of that scene. It's kind of like calling Bill Frisell downtown... > >Red Snapper-Reeled and Skinned (acid jazz with a sax player with legit chops) This is a great recording. Jeff Spirer http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/ Axiom Records/Material Communications ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism Date: 22 Nov 1996 00:50:42 -0500 (EST) On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 Wlt4@aol.com wrote: > For me, one of > the problems with techno is that--as Steve says--it's just set in motion and > runs along (one reason so much techno/jungle sounds completely > interchangable). Two points here: First, keep in mind that dance records are often oriented primarily towards the dance floor (shockingly enough). In that context, they don't just run along, because they're being continually mixed/segued/ whatever it is DJs do. In fact, you might say they're used as instruments for extended (usually solo) improvisations. I'll reiterate that those of you who are interested in acquiring a taste for d'n'b might consider checking it out at a club. Even in that context, it doesn't have to function as an "accessory" (to use Steve Smith's term) to another activity. Try just standing against the wall and listening. Second, techno and d'n'b don't sound interchangable to me any more than other genres of music I listen to. I have a feeling that this is a result of nothaving listened to the genre enough to develop a feel for the nuances that distinguish one track from another. I have the same problem with death metal, I used to have it with blues, and I've known people who had it with modern jazz. Obviously, no one has time to acquire this kind of feel for every genre, and I don't think anyone should feel compelled to develop it for techno/d'n'b, but the distinctions are there. > But what it's lead to is a lot of preaching that techno (or electronica) is > the future and that most everything else is now irrelevant. That's what > annoys me most about techno apologists (or for that matter free improvisors > who claim that written/composed music is oppressive). Hey, I resemble that remark (both of 'em, oddly enough). Seriously, I do think that "new electronica", or whatever we're calling it this week, provides an interesting complement to improv. It's pure composition. It can be written by a single musician directly onto tape, and once it's been written, there's no human element to be oppressed. Chris Chris Hamilton Dept. of Philosophy University of Pittsburgh Pittsburgh, PA USA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jhale@cycor.ca (James Hale) Subject: Joey, off the beaten track Date: 22 Nov 1996 01:16:50 -0500 Two new recordings with Baron on drums that may have escaped your attention. Steve Kuhn's Remembering Tomorrow on ECM (David Finck on bass) and Richard Galliano's Laurita on Dreyfus (Galliano on accordion, Palle Danielsson on bass). James Hale ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: basilar@cris.com (david m rothbaum) Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism Date: 21 Nov 1996 23:30:10 -0700 > Second, techno and d'n'b don't sound interchangable to me any more >than other genres of music I listen to. I have a feeling that this is a >result of nothaving listened to the genre enough to develop a feel for the >nuances that distinguish one track from another. I have the >same problem with death metal, I used to have it with blues, and I've >known people who had it with modern jazz. Obviously, no one has time to >acquire this kind of feel for every genre, strictly a guess but id assume mr zorn does... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Friedrich Feger Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism Date: 22 Nov 1996 13:48:49 +0100 Hi everybody, Steve wrote: >>>See, as I described it yesterday, my problem with Photek >>> and Spring Heel Jack was that, once all the rhythm and color machinery >>> is set in motion, nothing else HAPPENS. It's like a perpetual motion >>> machine that burbles along in its own unique way for a span of however >>> many minutes and then it goes away to make room for the next little >>> machine. Beyond setting the machine in motion, it just feels like >>> there's very little actual musical activity occurring. I can imagine >>> that it would be hellaciously intense for dancing, but right now >>> I'm speaking as an active and committed listener rather than a partipant >>> in an activity to which music is an accessory. >> Then, Lang wrote: >>****** This raises an interesting point about Minimalism: can you like >>Philip Glass and not like jungle/techno? Does it matter? For me, one of >>the problems with techno is that--as Steve says--it's just set in motion and >>runs along (one reason so much techno/jungle sounds completely >>interchangable). I think that setting something in motion and just letting it run along is a principle which cannot only be found in minimal music, techno and jungle. It is - for divers reasons - used in, say, hardly every musical genre. Whereas my association with techno and for example Phillip Glass is more an industrial one, where the repetition plays with monotony and tries to sound static, it has another function for example in soul music. James Brown's music also consists of lots of repetitions, but there they sound more like tribal, mystical or something to me. To my ears, jungle lies right between these extremes. To come to a thesis about all that: It is REQUIRED that nothing happens in the music to come to a result inside of the recipient different from listening to music full of developement. The developement inside the recipient is caused through the absence of changes outside. So I completely aggree to Lang when he writes: >> The other point is that techno/jungle requires a different way of listening >>where it doesn't really matter if "nothing else happens." This is pretty >>obvious, i guess, and really doesn't mean much (listening to a Beethoven >>string quartet is different than Hank Williams, not better just different). So I personally conclude that jungle can be music only to listen to, but that the repetitious characteristic predestinates it to be dancefloor music too. Whereas I've never liked any kind of techno (don't know why since I do like Glass and Co.), I enjoy jungle even without anything happening but repetitions. And I find it rather inspiring as carpet for improvisations, because it brings a completely new feeling. It's a new voice in the choir, and I welcome it. Fritz Feger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matthew Ross Davis Subject: Re: another new compilation w/ zorn Date: 22 Nov 1996 09:11:23 -0500 (EST) > it's actually pretty amazing compilation. i mean how often do you get > ornette coleman and the beach boys on the same disc. does anyone know > anything about the cd the zorn/toop track is taken from, 1987's "deadly > weapon" by steve beresford, tonie marshall, david toop and john zorn. This looks like a really cool compilation! I like that there's such diversity. Matthew Ross Davis University of Maryland School of Music ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Pleshar Subject: Re: another new compilation w/ zorn Date: 22 Nov 1996 08:14:02 -0600 (CST) >there's also a zorn track on a new "ambient" compilation called "ocean of >sound", an import on virgin records (ambt 10) which is music compiled to >accompany david toop's book on ambient, also called "ocean of sound" snip >peter brotzmann octet machine gun Whoa! "Machine Gun" is one of the last records I would have picked to be on an "ambient" collection, but hey good for them! Ralph ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hywel davies Subject: eckert,jaffe.. Date: 22 Nov 1996 13:38:09 -0800 any info. please on Rinde Eckert ,whose cd 'Finding my way home'(diw) Frisell played on ? Is the forthcoming Berne 'Big Satan(?)' cd by the trio that was called 'Lowball' (with Allen Jaffe on gtr.)? Has anyone heard the new Ellery Eskelin 'the sun died'(soulnote) with Ribot on gtr? Is there a Herb Robertson cd 'Sound Implosions' on cimp? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: eckert,jaffe.. Date: 22 Nov 1996 11:32:33 -0800 hywel davies wrote: > > any info. please on Rinde Eckert ,whose cd 'Finding my way home'(diw) > Frisell played on ? Don't know this album but Eckert is a performance-art vocalist who did lots of worthwhile work with California composer Paul Dresher. > Is the forthcoming Berne 'Big Satan(?)' cd by the > trio that was called 'Lowball' (with Allen Jaffe on gtr.)? No, but close, It's Berne, Marc Ducret (g) and Tom Rainey (d). Three tunes each by Berne and Ducret. Due in February from Winter & Winter (assuming the label finds distribution - actually I don't think that's a problem for you, just for those of us in the U.S.). > Has anyone > heard the new Ellery Eskelin 'the sun died'(soulnote) with Ribot on gtr? No, but wasn't this one supposed to be a big swaggering bluesy tribute to Gene Ammons? > Is there a Herb Robertson cd 'Sound Implosions' on cimp? Yes, as well as 'Falling in Flat Space' by the same trio on Cadence Jazz Records. Haven't heard them but am told that it's very loose free improv. Steve Smith ssmith@kochint.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: another new compilation w/ zorn Date: 22 Nov 1996 08:13:36 -0800 On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 23:38:13 -0500 jonathan kaye wrote: > > >On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:40:27 -0800 (PST) eccles@cisco.com wrote: > >> > >> > >> For all you Zorn completists the tune Bikkurim from the Bar Kokhba CD > >> also appears on a Hanukkah CD called Festival of Light, together with > >> tunes by the Klezmatics, Don Byron, Jane Siberry. All very mellow > >> but worth a listen. Produced by Bob Appel. > > > >What about the label? Is it a new release? Also, what is the complete > >list of artists? That is the risk you take on this list when you jump > >on and announce a new record :-). > > > > Patrice. > > there's also a zorn track on a new "ambient" compilation called "ocean of > sound", an import on virgin records (ambt 10) which is music compiled to > accompany david toop's book on ambient, also called "ocean of sound" It was in fact hidden somewhere in the discography (item 188). > it's actually pretty amazing compilation. i mean how often do you get > ornette coleman and the beach boys on the same disc. does anyone know > anything about the cd the zorn/toop track is taken from, 1987's "deadly > weapon" by steve beresford, tonie marshall, david toop and john zorn. This is a very enjoyable record with great "regular" Zorn solos. The music moves between songs to experimental rock. The experimental parts are in the spirit of Toop/Beresford previous project (General Strike). The kind of record you never talk about but always have pleasure to play... Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Trespass Date: 22 Nov 1996 08:30:25 -0800 On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 20:56:22 -0800 Jeff Spirer wrote: > > At 03:04 PM 11/22/96 +1100, James Douglas Knox wrote: > >Thu, 21 Nov 1996 20:47:19 -0500: Lang Thompson writes > >>For all we know, Zorn himself decided against it being used. Maybe he > >>thought his score wasn't being used appropriately, maybe it was a money > >>thing, who knows? > > > >Well, no. When Phil Brophy interviewed Zorn, Zorn expressed some > >bitterness about this project, and the fact that his commisioned score > >had not been used. And given the packaging of Filmworks 2: > >"For an untitled film by", "special permission of"; coupled with the fact > >that Zorn (or anyone else) has never made any public statement about the > >work, perhaps its not unreasonable to imagine there are contractual > ^^^^^^^' > > And as Lang points out, imagination is exactly what is going on here. > Whether Zorn is bitter or not, whether he makes a public statement or not, > the FACT is that imagination is all that is being peddled on this list. > > >To me this seemed like an instance of a multinational combine stiffing a > >creative maverick. Tho', in retrospect, I think I probably was a little > >ill-considered and polemical about expressing this. Anyways > > Why repeat ill-considered and polemical when you didn't have to? > > Like I said before, it could just as easily be imagined that Walter Hill > thought it was terrible music and commissioned someone else to do it. And > so all that is happening here is some second guessing of the whole thing > because someone happens to think that one soundtrack is better than the other. > > Well I won't bother the list on this subject anymore because it will end up > as a flame war over imagined stuff. Next time somebody dares to say something on this list we will ask him to prove it with a paper signed by the artists involved (I am still checking if we will require the involvement of layers). James thought that by having a friend who interviewed the man, his mail was serious enough to justify posting it. Now he knows that he better provides better homework. Hope this will be a lesson for the other members on this list. I wonder if in the future I will have the courage to open my mouth... I doubt that my tidbits of information will be up to such lofty standards. Patrice. PS: It might not be clear from the above, but I found James' post worth being mailed on this list (and I hope he will keep doing it). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism Date: 22 Nov 1996 08:32:42 -0800 On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 21:29:08 -0800 Jeff Spirer wrote: > > At 11:48 PM 11/21/96 -0500, JonAbbey@aol.com wrote: > > > >In a message dated 11/21/96 10:30:21 PM, jeffs@hyperreal.com (Jeff Spirer) > >wrote: > > > >>>It seems like just > >>>recently has techno/jungle created enough compost for really interesting > >>>artists to grow; i'm thinking of people like DJ Spooky (skip his liner > >>>notes), DJ Shadow, Scanner, The Chemical Brothers. > >> > >>Most, if not all, of these people are related to the downtown music scene in > >>one way or the other and the comment might reflect what one happens to > >>listen to otherwise - I have found a lot of interesting stuff coming out of > >>England and Germany in this genre for the last three or four years that I > >>would say is equivalent of some of these artists. > > > >Huh? DJ Spooky, I'll give you. But the others? Scanner's an English guy named > >Robin Rimbaud whose only vague connection to the downtown scene (as far as I > >know) is playing on a couple mediocre records/jam sessions with David Shea > >(and Robert Hampson of Main). The Chemical Brothers are also from England and > >I know of no connection to the scene. Same goes for DJ Shadow, who hails from > >California. > > Most of them play more in NYC than elsewhere. I didn't comment on their > origins, but they do seem to be part of that scene. It's kind of like > calling Bill Frisell downtown... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Not even downtown Seattle, it seems :-). Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: silver whale Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism Date: 22 Nov 1996 18:43:14 +0200 (GMT+0200) > Then, Lang wrote: >=20 > >>****** This raises an interesting point about Minimalism: can you lik= e > >>Philip Glass and not like jungle/techno? Does it matter? For me, one= of > >>the problems with techno is that--as Steve says--it's just set in motio= n and > >>runs along (one reason so much techno/jungle sounds completely > >>interchangable). =20 Ermm, I don=ABt quite follow you here... Techno and jungle sounding=20 interchangable? I assume you ment that it=ABs difficult to tell one track= =20 from another (I don=ABt agree with you, but that=ABs not the point of tis= =20 thread... :) as jungle/d=ABn=ABb and techno really don=ABt sound alike: the= y=20 use different rhythms, sounds and mostly different sample material in=20 general. Period. But to the point: I don=ABt really agree with you in the jungle equals=20 minimalism thing, as to me jungle is one of the most complex and detailed= =20 musicforms to emerge lately. I mean, in some of the best d=ABn=ABb (to me t= hat=ABs=20 Photek, Squarepusher, u-ziq, Plug,...) almost nothing is repeated=20 exactly. If you listen carefully, you see that the short rhythm loops are= =20 always changing, new sounds emerge and disappear, filters open and close,= =20 samples stutter. Some songs have so much going on, drum-vise usually,=20 that it=ABs hard to tell there =ABone=AB is. Great dance music, eh... Okay,= so=20 some of the jungle stuff (even from the ones I mentioned) is more=20 repetitive, but still it IMHO differs from techno (where the rhythm=20 stays generally the same, but changing of sounds generates the musical=20 content...) and minimalism. Actually, to me jungle is closer to=20 maximalism in terms of =ABinformation overload=AB and =ABshort attention sp= an=AB=20 way (what I dig, I drink too much coffee :)=20 Okay, that=ABs my two pennies... teemu ------------- e-mail: tkorpipa@siba.fi "There was coffee. Life would go on." Ruumen homepage: William Gibson:'The Winter Market' http://www.siba.fi/~tkorpipa/ruumen.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Shearon Subject: Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #33 Date: 22 Nov 1996 11:30:30 -0600 (CST) actually, im gald to hear that wasnt jz that blew me off though, i must admit, i wouldnt know him if i saw him daniel the mistaken ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Wittmann Subject: drum'n'bass Date: 22 Nov 1996 15:01:34 -0500 As a lurker on the digest form of the list, I don't often add my two cents more than once every 6 months, but I thought I would add a word or two here. I've been a radio DJ for about 8 years now, and my shows have covered just about the entire map of music (I got into JZ through a skewed sense of jazz, fascination with death metal, love of 60's Trane, sadness at the demise of the late 80's Wax Trax sound, and hilarious laughter at the Mancini takes on Naked City.... no, it doesn't make sense). Right now I've got a world beat/international show with an emphasis on Latino music and Afropop. Anyway, on the new Red Hot and Rio album (proceeds to AIDS research, as Red Hot always does....), there's an excellent example of what influence drum'n'bass can have on previous music. Everything but the Girl took the Stan Getz/Joao Gilberto/Astrud Gilberto tune "Corcovado," kept it silky and sexy, and threw drum'n'bass on top in a totally organic and logical way. The tune kicks ass: you _can_ listen to it in the comfort of your home, and you can dance to it, too. So there. (grin) Let's hear it for eclectic music tastes, varied club experiences, and the money to enjoy it all.... Have a nice day, everyone. (By the way, I've enjoyed the bizarre twists of recent threads, what with ear plugs, minimalism (I'm a Glass fan), electronica, and all. Thanks to all involved!) -- +-------------------------+--------------------+ | Michael Wittmann | Physics Education | | Physics Department | Research Group | | University of Maryland | tel: 301-405-8090 | | College Park, MD 20742 | Physics room 0220 | | http://www.physics.umd.edu/rgroups/ripe/mcw/ | +----------------------------------------------+ find world beat music reviews at http://www.physics.umd.edu/rgroups/ripe/mcw/reviews.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: insulin@slip.net (Marc Kate) Subject: Re: H30 Date: 22 Nov 1996 12:03:34 -0800 Hey. It actually wasn't a collaboration with Greenaway. It actually sounds like Greenaway found himself above the project somehow. (I'm currently interviewing Andrew McKenzie/H3O for my zine.) Next find Kill the King. It's fabulous. happy listening. Marc. >I recently picked up my first album by the Hafler Trio (or H30, as I'm >told the fans call them). I'm a big fan of director Peter Greenaway and >saw their "collaborative" album, so I couldn't resist. Really liked it >alot. Real noisy and monotonous, but with an odd sense of humor. (I >suppose one could describe Peter G's films the same way, though.) Does >anyone have any recommendations where to go with them? What's the best >stuff to start with? ~ : . =A8 , ' Marc Kate ~ , . =B0 . : ' . ~ =B0 , , insulin@slip.net . , . , ' ~ . ~ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" Subject: Re: H30 Date: 22 Nov 1996 15:38:10 -0500 (EST) > I recently picked up my first album by the Hafler Trio (or H30, as I'm > told the fans call them). I'm a big fan of director Peter Greenaway and > saw their "collaborative" album, so I couldn't resist. Really liked it > alot. Real noisy and monotonous, but with an odd sense of humor. (I > suppose one could describe Peter G's films the same way, though.) Does > anyone have any recommendations where to go with them? What's the best > stuff to start with? I think their ep 'Masturbatorium' is one of the best pieces of this genre of sound. It's only 17 minutes and kind of expensive, though, so you may want to buy the album 'kill the king' which has masturbatorium as part of it, although i think it may be a different version (kill the king is live, i think). Although i haven't heard kill the king, every one assures me it's increadible. 'Mastery of Money' is also very good. Be sure to hear it on a really good stereo, because there is a lot of very low frequency things going on. -jascha ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism Date: 22 Nov 1996 16:01:54 -0500 (EST) > > My personal "electronica" favorites: > > The aforementioned K+D record > Red Snapper-Reeled and Skinned (acid jazz with a sax player with legit chops) > Mouse On Mars-Ioara Tahiti > Thomas Koner-Anything, especially Permafrost > Lull, Final, Main-Anything (great to fall asleep to) > Pablo's Eye-You Love Chinese Food > Earthling-Radar I'd add: Autechre - anything John Oswald - anything ('discosphere' and 'plunderphnics' are very good, although very different) and i'd definitly agree with the recomendations for Thomas Koner and Main. Consistently increadible all the time. Wow. -jascha ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "R. Lynn Rardin" Subject: Re: Baron's ear protection Date: 22 Nov 1996 16:38:51 -0500 (EST) Someone wrote (sorry, lost the last reference) >On Wed, 20 Nov 1996 IOUaLive1@aol.com wrote: > >> In a message dated 96-11-20 17:28:24 EST, d_bitto@alcor.concordia.ca (DANIEL >> BITTON) writes: >> >> > When you fuck up your ears, they get very sensitive, also drums are jsut >> > always too fucking loud if your sitting at them for two hours even if it >> > sounds like nothing from the audience. Most definitely. I honestly don't know how musicians and especially drummers take playing/practicing all the time without some form of ear protection. >> But have you ever heard Masada live? Joey doesnt play that loud. When compared to most drummers in other situations, I'd agree that Joey doesn't play that loud. But we were in the front row at one of the Boston shows and the music definitely got loud enough that I wished I had my earplugs a couple times. >> I mean, >> gun muffs?? And they were playing on the floor at the Knit, with the >> audience three feet in front of the band. I dont think his ears are messed >> up, he probably has great hearing and doesnt want to endanger it. Which is >> very smart, but I really doubt he could have heard some of the quieter, more >> delicate passages played by Douglas. > >I've seen them live twice, and he doesn't go loud compared to a rock band >or anything, but when you're a musician and you have tinnitus your ears >get pretty sensitive and it can be jarring to tolerate drums at all, >especially for 2 hrs. Exactly. These guys play a lot every day and repetitive exposure to even not so loud "noise" does damage to your hearing over time. >Some guys get pain in their ears from only 10 >decibles. He's probably got sensitive ears, even if they're not very >messed up. Gun muffs aren't necessarily super quiet, there's different >kinds, and those look silly but their really good for giving you a good >quality of sound, Now this surprises me. Are gun muffs really designed to give "good quality of sound"? Or is it just a coincidence? At the Boston shows, Joey was wearing what looked like serious earplugs--the type you haved an audiologist make for you for a couple hundred bucks. Plugs like this are specially designed to give an even attenuation over the range of frequencies useful to humans. > Then again, maybe he's just wearing them in case he has to pull >out his AK-47 or his GAT to knock off some nasty patrons or relative who >may show up. Now there's a thought! :^) -Lynn (rardin%orion@binah.cc.brandeis.edu) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: basilar@cris.com (david m rothbaum) Subject: Re: H30 Date: 22 Nov 1996 13:53:20 -0700 >> I recently picked up my first album by the Hafler Trio (or H30, as I'm >> told the fans call them). I'm a big fan of director Peter Greenaway and >> saw their "collaborative" album, so I couldn't resist. Really liked it >> alot. Real noisy and monotonous, but with an odd sense of humor. (I >> suppose one could describe Peter G's films the same way, though.) Does >> anyone have any recommendations where to go with them? What's the best >> stuff to start with? i happen to think thier album Fuck is wonderfull as well. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: slawlor Subject: questions Date: 22 Nov 1996 17:57:31 -0500 (EST) Hi there. What piece of Zorn music would you say is the fastest moving in terms of it's constantly changing themes? Does he have any other compositions out that are as lengthy or longer than Spilain? Also, I've heard about these film music albums. The title makes me think of sound track recordings? Is this what these are, or are they totally different from sound track albums which usually have very short pieces? One more question, for now anyway. Doesn't John zorn have a classical background in terms of formal training, and how did he initally break into the music sceen? Thanks for the information. scott K. Lawlor 3358 Prange Dr. Cuyahoga Falls, OH. 44223 Phone, 330-922-4895 http://w3.gwis.com/~slawlor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IOUaLive1@aol.com Subject: Re: newbie w/ questions Date: 22 Nov 1996 17:50:15 -0500 In a message dated 96-11-21 13:31:56 EST, riud001c@frank.mtsu.edu (Dan Shearon) writes: > > p.s. why cant i find blood ulmer's america albums? Many have just recently been reissued on cd, like Black Rock, Freelancing, Odyssey, and Tales of Captain Black. I got the Japanese pressings, but now I think Columbia is reissuing them domestically. Also, i highly recommend "South Delta Space Age" by Third Rail, which is Blood, Bill Laswell, Ziggy Modeliste, and Bernie Worrell. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Leon Lee/SYBASE Subject: d 'n b / minimalism Date: 22 Nov 1996 14:57:40 EDT Fritz Feger wrote: So I personally conclude that jungle can be music only to listen to, but that the repetitious characteristic predestinates it to be dancefloor music too. Whereas I've never liked any kind of techno (don't know why since I do like Glass and Co.), I enjoy jungle even without anything happening but repetitions. And I find it rather inspiring as carpet for improvisations, because it brings a completely new feeling. It's a new voice in the choir, and I welcome it. ugh, here's my 2 cents worth: the first time i heard a drum 'n bass track, i was blown away. it was like listening to rasheed (oops, sp?) ali on 'interstellar space' with coltrane's tracks muted out. i went and bought the first jungle comp. i could find for cheap and listened to it on a roadtrip. for the first few tracks, i was pumped up but it got old really fast. but still, i was enchanted by the syncopated drum programming, tweeked out sounds and the thumping bass and knew there was better stuff out there somewhere. soon, i started to hear a lot of cool stuff like plug, wagon christ remixes, dj krush remixes, some photek 12" and even the palmskin productions track 'spock with a beard' on a 'acid jazz' comp. and what put me over the top was listening to it on headphones. it *was* the shit. then i moved to s.f. and started to go to some d 'n b weeklies and was pretty happy. the dancefloor was full of wigglers and jigglers of all sorts and the music was loud on a lo-fi sound system. i'd hate to use the word but it was dope. the shifting and oscillating elements as well as the repetitious ones was what made the music for me. the rivetted ride and snare provided a swirling backdrop to the steady bass loops and in between all that, my body convulsed to the pulse, my feet stomped around and my head scrambled tomstitc hat tifying with improv . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Spirer Subject: Re: newbie w/ questions Date: 22 Nov 1996 15:39:59 -0800 At 05:50 PM 11/22/96 -0500, IOUaLive1@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 96-11-21 13:31:56 EST, riud001c@frank.mtsu.edu (Dan >Shearon) writes: > >> >> p.s. why cant i find blood ulmer's america albums? > > Many have just recently been reissued on cd, like Black Rock, Freelancing, >Odyssey, and Tales of Captain Black. I got the Japanese pressings, but now I >think Columbia is reissuing them domestically. > >Also, i highly recommend "South Delta Space Age" by Third Rail, which is >Blood, Bill Laswell, Ziggy Modeliste, and Bernie Worrell. > And Amina Claudine Myers. Jeff Spirer http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/ Axiom Records/Material Communications ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism Date: 22 Nov 1996 16:39:22 -0800 >On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 Wlt4@aol.com wrote: > >> For me, one of >> the problems with techno is that--as Steve says--it's just set in motion and >> runs along (one reason so much techno/jungle sounds completely >> interchangable). > >Two points here: First, keep in mind that dance records are often oriented >primarily towards the dance floor (shockingly enough). In that context, >they don't just run along, because they're being continually mixed/segued/ >whatever it is DJs do. In fact, you might say they're used as instruments >for extended (usually solo) improvisations. I'll reiterate that those of >you who are interested in acquiring a taste for d'n'b might consider >checking it out at a club. Even in that context, it doesn't have to >function as an "accessory" (to use Steve Smith's term) to another >activity. Try just standing against the wall and listening. > True, but I have to admit that the drum 'n' bass things I like the most are not the purist club mixes, but things done by people outside of the core of the d'n'b scene adapting the style into their own. For example, I really like the Laswell Oscillations record. It seems like this was done not to be played in a club, but as a listening experience in its own right. The mixes on this record have the continually evolving and improvisational feel that a live DJ mix probably would. Another piece I like a lot is DJ SoulSlinger's "Abducted", on the Necropolis project compilation by DJ Spooky. A friend recommended LTJ Bukem's Logical Progression as an example of experimental d'n'b, and given its textural severity and the harmonic ambiguity of most of the pieces, I can see how it would be considered innovative compared to most other club music, but it seems pretty tame in a larger context. I haven't yet heard Tetragrammotron (is this being widely distributed yet?) or squarepusher. I think that there's an interesting connection between, something I have yet to hear explored, between the way that the drumloops evolve in d'n'b, and the way a jazz drummer would track with a soloist. Although I hear that the Derek Bailey record is not particularly great, I think this concept bears exploration. > >Hey, I resemble that remark (both of 'em, oddly enough). Seriously, I do >think that "new electronica", or whatever we're calling it this week, >provides an interesting complement to improv. It's pure composition. It >can be written by a single musician directly onto tape, and once it's been >written, there's no human element to be oppressed. > Yeah, but I wonder if there isn't an element of improvisation in the way at least some of the electronic composers work. I could imagine that some of the final mixes are "improvised" live, even though all the source materials are sequenced or sampled ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Leon Lee/SYBASE Subject: re: d 'n b / minimalism Date: 22 Nov 1996 16:45:54 EDT somehow my posting message was sent without finishing it... yeah i look stupid (feel stupid) but here's the tail of my 2 cents: d 'n b is a refreshing and welcomed addition to the world of electronic/intelligent dance music. if you can't make it to a club, try headphones (it'll warp ya). there is good stuff and plenty of bad stuff (in any 'style'' of music) so don't write it off if you happen to not like what you've listened to. if you do, you are narrowing the spectrum of progressive musical styles and limiting your own perspective of music. and if you really don't like it, at least you tried which is more than i can say (b/c i do not like country but i haven't really tried and don't have a will to). obviously, there is all this d 'n b talk b/c we're interested in the current develoments of music and are willing to take the time to explore new territories as is Derek Bailey, B.Laswell etc. So enough preaching. Checkout 'intelligent dance music' (idm mailing list) if you want to find out about some of the heaviest dance music around (majordomo@hyperreal.com w/ message: sub idm) and maybe you can be pointed to something that may appeal to your particular sensibilities. as for my recommends in the d 'n b vein: transonic's track 'extinguisher' on bill laswell's oscillations (the rest of the album is so so but Musso's track is good) funky porcini 12" (i don't remember what it's called but it has a squarepusher remix that's pretty over-the-top) wagon christ (remixes) on instinct u.s.a. w/ aphex twin remix aphex twin - 12" hangable autobulb 1 &2 third eye foundation - 12" (hardcore scariness) ben neill 12" remixed by dj spooky, dj soulslinger etc on antilles (cheap) - for a more ambient approach to d 'n b and last but not least, coldcut's mix cd 'journeys' - a wide variety of break beat/ d 'n b tracks in a 70 min. mix (on jdj records). again, sorry about the dribbling of my last post (i'm not sure if it even was sent but it sure wasn't on my machine when it crashed) *also, for you'all minimalist enthusiasts. have you checked out the philip glass/aphex twin ep 'donkey rhubarb' - quite interesting. leon on now: robert dick - third stone from the sun ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Spirer Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism Date: 22 Nov 1996 17:29:07 -0800 At 04:39 PM 11/22/96 -0800, Dave Trenkel wrote: >I haven't yet heard Tetragrammotron (is this being widely distributed yet?) No. It looks like Caroline will be handling the distribution, but it will not be out there until after Christmas. For now, it can be obtained from Downtown Music Gallery in NYC (212-473-0043) and they do mail order. Valis II will be out on the same label, probably at the same time that _Tetragrammaton_ appears in the stores, and will probably be of interest to at least some of the people on this list. Jeff Spirer http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/ Axiom Records/Material Communications ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: landocal@mail.utexas.edu (Landon Thorpe) Subject: a few comments on recent list-events Date: 22 Nov 1996 22:28:56 -0500 star leigh wall wrote: >John Zorn? On tour with Mr. Bungle? If you're referring to any of the >musicians that played in the band, I can assure you it wasn't John Zorn. >Zorn has not performed with Mr. Bungle at any shows on the Disco Volante >tour (nor in the past to my knowledge). Er, is this correct? I think I remember postings to this list noting at least a couple of SF Bungle shows with Zorn. And I believe Zorn goes uncredited on the Mr. Bungle debut, playing on "Love is a Fist" (am I right?). Don't want to pick nits, just want to see if I'm remembering correctly. On another note, I'm glad to see the intelligent discussion concerning techno/ambient/dnb. I find these postings to be quite enjoyable and informative (like most of the postings on this list). I recently became a subscriber to the intelligent dance music and ambient lists, and, unfortunately, while the postings are in the same category as the aforementioned, I find them (all 100K per day or so) to be, on the whole, less "quality dense". Oh well. Last thing: Jeff and Patrice, do we really want such needling by two of our most well-listened list-denizens? Thanks, LP Thorpe ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "The past cannot remember the past. The future can't generate the future. The cutting edge of this instant right here and now is always nothing less than the totality of everything there is." -- Robert M Pirsig ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marcus Klein <101370.2613@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism Date: 23 Nov 1996 11:52:19 EST >>>I haven't yet heard Tetragrammotron (is this being widely >>distributed yet?) >>No. It looks like Caroline will be handling the distribution, >>but it will not be out there until after Christmas. For now, >>it can be obtained from Downtown Music Gallery in NYC >>(212-473-0043) and they do mail order. Do you know where to get Tetragrammotron in Europe ? It is often hard to get rare Laswell or Zorn releases in Europe, despite of the fact that you sometimes have to pay more than you pay for other records so I would like to know where to get brandnew "NY records" in Germany. Thanx, Marcus Klein ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Spirer Subject: Re: Drum'n'bass/minimalism Date: 23 Nov 1996 10:26:24 -0800 At 11:52 AM 11/23/96 EST, Marcus Klein wrote: >>>>I haven't yet heard Tetragrammotron (is this being widely >>>distributed yet?) > >>>No. It looks like Caroline will be handling the distribution, >>>but it will not be out there until after Christmas. For now, >>>it can be obtained from Downtown Music Gallery in NYC >>>(212-473-0043) and they do mail order. > >Do you know where to get Tetragrammotron in Europe ? > >It is often hard to get rare Laswell or Zorn releases in Europe, despite of the >fact that you sometimes have to pay more than you pay for other records chartshit that is in the stores today> so I would like to know where to get >brandnew "NY records" in Germany. > This is a real problem and I don't think that there is an easy fix. For one thing, _Tetragrammaton_ was pressed several months ago and is just getting US distribution. Given how long this took, I sort of doubt that European distribution will happen anytime soon. You might try Downtown Music Gallery (dmg@panix.com) and see if they can ship it to you. Jeff Spirer http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/ Axiom Records/Material Communications ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bungle@gladstone.uoregon.edu (star leigh wall) Subject: Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #35 Date: 23 Nov 1996 11:09:11 -0800 (PST) >>Zorn has not performed with Mr. Bungle at any shows on the Disco Volante >>tour (nor in the past to my knowledge). >Er, is this correct? I think I remember postings to this list noting at >least a couple of SF Bungle shows with Zorn. And I believe Zorn goes >uncredited on the Mr. Bungle debut, playing on "Love is a Fist" (am I >right?). i should clarify that i mean 'performed' as in live bungle shows. as far as i know, zorn did play on love is a fist on the album, and bungle members have definitely played with zorn at various live shows, but not bungle shows. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wlt4@aol.com Subject: In Memoriam Gilles Deleuze Date: 23 Nov 1996 21:38:18 -0500 This is a bit off-topic but i've been trying to find an electronica compilation called In Memoriam Gilles Deleuze released by the German label Milles Plateaux. Several mail-order companies have it in their catalog but are currently sold out and say there's some kind of distributor difficulties that'll take some time to resolve. Does anybody know where i can get it? Thanks, Lang Thompson http://members.aol.com/wlt4/index.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wlt4@aol.com Subject: Ocean of Sound Date: 23 Nov 1996 21:47:48 -0500 The compilation album is great though a bit hard to find; almost as good is Toop's companion Crooning on Venus which focuses on the voice. However, i'm really posting because i think most people on this list would really like the book, which i think is destined to be a milestone. Toop is a perceptive critic with wide tastes so he's able to draw (in a nicely understated way) a lot of connections. The book is published in the US by Serpent's Tail which you probably can order even through a chain bookstore. Best, Lang Thompson http://members.aol.com/wlt4/index.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton Subject: Re: Ocean of Sound Date: 24 Nov 1996 01:22:59 -0500 (EST) On Sat, 23 Nov 1996 Wlt4@aol.com wrote: > Toop is a perceptive > critic with wide tastes so he's able to draw (in a nicely understated way) a > lot of connections. A bit too understated for my taste. I thought the book was disappointingly anecdotal. But the anecdotes are good ones, so if that's what you're looking for... Chris Chris Hamilton Dept. of Philosophy University of Pittsburgh Pittsburgh, PA USA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bindeman@erols.com Subject: Re: In Memoriam Gilles Deleuze Date: 24 Nov 1996 10:02:08 -0800 The In Memorium Gilles Deleuze 2cd set is great. I had a lot of trouble finding it, but it turned up at record store near where I live. They might still have it so heres their e-mail address: vinylink@ari.net It's pretty expensive though, like $28. I was looking in the Cd case for Book of Heads and it a has Zorn discography that mentions all of these releases with assorted sports titles, does anyone know where to get these, or even what they are Thanks Jed bindeman@erols.com Wlt4@aol.com wrote: > > This is a bit off-topic but i've been trying to find an electronica > compilation called In Memoriam Gilles Deleuze released by the German label > Milles Plateaux. Several mail-order companies have it in their catalog but > are currently sold out and say there's some kind of distributor difficulties > that'll take some time to resolve. Does anybody know where i can get it? > > Thanks, > Lang Thompson > http://members.aol.com/wlt4/index.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Torsten Nielsen Subject: Re: (Zorns film music) Date: 24 Nov 1996 15:46:55 +0100 (MET) On Sun, 17 Nov 1996, Kevin Neales wrote: > I was checking out the imdb web site and ran Zorn's name. They list a few > movies that he has composed music for that I haven't heard of. They are > Thieve's Quartet, Hoelderlin Comics, Maoghai(aka Sadistic City). Has > anybody seen any of these movies. Are the available on video. Sadistic City was shown at a film festival here in Denmark, earlier this year. I didn't see it, but I heard that it was very good, and that Zorn soundtrack was also good, and worked well with the film. I believe that Sadistic City is what the Japanese call a "pink movie", which is something like softcore porn. The main character is played buy the great japanese actor (and pop star?!?) Tomoroh Taguchi, who is also in the two Tetsuo films, which I think Zorn likes quite a lot... All I know about Thieves Quartet is that it was the first time Zorn played with Baron, Douglas and Cohen as a quartet... Has Zorn written any liner notes for Filmworks 3, 5 & 6? I think the ones in the first Filmworks were very interesting... Jonas ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" Subject: ReL drum and bass Date: 24 Nov 1996 15:14:44 -0500 (EST) All this talk of d'n'b prompted me to borrow Squarepusher's "Feed Me Weird Things" and listen to it very closely (i'd heard it before in a car, but wasn't paying too much attention). WOW!!!!!!! Thank you all for bringing this topic up, as Squarepusher is like nothing i've ever heard before...except maybe at raves, but at the time i was prbably too busy dancing. It sounds vaguely like jazz drum solos played at 78 rpm, put through an effects processor, and re-edited at random.....it sounds strange....it sounds wonderfull......it sounds like, ahhhhhhhhhhh - music! Actually, it sounds vaguely like other things i've heard before. Jazz drum solos have already been mentioned, but to my mind (and maybe only to my mind) people who like the crazy drum sensibilities of d'n'b might really get into solo Tabla recordings. Zakir Hussain and Ustad Alla Rakha have CD out on Moment Music (Zakir's label) of a live Tabla duet recorded a few years ago. These are two of the best Tabla players around right now, and together they make for a dizzy listening experience. BTW, i found Richard James' (aka Aphex Twin) liner notes to the Squarepusher album to be amusing. Here's some of it, for those interested: "Someone had just gotten glassed right in front of me at the george robey pub, Finsbury, North London, and i was thining i wish i had stayed at home in my studio. Oh, i might as well stay and watch the bloke with the bass guitar who keepswandering around behing the Dj booth. That, i thought, is almost certainly going to be good for a laugh. The next thing i felt was a fuzzy vibration as momophonic sound waves that had travelled from the other side of the room at the speed of light, compressing the air and displacing the smoke of ten spliffs, hit me in both ear bones simultaneously. It was Mr. Jenkinson, who was turning my heartbeat into the sound of a ring piece modulated resonant phaselocked trapezoid backwards edit phlanged kick drum. He made the sound of ambulances turn into slide trombones and the sound of a secretary filing her nails into a 24-piece string section. When my partner Grant Wilson-Clarriarge saw Tom spasmodically twitching in order to play a funky bassline in time with a 347 bpm drum and bass track, he thought he should either be commited or recorded...(snip)...The Squarepucher is someone who wonders what the holes of a flute sound like without the flute. Sound like sound never sounded before. Richard Rogers and Julie Andrews gave us the sound of music, John Cage and Simon Garfunkel gave us the sound of silence and now the Squarepusher gives us the SOUND of SOUND" -jascha ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jk@onyx.interactive.net (jonathan kaye) Subject: Re: Ocean of Sound Date: 24 Nov 1996 23:14:38 -0500 >The compilation album is great though a bit hard to find; > >Best, Lang Thompson >http://members.aol.com/wlt4/index.htm i ordered my copy from cd universe (www.cduniverse.com) and they delivered it within a week. a bit expensive though ($36 u.s. including shipping i think). jon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Charles Gillett" Subject: Re: MTV Clifford Ball Special review Date: 24 Nov 1996 22:26:04 On Sun, 24 Nov 1996 21:52:59 -0500 Ellis wrote... >High praise from the Plattsburgh mayor, Aw, you didn't mention the best part--the mayor walking through the camping area saying, "I don't want to sound ignorant, but what's a nug?" It sounded like the fans around him told him it was a kind of cookie, but I'm not sure. -- Charles ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: gsg@juno.com Subject: Ambient & Paint Date: 25 Nov 1996 00:55:51 PST ZORN for those of you in the New York City area, if you don't know already, Zorn has a new piece premiering at the Knitting Factory at 8pm in the main space, for 2 pianos, 2 violins & 2 keyboards. its called Duras.......a composition inspired by the writings of Marguerite Duras........ and later on downstairs............ STRAYLIGHT - an experimental ambient world music improv. trio Geoff Gersh-guitar Jason Finkelman-African/Brazilian percussion, voice Charles Cohen-analog Buchla synthesizer with performance painting by Mike Speranza @ 11pm in the Alterknit Theater ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: br00361@binghamton.edu Subject: Frith on Zorn (very long) Date: 25 Nov 1996 02:16:12 -0500 (EST) I transcribe below a translation of the statements by Fred Frith about his collaboration with John Zorn and about improvisation music, on the occasion of a duo concert by both at the 1988 FIMAV in Quebec (October 8, 1988). The concert and statements were transmitted by Radio Canada and the translation was made from a tape of that FM transmission. Because I think that it complements very well the statements by Frith, I also transcribe here part of the response given by John Zorn to Derek Bailey, about the same subject matter and as published in Derek Bailey, 1993: Improvisation, Its Nature and Practice in Music, New York: DaCapo Press (Pp. 75-76). As Patrice has indicated in his post to the list some time ago, there seems to be a convergence of two conceptions or, better, two ways of considering and, ultimately, playing free improvisational music in that collaboration between Zorn and Frith. Before proceeding, I have three points to make here. First of all, my apologies for taking so long to finish the translation. However, I have been away for the last two weeks as I had to go to Portugal for very urgent family matters. I've been now trying to put some order in my E-mail and the thousand and one confusing things I found waiting for me when I came back. Among them, of course, to finish this translation: what I just did. Secondly, I received so many requests to E-mail it when ready that I decided, if the list-owner allows it, to post the translation to the whole list. To do it, I reduced it as much as possible, editing out all references with no relation to the main theme. I hope my English is understandable -- but both the list-owner or those interested can correct my spelling, my grammar, etc. The important thing, for me, was to communicate the real meaning and sense of what Frith said in French about improvisation, about Zorn, and about his collaboration with Zorn. I know that translators are "traitors" to the original (tradottore-traidore) but I really tried to keep the meaning of Frith's statements as close to the original as possible Finally, for those who requested cassettes with copies of the full tape, that is to say including the concert by Zorn and Frith (the presenter calls it "Nine Variations on a Theme of Improvisation"), please contact me again to my E-mail address. Josey __________________________________________________________________________ *** The statements by Fred Frith (October 8, 1988): 1. Since the first day I arrived in New York I met people who were playing improvised music. Because I was there, I was invited to be part of a great band mainly composed by New-Yorkers but also by some musicians from other parts of the United States, from Alabama or from California. That band had been put together by John Zorn Consequently, and since my arrival at the United States, I know a little about improvised music as played by John Zorn. Also since then, and throughout the last eight or nine years, we have been playing together, as a kind of free improvisation duo. This is not a permanent or regular thing but, every year, we play various concerts together. These concerts have now become very special occasions for both of us. 2. To play music which is improvised it does not seem necessarily a good idea to make plans beforehand. This is my experience. When I had no practice playing this type of music, particularly solo, I used to design plans of execution before the concerts. But I soon discovered that those plans limited my spontaneity and that the result was not free improvised music but a kind of series of linked musical effects (a series of effects with links between them). And they made my music very stiff. It was only when I became convinced not to make plans in advance that I really started to understand and learn how to play improvisational music. 3. I also learned a lot with John Zorn because he is someone with a very important musical force. Nowadays he is very famous but I discovered this much before, when he had a small group of musicians around him in New York, those musicians who wanted to play and work with him. He was then completely unknown, he was not yet somehow fashionable and the media didn't even want then to hear his name. Things are, of course, very different now. John has become very famous and this is very good -- very good also for all those who have been around him all those years because now they can finally have better conditions to work with him. 4. (About FIMAV, the Victoriaville Festival, its audience and the "excellent" conditions it offers to modern music and its players, etc). 5. When I play with John Zorn as an improvisational duo, there is now a kind of communication between us that is not very easy to explain. This is because we have been playing so often together. We don't need, anymore, to speak about what we play or look for and try to discover what are our common structures. Improvised music is something that is related with intuition. But intuition is also something that probably can be developed by improvised music. Stockhaussen himself has said, already twenty five years ago, that intuition is not something that exists or comes to the musician in some days to disappear in others. Intuition is, rather, something that we can learn with practice. When we have experience we can make musical decisions immediately, on the spot, without having conscience of making them. This is what I try to achieve when I am playing. 6. For me, the duo is the ideal formation to play free improvised music. If one has more than two persons then it becomes very complex. On the other hand, if one plays and improvises alone, in solo, then it becomes like some kind of a theatrical event, a way to present oneself to the audience. But with a duo, there is the possibility of a kind of communication which is essential to exist all the time. This is the type of communication I have achieved with John when we play together. It is indeed a surprising kind of communication which, even after all these years, always surprises me. _________________________________________________________________________ ** Statements by John Zorn: reproduced from Derek Bailey, 1993: Improvisation, Its Nature and Practice in Music, New York: Da Capo Press (Pp. 75-76) "I grew up in a scene of improvisors who over the course of the years developed personal languages on our instruments. We grew through playing with each other, listening to all kinds of music and creating a personal approach towards our instrument.... What I was really fascinated with was finding a way to harness these improvisors' talents in a compositional framework without actually hindering what they did best -- which is improvising. An improvisor wants to have the freedom to do anything at any time. For a composer to give an improvisor a piece of music which said "play these melodies then improvise -- then play with this guy -- then improvise -- then play this figure -- then play this figure -- then improvise', to me, that was defeating the purpose of what these people had developed, which was a very particular way of relating to their instruments and to each other. And I was interested in those relationships. "I don't talk about any sounds that anybody might make, I talk about the improvisors themselves: "you can play with this person if you choose to or in alternation with that person. But what you play is totally up to you and who you decide to play with is up to you"" . _____________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: john shiurba Subject: Re: In Memoriam Gilles Deleuze Date: 24 Nov 1996 23:43:30 -0700 > I was looking in the Cd case for > Book of Heads and it a has Zorn discography that mentions all of these > releases with assorted sports titles, does anyone know where to get > these, or even what they are Lacrosse is on "School" Hockey is on "Pool" and Archery is on "Archery" I don't believe Fencing and Rugby have ever been released. There are others that aren't listed, for ex. Pool and Dominos Much of this is slated for reissue soon, on the 3cd Parachute Years thing. -- shiurba@sfo.com http://www.sfo.com/~shiurba ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Friedrich Feger Subject: Re: Baron's ear protection Date: 25 Nov 1996 09:58:34 +0100 hi folks, is it possible that Joey Baron suffers from Tinitus? Many of the musicians that I know, especially drummers, have had a temporary hearing loss, and after that nothing is like before. Fritz Feger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mark@knittingfactory.com (Mark Perlson) Subject: hard to find Date: 25 Nov 1996 10:26:32 -0500 I happen to know where you can find Masada 7 & the new Derek Bailey (Guitar, Drums n Bass). If anyone is interested, please email me directly. Enjoy! Peace. Mark ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Mark Perlson Knitting Factory Works - Label Manager 74 Leonard St NYC 10013 ph 212-219-3006 fax 212-219-3401 www.knittingfactory.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: a few comments on recent list-events Date: 25 Nov 1996 12:56:33 -0800 On Fri, 22 Nov 1996 22:28:56 -0500 Landon Thorpe wrote: > > star leigh wall wrote: > > Last thing: Jeff and Patrice, do we really want such needling by two of our > most well-listened list-denizens? Jeff and I have a huge intersection of musical interests. I guess, we need sometimes to disagree :-). Don't worry, should be over now. Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kurt Gottschalk Subject: Seigen Ono Date: 25 Nov 1996 20:46:01 -0500 (EST) I just picked up a used CD by Seigen Ono with no notes except for musician listings. Beautiful stuff. Zorn is on a few tracks with Frisell and others. Also the old Ribot/Nolet Jazz Passengers line-up and some stuff with John Lurie, Bill Frisell, Jill Jaffe and the imcomprable tuba player Bob Stewart. It's apparently runway music written for Commes des Garcons (a French clothing designer or something) recorded in'97 and '89. Can anyone give me more info on Ono? I need to know. kurt ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Charles Gillett" Subject: Re: MTV Clifford Ball Special review--uh, whoops Date: 25 Nov 1996 20:24:31 On Sun, 24 Nov 1996 22:26:04 , gill0042@gold.tc.umn.edu wrote... Ha. Aren't I clever. That was *supposed* to be a personal e-mail to someone I know from rec.music.phish. Ugh. Sorry about that. Unfortunately, I don't have anything to say about drums n bass, and I haven't gotten any Zorn-related CDs recently so I can't talk about those...I'm wasting your time. Sorry. -- Charles ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Spirer Subject: Re: Seigen Ono Date: 25 Nov 1996 21:37:31 -0800 At 08:46 PM 11/25/96 -0500, Kurt Gottschalk wrote: >I just picked up a used CD by Seigen Ono with no notes except for musician >listings. Beautiful stuff. Zorn is on a few tracks with Frisell and >others. Also the old Ribot/Nolet Jazz Passengers line-up and some stuff >with John Lurie, Bill Frisell, Jill Jaffe and the imcomprable tuba player >Bob Stewart. It's apparently runway music written for Commes des Garcons >(a French clothing designer or something) recorded in'97 and '89. Can Excellent music for time travel. >anyone give me more info on Ono? I need to know. There are two volumes of this, it was runway music, I prefer Volume 1 for no quantifiable reason. Jeff Spirer http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/ Axiom Records/Material Communications ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Spirer Subject: Re: a few comments on recent list-events Date: 25 Nov 1996 21:37:34 -0800 At 12:56 PM 11/25/96 -0800, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > >On Fri, 22 Nov 1996 22:28:56 -0500 Landon Thorpe wrote: >> >> star leigh wall wrote: >> >> Last thing: Jeff and Patrice, do we really want such needling by two of our >> most well-listened list-denizens? > >Jeff and I have a huge intersection of musical interests. I guess, we need >sometimes to disagree :-). Don't worry, should be over now. Certainly is. Jeff Spirer http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/ Axiom Records/Material Communications ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "M.Ho" Subject: Re: Seigen Ono Date: 26 Nov 1996 9:59:15 EST What is the title of this album and on what label? > > I just picked up a used CD by Seigen Ono with no notes except for musician > listings. Beautiful stuff. Zorn is on a few tracks with Frisell and > others. Also the old Ribot/Nolet Jazz Passengers line-up and some stuff > with John Lurie, Bill Frisell, Jill Jaffe and the imcomprable tuba player > Bob Stewart. It's apparently runway music written for Commes des Garcons > (a French clothing designer or something) recorded in'97 and '89. Can > anyone give me more info on Ono? I need to know. > > kurt > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Spirer Subject: Re: Seigen Ono Date: 26 Nov 1996 07:49:04 -0800 At 09:59 AM 11/26/96 EST, M.Ho wrote: >What is the title of this album and on what label? There are two: Commes des Garcons, Volume 1 Commes des Garcons, Volume 2 Both on Virgin Venture. Mine appear to be intended for Europe, not sure if they were ever released as domestically in the US. Jeff Spirer http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/ Axiom Records/Material Communications ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: silver whale Subject: Red Snapper Date: 26 Nov 1996 19:00:02 +0200 (GMT+0200) One more recommendation to the drum'n'bass thread: Red Snapper. I just recently became aware of this fine band and frankly, I'm blown away. They somehow manage to play live drum'n'bass. I know that may not sound that promising (to me, anyway) or even possible, but they manage to pull it off. And quite mightily, as well. The band (sax, double-bass, el.guitar, drums, occasional vocal) play great and solos are kept to the minimum (so no acid-jazz noodling here :) There's lot of strange processing and delay effects (even more than on standard d'n'b!) and unsuprisingly the engineer, Tim Holmes is credited as a bandmember. I'm not sure if it's 100% live (there seem to be some percussion loops here and there), but it doesn't matter: it's a hell of an album! teemu OnNow:Red Snapper:'Space Sickness' (sounds like Photek jammin' with Charlie Haden and Zorn on sax...) ------------- e-mail: tkorpipa@siba.fi "There was coffee. Life would go on." Ruumen homepage: William Gibson:'The Winter Market' http://www.siba.fi/~tkorpipa/ruumen.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Olivier Nguyen Van Tan Subject: Digest problem for number 35 Date: 26 Nov 1996 22:57:27 +0100 Sorry, I didn't receive the digest number 35... Someone can check? Olivier ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marcus Klein <101370.2613@compuserve.com> Subject: Kopie von: Red Snapper Date: 26 Nov 1996 19:38:07 EST >>I'm not sure if it's 100% live (there seem to be some >>percussion loops here and there), but it doesn't matter: it's >>a hell of an album! And it is a cool live-show my apartment-mate said. He has seen them here in Cologne together with Long Fin Kilie and referring to my apartment-mate, he is playing bass, they were really playin' a hell of LIVE-show. Til then, 26.11.1996, Marcus Klein ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marcus Klein <101370.2613@compuserve.com> Subject: Kopie von: Red Snapper Date: 26 Nov 1996 20:07:25 EST >>I'm not sure if it's 100% live (there seem to be some >>percussion loops here and there), but it doesn't matter: it's >>a hell of an album! And it is a cool live-show my apartment-mate said. He has seen them here in Cologne together with Long Fin Kilie and referring to my apartment-mate, he is playing bass, they were really playin' a hell of LIVE-show. Til then, 26.11.1996, Marcus Klein ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Carlson Subject: Re: Ambient & Paint Date: 26 Nov 1996 21:09:46 -0600 (CST) At 12:55 AM 11/25/96 PST, you wrote: >ZORN > >for those of you in the New York City area, if you don't know already, >Zorn has a new piece premiering at the Knitting Factory at 8pm in the >main space, for 2 pianos, 2 violins & 2 keyboards. its called >Duras.......a composition inspired by the writings of Marguerite >Duras........ It is actually for 2 percussionists, 2 violins, and 2 keyboards Brian Learn as if to live forever; live as if to die tomorrow - unknown ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: gastarit@comm.net Subject: Sphere Mktg Date: 26 Nov 1996 22:13:33 -0600 I received an Email from Sphere Mktg in NY who are having a clearance blow out sale.... They are distributors for Black Saint and Avant to name but a few... Hundreds of hard to find jazz gems and selections from the Avant catalogue... I just ordered 10 cd's (around $9 ea;) ... Among my selections are "The Sonny Clark Memorial (Zorn, Horvitz) A Pigpen and Horvitz cd with bassist William Parker...Eric Friedlander's "Chimera", Anton Fier, Joe Morris, Ellery Eskelin and a bunch of others.... If anyone is interested I'll forward this email by request only. It's a rather large message so..... I have no affiliation with them, but thought it would be of interest. It's a great sale and features numerous titles of those hard to get cd's that seldom appear in your local cd joint...Let me know...... glenn ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: gastarit@comm.net Subject: Sphere Date: 27 Nov 1996 06:53:18 -0600 Folks, I just sent a bunch of emails to those who requested the Sphere Mktg email. I have experienced some strange error messages while sending this. For those who didn't get a clean copy email me privately and at worst, I'll provide the phone #s and email address for Sphere.... glenn ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: demery@natlab.research.philips.com Subject: Re: The Tubes Date: 27 Nov 1996 18:09:54 GMT Ray Peck wrote: > Subject: The Tubes > > >That band is called "The Mistakes", & they have one album out on Immune. The > >lineup is Henry & Mike + bassist Andy West (ex Dregs) & drummer Prairie > >Prince (ex Tubes). It sounds like they are all having a lot of fun on it. > > The Tubes are no longer ex. They've got a new album out, which I > recently picked up. Called "Genius Of America". > It's pretty similar to "Completion Backward Principle" and "Inside/Outside", I'd say more like Fee Waybill's "Read My Lips". > Not the experimentalism of their last (and IMO best) album, "Love Bomb" How right you are. > (which was produced by Rundgren) Which begs the question, "Why did Fee ever agree to do Love Bomb after stating that he would never work with Rundgren again after he re-recorded most of the vocals on Remote Control?" > Anyway, most of the old gang is back, minus Bill Spooner and Vince > Welnick. You forgot Michael Cotton, though he is mentioned on the cover, as is Re Styles. > Anyway, probably nobody here cares, so fffth. You couldn't be more wrong! Dem (who also gives a very big thumbs up to The Mistakes album, and why was there no mention of Henry's Heart's Desire album in the recent thread?) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Torsten Nielsen Subject: Joey Baron quartet Date: 30 Nov 1996 21:29:58 +0100 (MET) Why has nobody mentioned the new Joey Baron quartet?!? In the November issue of Down Beat there's a small interview with Baron, and he mentions that he is forming the quartet with Ron Carter, Arthur Blythe and Bill Frisell. They will be playing some of Baron's tunes and some standarts, and they will record for the Intuition label. There's also a interview with Don Byron, which is pretty good... Jonas ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Torsten Nielsen Subject: Yamantaka Eye Date: 30 Nov 1996 21:30:21 +0100 (MET) What has Yamantaka Eye been doing in 1996? Has he been playing with Zorn? It seems to me, that Eye was very busy all 1995, playing and recording with Zorn, Otomo Yoshihide, Boredoms, Destroy 2, Shinro Ohtake etc... But I've only heard of very few Eye concerts in 96 and I don't know if he has recorded anything. All the Eye records that has been released this year, was recorded in 95. Just wondering... The Destroy 2 mini cd "We Are Voice And Rythm Only" is great! It's Eye on vocals and Chew on drums, playing their way through 48 songs in 10 minutes. They even do a few cover tunes. One of the best cds released in 1996 (so far...) Jonas (who just heard that Merzbow will release a 50 cd box set :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Eyvind Kang Date: 30 Nov 1996 13:23:37 -0800 On Sat, 30 Nov 1996 21:30:38 +0100 (MET) Torsten Nielsen wrote: > > How many records does Eyvind Kang play on? > I only know "7 NADES" and Frisell's "Quartet", but I remember someone said > something about a record with the Sun City Girls, and a live one where he > improvised. > A few recommendations would be nice... I will have to dig my archives, but I know at least two other ones: - GILNET (1996 - Cavity Search, ??? (CD)) - ???: Eyvind Kang (1995 - Rabid God Innoculator, ??? (7")) Very coarse information, I have to say but I will check. Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey@aol.com Subject: Re: Eyvind Kang Date: 30 Nov 1996 17:55:19 -0500 On Sat, 30 Nov 1996 21:30:38 +0100 (MET) Torsten Nielsen wrote: >How many records does Eyvind Kang play on? > I only know "7 NADES" and Frisell's "Quartet", He's also on one of the two recent Sun City Girls double CDs, 330,003 Crossdressers from Beyond the Rig Veda, where he is the focus of a half-hour long jam which is my favorite thing by him on record and he's on the recent Joe McPhee CD on Deep Listening, called Common Threads, I think. Patrice, you said: <<- GILNET (1996 - Cavity Search, ??? (CD))>> Does this actually exist? Has anyone seen it? Jon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Eyvind Kang Date: 30 Nov 1996 16:45:33 -0800 >How many records does Eyvind Kang play on? >I only know "7 NADES" and Frisell's "Quartet", but I remember someone said >something about a record with the Sun City Girls, and a live one where he >improvised. >A few recommendations would be nice... > >Jonas OK, let me go briefly into self promotion-mode here. I have a few copies left of a 10" vinyl compilation ep "The 7th Sign of Stress", on Gettin' Grumpy records that is Eyvind's first commercial recording, in a trio called Shovedevil with Mark France on guitar and myself on bass and electronics. The other featured bands are Das Neonderthrall and Arcweld, and the package includes some pretty incredible artwork by Seth Skundrick. Copies are $10.00, incl. US Postage, email me for details. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Eyvind Kang Date: 30 Nov 1996 19:10:46 -0800 On Sat, 30 Nov 1996 17:55:19 -0500 JonAbbey@aol.com wrote: > > > On Sat, 30 Nov 1996 21:30:38 +0100 (MET) Torsten Nielsen wrote: > > >How many records does Eyvind Kang play on? > > I only know "7 NADES" and Frisell's "Quartet", > > He's also on one of the two recent Sun City Girls double CDs, 330,003 > Crossdressers from Beyond the Rig Veda, where he is the focus of a half-hour > long jam which is my favorite thing by him on record and he's on the recent > Joe McPhee CD on Deep Listening, called Common Threads, I think. > > Patrice, you said: > > <<- GILNET (1996 - Cavity Search, ??? (CD))>> > > Does this actually exist? Has anyone seen it? Sure! I have a copy. It is also advertized in the last issue of Option. Patrice.