From: rizzi@netcom.com (m. rizzi) Subject: PERIODIC ZORN-LIST ADMIN INFO (please save) Date: 03 Mar 1997 19:25:24 -0800 (PST) ABOUT THE ZORN LIST The Zorn list was created so that fans of John Zorn and his MANY projects could come together and chat about the man and his music...Naked City, Masada, Painkiller, etc..... Also discussed on this list, are: Bill Laswell, Bill Frisell, Elliott Sharp, Bobby Previte, Wayne Horvitz, Zeena Parkins, Knitting Factory roster artists, Joey Baron, Last Exit posse, and any other downtown NYC connected musicians. SENDING MESSAGES TO THE ZORN LIST To post to the list, send your mail to zorn-list@xmission.com This will distribute your words of wit and wisdom to everyone who is subscribed to the list. Also, please only post messages with ASCII text. Not everyones mail readers can display MIME files and special characters (curly apostrophes and quotes, accent marks, etc.) Mac users should only send simple text messages. VERY IMPORTANT NOTE: You MUST send your messages FROM the computer account you used to subscribe to the list, otherwise the message will bounce to me and not be sent to the other subscribers. REPLYING TO MESSAGES ON THE LIST If you reply to someone on the list, it will only go to that person unless you explicitly add zorn-list@xmission.com to the To: or Cc: fields of your mail message header. Also, when replying to a message, please, Please PLEASE trim the contents of the original message down to the relevant sentence(s). This will save bandwidth and keep the digests/archives neat, tidy and easy-to-read. NORMAL OR DIGEST MODES This mailing list will be sending out messages as they are received (normal mode aka "regular mail" aka "real-time mode") in order to facilitate discussion and allow for timely notice of upcoming shows. If you prefer to receive a digest form of the zorn mailing list (one email for every bunch of messages), then send subscribe zorn-list-digest unsubscribe zorn-list end as the body of a message (the Subject line is ignored) to majordomo@xmission.com UNSUBSCRIBING To unsubscribe from the mailing list send either unsubscribe zorn-list or unsubscribe zorn-list-digest as the body of a message (the Subject line is ingored) to majordomo@xmission.com ARCHIVES Back issues are available via anonymous FTP at: ftp.xmission.com: /pub/lists/zorn-list/archive or with your favorite web browser at: ftp://ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/zorn-list/archive HUMAN CONTACT If you have any questions, comments or suggestions, do not hesitate to contact Mike Rizzi (that's me) at zorn-list-owner@xmission.com Thanks for joining! Enjoy! mike rizzi -- "Another nerd with a soulpatch" -=home=- http://www.meer.net/~browbeat/ ------ browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 --------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Schoelpen Subject: Zorn and maths Date: 03 Mar 1997 15:10:06 +0100 (MEZ) Hello zorn-list contributers The mathematical terminology used for the titles of the tracks on _Filmworks V - Tears Of Ecstasy_ made me wonder about the connections between Zorn and mathematics. This became the reason for me to subscribe to this list, that I have done recently - so I have to beg your pardon if this topic has yet been discussed. My central question is: Is there any relationship between John Zorn and the mathematician Max August Zorn, who was forced to leave Germany in 1933 and then emigrated to the USA? Please send any information about _Zorn and maths_ to me or to Hermann Hoch (Hoch@math.uni-duisburg.de). Thanks for your efforts. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ed Subject: Bloodcount show in St. Louis. Date: 04 Mar 1997 17:29:49 -0600 (CST) For those of you in the midwest, Tim Bern's Bloodcount is playing in St. Louis on Wednesday March 12 at the Washington University Gargoyle. I'm pretty sure that this show is going to be open to the public, though I know not what the cost will be. ED ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE Subject: Masada European dates Date: 05 Mar 1997 15:01:03 GMT0BST Hi! I live in Wales, and events are already planning themselves throughout April. So I REALLY need to know where and when Masada are playing. (city and date, and I can take it from there) PLEASE HELP! Dave Douglas is my life support machine Sean ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rizzi@netcom.com (m. rizzi) Subject: testing (please ignore) Date: 06 Mar 1997 14:50:14 -0800 (PST) Sorry for the extraneous message, we're testing a software change at xmission.com mike rizzi - zorn-list-owner ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Damianbndi@aol.com Subject: Re: Tim Berne in Chicago Date: 07 Mar 1997 12:24:55 -0500 (EST) In a message dated 97-02-21 12:50:37 EST, you write: >just a note to let everybody know that Tim Berne's Bloodcount will be >making am appearance here in Louisville, KY on Marsh 14th. If you're >interested in this, email me and I'll keep you posted as I find And here in Chicago in addition to playing at the Elbo Room Saturday 9 pm (773-549-5549) 2871 N Lincoln Ave they are making a concert appearance at the Jazz Record Mart around 4 pm earlier that same day-tomorrow. Anyone in the general area interested can see them for FREE at the Record Mart-- 444 N Wabash (312-222-1467) They are coming in from Ann Arbor MI and will be setting up at the Elbo Room so they figure on squeezing in 45-60 minutes here around 4 pm of great tunes. See you there. Damian ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: heesen@philo.uva.nl (Berrie Heesen) Subject: Susan Dehim Date: 07 Mar 1997 19:29:05 +0100 Hi musos in the air. I wonder if any of you does have suggestions on Susan Dehim. I have this great record Desert Equations. What did she do afterwards? Berrie Heesen Berrie Heesen coordinator Journal 100 Faculteit der Wijsbegeerte Nieuwe Doelenstraat 15 1012 CP Amsterdam The Netherlands +31 20 525 4526 or 6165369 " I have thought about this very carefully. I think I can make new words because if no-one could make them, then no-one can learn them. Jake Roberts, 8 years old." From journal 100 number 2, European children think together. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton Subject: Re: Joey Baron & " Jazz Snob Eat Shit " (Naked City) Date: 12 Mar 1997 01:12:56 -0500 (EST) On Wed, 12 Mar 1997, NGUYEN VAN TAN Olivier wrote: > I 've got an interview of Joey Baron in a French paper : Joey explains > that he was in fact a jazz snob for a long time... [snip] > And he met Bill Frisell : that was a crux in his life. In the interview with Baron a few months ago in _Cadence_, Baron made similar comments. Apparently a big turning point for him was being dragged by Frisell to a gig involving Arto Lindsay (who, as most people on this list probably know, can't play guitar conventionally at all), and then being shocked to find out that this "incompetent" "non-musician" was one of Frisell's heroes. Truly, Arto is an inspiration to us all. Chris Hamilton ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey@aol.com Subject: Re: New Fred Frith Album on Tzadik ? Date: 12 Mar 1997 02:34:21 -0500 (EST) <<209 - EYE TO EAR: Fred Frith 1/ Le Rencontre (Title Theme) (Frith) 4:11 2/ Backroom (Frith) 3:22 3/ Thea und Nat (Frith) 12:22 I/ Welcome Home II/ Suspicion Theme (for Bernard Herrmann) III/ Thea's Theme IV/ Suspicion Theme II V/ Not Drwoning But Waving 4/ Backroom II (Frith) 5:30 5/ Picture of Light (Frith) 9:47 6/ Ostkreuz (Frith) 6:00 I/ Frozen Landscape II/ Dragging Half A Pig III/ Driving To Grandma's IV/ In The Abandoned Building 7/ Before Sunrise - In The Train (Frith) 2:47 8/ Backroom III (Frith) 8:07 9/ Le Rencontre (Reprise) (Frith) 3:36 (1,3,6,9) recorded at Sound Fabrik, Munich, Germany (2,4,5,8) recorded at Mobius Studio, San Francisco (7) recorded at Jankowski Studio, Stuttgart, Germany Michaela Dietl (3,6): accordion; Tilman Mueller (3,6): trumpet; Christian Kaya (3): clarinet; Boris Denker (1,9): tenor; Willy Webster (2,4,8): organ; Fred Frith: all other instruments and manipulations. 1997 - Tzadik (USA), TZ 7503 (CD) Seems to be out.>> Actually, it's being released next Tuesday, the 18th. Jon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Russell Subject: Re: Otomo (was Burroughs) Date: 12 Mar 1997 09:45:06 +0000 simon lucas wrote: > >> Who else is tackling the problem of meaning and context using the > sample? > > What do others think about random vs. composed sample-based music? > Simon You've touched on a subject with a potentially vast range. As far as others exploring the use of samples the ones who spring immediately to mind are: Bob Ostertag, tape and sampler manipulator. Played with Fred Frith and Zorn among others. Uses found sounds and custom recordings, re-orders them, cuts them up, swills them around. Most recent project is Say No More series which (I'll admit I haven't heard it yet) takes improvisations by Joey Baron, Phil Minton and others and reorganises them. These are then performed live, re-sampled and rearranged again. The final incarnation of this is yet another live performance and yet another re-organised version of them. David Shea: Sampler/composer. Another cohort of Zorn et al. Specialises in extremely sophisticated sampler based compositions involving samples from soundtracks (Barry, Morricone, Japanese Action movies) interaction with live musicians and dialougue. John Oswald; godfather of plunderphonics. Compiles massively reworked collages of samples. Reworks them to the point of being unrecognisable then generally gets sued by major lables. Most ambitious project has to be his stunning collage of The Grateful Dead's Dark Star as sanctioned by the band. John Wall. London based composer who utilises samples in dark, industrial/ambient style compositions. negativland; The US media pranksters who 'parodied' a U2 song and got sued both by Island Records and SST records for it. There is a large tome called The Story of the Letter U and the Numeral 2 which documents this saga and gives a useful introduction into Negativland's theories of ownership and 'appropriation'. These are the people whom I know about in addition to Otomo, you might also want to check Chris Cutler's ReR label, on which many artists are exploring the possibilities of sampling and plundering. I'd be intertested in any other comments you may have. Scott Russell ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ssmith@knittingfactory.com (Steve Smith) Subject: Re: cynical hysterie hour Date: 12 Mar 1997 10:34:07 -0500 Jeff Spirer wrote: >I think one reason it was so hard to find when it was in print was that >people always wanted a John Zorn recording, but instead it was sold as a >soundtrack to the show. It was sold more in the children's section of CD >stores in Japan. Absolutely true. It's also important, perhaps, to note that Zorn's name did not appear anywhere on the package: the release was listed as being by Kiriko Kubo. >It did go out of print quickly but given that Sony released it as a >soundtrack, this is not surprising. No, what's really surprising is that, given Zorn's solid track record (especially during the Nonesuch years) Sony has never seen fit to capitolize with a reissue of some kind to grab some of that sales potential. And the truly unforgiveable thing is that they won't even license his material back to him for a Tzadik release, which would be the honorable thing to do if they are not issuing it themselves - say, for instance, if they didn't feel like the potential audience was big enough next to a new Mariah Carey release. Steve Smith ssmith@knittingfactory.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: flamerik@best.ms.philips.com Subject: Re: Otomo (was Burroughs) Date: 12 Mar 1997 16:19:14 --100 On sample-based music: > You've touched on a subject with a potentially vast range. As far as > others exploring the use of samples the ones who spring immediately to > mind are: > > Bob Ostertag, tape and sampler manipulator. Played with Fred Frith and > > David Shea: Sampler/composer. Another cohort of Zorn et al. > John Oswald; godfather of plunderphonics. Compiles massively reworked > John Wall. London based composer who utilises samples in dark, > industrial/ambient style compositions. > > negativland; The US media pranksters who 'parodied' a U2 song and got > > These are the people whom I know about in addition to Otomo, you might > also want to check Chris Cutler's ReR label, on which many artists are > exploring the possibilities of sampling and plundering. I think you are forgetting DJ Shadow, an American DJ (from LA?) issuing records on the Mo'Wax label. His music is entirely built up of samples, although it sounds as if musicians are playing (at least large parts of it sound like that). Although DJ Shadow insists on being called hip-hop, I think that narrows down his perspective too much. There's hip hop beats for sure, but then there's also film music, dreamlike sequences, harsh bits, etc. Almost sounds like a collage of the best 1970's albums sometimes. Try Endtroducing... on Mo'Wax. Frankco. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: New Fred Frith Album on Tzadik ? Date: 12 Mar 1997 08:08:57 -0800 On Wed, 12 Mar 1997 02:34:21 -0500 (EST) JonAbbey@aol.com wrote: > > <<209 - EYE TO EAR: Fred Frith > > 1997 - Tzadik (USA), TZ 7503 (CD) > > Seems to be out.>> > > Actually, it's being released next Tuesday, the 18th. It seems the Europe got it before. The person who told me about it is German and bought it in a store. I will never understand the mysteries of distribution... Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nils Jacobson Subject: Re: Zony Mash Date: 12 Mar 1997 11:16:14 -0600 (CST) I don't know why anyone would get all that excited about this Zony Mash disc. It's not particularly forward looking and succeeds fairly well but not spectacularly musically. I know Horvitz is popular but I don't see much of a reason for folks to rush out and buy this disc. Just to add a voice of dissent to the surge of agreement. -Nils ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Otomo (was Burroughs) Date: 12 Mar 1997 10:39:21 -0800 >On sample-based music: > >I think you are forgetting DJ Shadow, an American DJ (from LA?) issuing >records on the Mo'Wax label. His music is entirely built up of samples, >although it sounds as if musicians are playing (at least large parts of it >sound like that). Although DJ Shadow insists on being called hip-hop, I think >that narrows down his perspective too much. There's hip hop beats for sure, >but then there's also film music, dreamlike sequences, harsh bits, etc. >Almost sounds like a collage of the best 1970's albums sometimes. > >Try Endtroducing... on Mo'Wax. > Oddly enough, I was listening to Endtroducing for the first time as I read this msg. His cut "Why Hip Hop Sucks in '96" is pretty hilarious. But as far as innovative sample-based music fronm the DJ world, I think DJ Spooky is much more interesting than DJ Shadow. His "Songs of a Dead Dreamer" disc on Asphodel is one of my faves of any style of music released last year. Incredible stuff, as dense as any of Otomo's work, but with great '70's funk/hip hop/dub underpinnings And for the Burroughs connection, his full nom-de-turntable is DJ Spooky, the Subliminal Kid, after a Burroughs ccharacter... ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "M.Ho" Subject: Re: Zony Mash Date: 12 Mar 1997 13:30:34 EST > > I don't know why anyone would get all that excited about this Zony Mash > disc. It's not particularly forward looking and succeeds fairly well but > not spectacularly musically. I know Horvitz is popular but I don't see > much of a reason for folks to rush out and buy this disc. Just to add a > voice of dissent to the surge of agreement. > > -Nils This is not ment to insult you but could you give more specifics on why you do not like this album. I just generally live by the rule that if I don't have specific criticism for an album that I dislike, I'll just keep my mouth shut because sometimes things won't work for me now but may later. I'm asking for your specific opinion because the postings have sparked my interest in purchasing this album but would like to get your side of it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Glenn Astarita" Subject: Re: Zony Mash Date: 12 Mar 1997 12:06:34 -0600 ---------- > From: Nils Jacobson > Subject: Re: Zony Mash > Date: Wednesday, March 12, 1997 11:16 AM > > I don't know why anyone would get all that excited about this Zony Mash > disc. It's not particularly forward looking and succeeds fairly well but > not spectacularly musically. I know Horvitz is popular but I don't see > much of a reason for folks to rush out and buy this disc. Just to add a > voice of dissent to the surge of agreement. > > -Nils > > > I disagree...personally, i'd say its one of the more "happening" things of late ! It's toe-tappin, exhilarating and combines all the elements of Horvitz' unique insight and uncanny approach ! This stuff would most obviously appeal to a wider audience. granted ! However, take the rock elements combined with the twist and turns, great but thoughtful soloing and stop on a dime tempos ! A definite First Class effort. The compositions really add a wonderful element to this disk. No filler material here ! (IMO, of course)... glenn ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Boster Subject: Re: Otomo (was Burroughs) Date: 12 Mar 1997 11:59:48 -0800 (PST) Not sure if I should really wade into this, but since I actually make music this way I guess I have at least a certain position that bears mentioning. I perform with CD players and electronics extensively, both in a solo DJ-like capacity as well as in improvisational gropu settings. On the question of "chance", someone said: > > > It seems to me that Otomo is more > >'Burroughsian' than these in that his collages are live and improvised > >as opposed to constructed. He really allows for chance to bring > >together disparate elements. This is true of Otomo's work from our perspective as well as his. The improvisation is "apparent" in the work, and for him, works to great effect. He does something I often try to do, which is "compose" through a given set of possible source material and possible things to do with it (the finite parameters of what the machines in question can do) and then "improvise" the outcome of any given performance. Someone points this out clearly: > 1. As you say, he must select records and choose which ones he plays in > advance , but also, maybe he knows which sections will work within a > given context from experience. Expereince is a key idea. Like any other instrument, as you learn about how your "rig" works many self-evident and self-limiting aspects of what the equipment can do becomes clear. These things structure the outcome implicitly, and explains why many people are constantly changing or developing their equipment sets to help keep from "settling" into a pattern. > > Personally, I want to understand how he achieves this. > > Who else is tackling the problem of meaning and context using the > sample? I know I am in my work. I think clearly there are a number of other performers/composers who touch down in this territory as well (John Oswald, Negativland, Bob Ostertag, and some of the illbient folks). In terms of reading on the subject, the first place to look for "theory" is the Negativland book. > > What do others think about random vs. composed sample-based music? > I can't help but think that there's no such thing as random. I mean, even if I set up all my stuff and then "randomly" sift through a pile of source material in a given performance, the outcome makes surprising kinds of sense. Even a piece I did for a group of people blindly mixing material I randomly played in 8 CD players ended up making a lot of sense. Juxtaposition works that way, to large extent. And the linearity of sounds lead us down certain cognitive pathes as well. Even played backwards samples make some kinds of linear sense because that's how we hear often, the sound moving forward through time with us. Bob Boster (aka Mr. Meridies) boster@mills.edu friction@pobox.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt Subject: Wayne Horvitz & Zony Mash Date: 12 Mar 1997 16:32:59 -0500 I think that this album is decent. I do like it although some of the music (compositions) aren't very interesting and they don't seem to have a lot of energy for the sound they're going for. Wayne Horvitz's organ playing also just seems primitive and a little bit lame too because the one of the only B-3 players I've been listening to in the past 2 years is John Medeski (who I hear A LOT of) so I was disappointed to hear somebody playing it that just didn't have the flavor of Medeski. Medeski just makes Horvitz sound lame to me. Anyway, it IS a fun album and has some groove merit but I really don't understand the Zony Mash craze that some people seem to have gotten into. -Tom Pratt ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Glenn Astarita" Subject: Re: Wayne Horvitz & Zony Mash Date: 12 Mar 1997 16:36:43 -0600 ---------- > From: Tom Pratt > To: zorn-list@xmission.com > Subject: Wayne Horvitz & Zony Mash > Date: Wednesday, March 12, 1997 3:32 PM > > I think that this album is decent. I do like it although some of the > music (compositions) aren't very interesting and they don't seem to have > a lot of energy for the sound they're going for. Wayne Horvitz's organ > playing also just seems primitive and a little bit lame too because the > one of the only B-3 players I've been listening to in the past 2 years > is John Medeski (who I hear A LOT of) so I was disappointed to hear > somebody playing it that just didn't have the flavor of Medeski. > Medeski just makes Horvitz sound lame to me. Anyway, it IS a fun album > and has some groove merit but I really don't understand the Zony Mash > craze that some people seem to have gotten into. A B-3, is well....a... B-3 ! I really don't see much of a difference in the "sound" dept. Could you actually pass a blindfold test of organ riffs alternating between Medeski and Horvitz ? Primitive and lame ? What does lame mean in this context ? BTW, the Zony Mash cd (IMO) is far more interesting than the latest MM&W effort. Seems like MM&W have reached a pinnacle of creativity and need to diversify. I'd say they've stagnated ! Has John Medeski (whom i like very much btw..) set the new standard by which to compare ? For that matter what do you think of Jimmy Smith or John Patton ? to name but a few ... glenn > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "kevin cornish" Subject: Masada European dates Date: 12 Mar 1997 23:05:51 -0000 is it rumour or are /is masada playing in europe ? can anyone give any details to masada european dates ? in particular are they playing in uk ? if not why not ? kevin kcornish@netcomuk.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt Subject: Re: Wayne Horvitz & Zony Mash Date: 12 Mar 1997 19:57:10 -0500 > A B-3, is well....a... B-3 ! I really don't see much of a difference > in the "sound" dept. John Medeski sounds completely different tone wise than any other B-3 player I've ever heard. He tweeks with the sounds so much more than any one else, and his style is so definitive. > Could you actually pass a blindfold test of organ riffs > alternating between Medeski and Horvitz ? Absolutely. > Primitive and lame ? What does > lame mean in this context ? I mean it's more funny sounding than cool sounding. > BTW, the Zony Mash cd (IMO) is far more > interesting than the latest MM&W effort. Seems like MM&W have reached > a pinnacle of creativity and need to diversify. I'd say they've > stagnated ! I agree that 'Shack-Man' isn't as good as the rest of 'em but it jams harder than Zony Mash especially live. those songs off the new album I think are decent on the CD but live they are awesome! I don't know about them having stagnated, I think this is where they want to go and I think you'll find the next CD to be very different from 'Shack-Man'. > Has John Medeski (whom i > like very much btw..) set the new standard by which to compare? I think definitely he has. His unique approach to keyboards and effects backed up by unbelievable chops makes him a completely new and one of if not the most important keyboardists around. He plays the B-3 like no one else ever has and does and his explorations into other keyboards make you say "wait are there TWO guitars in this band?" Not to mention his u\amazing piano playing. listen to 'Notes From The Underground' or the Andre Jaume/John Medeski duets album 'Team Games' or Dougie Bowne's 'One Way Elevator' to get a flavor of this. For that > matter what do you think of Jimmy Smith or John Patton ? to name but a few > ... I think they're great especially Richard "Groove" Holmes. He busts it up soulwise but on the creatively groundbreaking side, they're lacking, but I don't think they were ever trying to do this. They were playing what they loved, felt and moved them and their audience. I don't think Zony Mash is a bad album by any respects. I just don't particularly like Horvitz's Hammond playing that much. I think the album is fun and sometimes funny and it will remain in my CD collection and be played sort of often. I don't think that it's spectacular. -Tom Pratt ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Justin Morrison Subject: Re: Wayne Horvitz & Zony Mash Date: 12 Mar 1997 21:02:23 -0800 James L. Kirchmer wrote: > just droppin' a note to say that Zony Mash's debut album, > titled "Cold Spell", is out and it's HOT! . . . > time, as the original compositions presented by Wayne on this Zony Mash > debut have just the right hint of a late '60's funk/blues/improv > influence. > Wayne gives the funk a bit of a scientific treatment as well. > I suppose "avant-funk improv" might be a good label, but I hate labels. Not that this is that important or anything, but does the funk/blues influence sound like it could have come from the Meters? They had songs called "Zony Mash" and "Dry Spell". Just wondering if this was a reference. . . --Justin, Toronto ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt Subject: misc. Date: 12 Mar 1997 21:58:54 -0500 Justin Morrison wrote: > > James L. Kirchmer wrote: > > > just droppin' a note to say that Zony Mash's debut album, > > titled "Cold Spell", is out and it's HOT! > . . . > > time, as the original compositions presented by Wayne on this Zony Mash > > debut have just the right hint of a late '60's funk/blues/improv > > influence. > > Wayne gives the funk a bit of a scientific treatment as well. > > I suppose "avant-funk improv" might be a good label, but I hate labels. > > Not that this is that important or anything, but does the funk/blues > influence sound like it could have come from the Meters? They had songs > called "Zony Mash" and "Dry Spell". Just wondering if this was a > reference. . . > > --Justin, Toronto Yup. The Meters influence is definitely there. Zony Mash was indeed taken from a Meters song. By the way, does anyone know if John Zorn himself reads any of this stuff or if he even has an e-mail address? Also, I was talking to Erik Friedlander and he says that Zorn is planning on recording some more Masada stuff this year. Erik says that it's hard to say what the whole concept is going to be but that it will involve a string trio. Maybe even a string trio record with Mark Feldman, Erik Friedlander and Greg Cohen. This trio will be touring Europe in November and maybe the states next year some time. Just some info as vague as it may be. -Tom Pratt ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ssmith@knittingfactory.com (Steve Smith) Subject: Re: Wayne Horvitz & Zony Mash Date: 12 Mar 1997 23:17:03 -0500 James L. Kirchmer wrote: >Not that this is that important or anything, but does the funk/blues >influence sound like it could have come from the Meters? They had songs >called "Zony Mash" and "Dry Spell". Just wondering if this was a >reference. . . Right on the money. Steve ssmith@knittingfactory.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton Subject: Re: groundbreaking organists Date: 13 Mar 1997 03:56:18 -0500 (EST) On Wed, 12 Mar 1997, Tom Pratt wrote: > For that > > matter what do you think of Jimmy Smith or John Patton ? to name but a few > > ... > > I think they're great especially Richard "Groove" Holmes. He busts it up > soulwise but on the creatively groundbreaking side, they're lacking, but > I don't think they were ever trying to do this. They were playing what > they loved, felt and moved them and their audience. Um, wasn't Smith the first person to develop a jazz style on electric organ? How could this not be creatively groundbreaking? Chris Hamilton ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox Subject: Re: Burroughs Date: 13 Mar 1997 20:06:38 +1100 (EST) Hi, Burroughs book actually took its title from an old SF novel by Allan E Nourse (I think), maybe from the 40s: a borrowing Burroughs acknowledged. Dunno why the studio used the title for Scott's film of Dick's novel, but Burroughs gets a thanks for the use of it at the end of the closing credits... Cheers On Mon, 10 Mar 1997, SUGAR in their vitamins? wrote: > > On Mon, 10 Mar 1997, Christopher Hamilton wrote: > > > > I can't remember any specific references (apart from the mention of > > > Blade Runner in the notes to Spillane) in Zorn's case but his whole > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > Are you running together Burroughs and Philip K. Dick here? > > if memory serves, the Dick book > was originally titled something > like "Do Androids Dream of > Electric Sheep?". it was only > after the book was turned into > the film "Blade Runner" that the > book title changed. i'm sure > someone can correct me if i'm > horribly wrong... > > whereas, Burroughs did write a > screenplay book (in the '70s, i > believe) titled "Blade Runner" > about teenaged bisexual boys > working as drug runners in an > appocalyptic, post-world war III > America. > > hasta. > > Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox Subject: Re: chance vs. indeterminacy Date: 13 Mar 1997 20:16:23 +1100 (EST) Oh, there shouldn't be any problem linking Zorn and Cage (see way below) - round the time Zorn was busy being born, Cage wrote instructions in his piece 'Water Music' for the player to blow thru a clarinet mouthpiece into a bowl of water (!). Couple years later, Cage did his amazing 'Fontana Mix' - still a solid piece of cut/up musique concrete. Cheers... On Tue, 11 Mar 1997, Scott Russell wrote: > Matthew Ross Davis wrote: > > > You have to be very careful about the difference between "chance" and > > "indeterminacy" when talking about Cage. He (and several others, myself > > included) considered "chance" the action of using chance methods in > > composing the work - i.e. casting I Ching hexagrams or rolling dice. > > "Chance" happened *before* the piece ever got handed to the musicians. > > > > "Indeterminacy" is a whole different ballgame. "Indeterminate" scores leave > > certain (or all) elements of the piece up to the whim of the performer. > > This could be within certain constraints or with no rules at all. > > > > With this in mind, Zorn's compositions are almost never chance, and nearly > > always indeterminate (I think this is what you meant anyway). There is a > > fine line too between improvisatory and indeterminate, especially in Zorn's > > terms. For example, in Cobra, the process by which instructions and > > flash-cards are given and requested is indeterminate; the improvisatory > > part comes with the interpretation of those instructions. By the same > > token, you could always call improvisation an 'indeterminate' act. So you > > see, they're not mutually exclusive, but they're not synonyms either. > > > > I wouldn't make this point if Cage himself hadn't emphasized it as well. > > And since you're making the comparison, it's worth while to examine the > > terminology and philosophy behind it. > > > > I'm not sure if you can apply this to Burroughs's cut-ups or not. The > > cut-up is usually constructed only once. It's not so much a performance as > > it is a sculpture, so it's arguable whether or not the technique (in Cagean > > terms) would be considered chance methods or indeterminate methods. The > > lines between in this case grow very cloudy indeed. > > > > Matthew > > Thanks Matthew > > You are splitting some very fine hairs indeed! Perhaps I shouldn't > have mentioned Cage in reference to Zorn, it seems to raise some > hackles.My comments about Zorn's (alleged) use of chance were meant on > a fairly general level, however I do agree with your comparison of > Burrough's cut ups to sculpture. I wonder, if Burroughs had turned to > music (I mean as an instrumenalist rather than a 'reader') as well as > texts and visuals, if he would have extended his technique to > incorporate time, which is essentially the distinction we are making > here. Zorn, Shea, Otomo etc have more 'information' to play with;ie > music has volume, velocity, texture, time etc where text is obviously > fixed. I think Otomo's approach is closest to Burroughs. > > What do you think? > > Scott Russell. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox Subject: Whoops! Date: 13 Mar 1997 20:31:38 +1100 (EST) Sorry! (and belatedly so) - that shoulda been Nicolas Slonimsky... On Wed, 19 Feb 1997, James Douglas Knox wrote: > In a coupla interviews Zorn refers to Nicholas Smolinsky's 1952 book, ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Friedrich Feger Subject: Re: Wayne Horvitz & Zony Mash Date: 13 Mar 1997 12:27:24 +0100 At 16:36 12.03.97 -0600, Glenn Astarita wrote: >A B-3, is well....a... B-3 ! I really don't see much of a difference in >the "sound" dept. Though it doesn't match the general topic of the list, I should contradict. The B-3 allows thousands of different registrations with extremely divergent sounds. It is very easy to make the B-3 sound unbalanced or boring, whereas - apart from commonly known standard settings - a good new sound is a difficult task. Someone whose sounds I like, although rather traditional in most cases, is Larry Goldings. Best wishes, Fritz Feger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Glenn Astarita" Subject: Re: Wayne Horvitz & Zony Mash Date: 13 Mar 1997 06:04:15 -0600 ---------- > > > At 16:36 12.03.97 -0600, Glenn Astarita wrote: > > >A B-3, is well....a... B-3 ! I really don't see much of a difference in > >the "sound" dept. > > Though it doesn't match the general topic of the list, I should contradict. > The B-3 allows thousands of different registrations with extremely > divergent sounds. It is very easy to make the B-3 sound unbalanced or > boring, whereas - apart from commonly known standard settings - a good new > sound is a difficult task. Someone whose sounds I like, although rather > traditional in most cases, is Larry Goldings. > > Best wishes, > Fritz Feger Yeah, i suppose...there are many sublties and intricacies involved; basically, I think the B3 in its own right is rather "easily identifiable". Perhaps more so than synths, digital guitar and so on... Overall, i generally don't hear that "wide a range" of different available sound shaping techniques.... glenn ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dennis summers Subject: ATTN: S. Wilkie Date: 13 Mar 1997 07:48:43 -0700 (MST) Sorry to post this to the group but my message to S. Wilkie was returned by the mailer daemon, and this may be of some interest to others. >hi - can you give me details of the nature of the beast cd you picked >up? personnel/length etc... is it available from stores?label?cat. >number? thanks!... > > Michael Formanek "Nature of the Beast" enja ENJ-9308 2 1997. Dave Douglas/trumpet; Steve Swell/trombone; Tim Berne/alto saxophone; Tony Malaby/alto saxophone; Chris Speed/clarinet; Michael Formanek/bass; Jim Black/drums. 8 tracks ~68 minutes total. Can't tell you about availability because as I said he was selling it from the show, but if it's not out now, I'm sure it'll be out soon. yours --ds ***Quantum Dance Works*** ****http://ic.net/~denniss**** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Caleb Deupree Subject: Re: sampling (was Otomo (was Burroughs)) Date: 13 Mar 1997 20:17:53 -0500 (EST) I too am fascinated by the sampler as an instrument, and purely from a listener's point of view. I agree completely with the excellent list of sampler artists mentioned so far (although I'd rate Plexure *much* higher than GrayFolded, which still sounds too much like the Dead for me). Negativland in my experience has been lots of voices like on radio (which command more attention than instruments), whereas the others range from instrumental to unrecognizable. That's not bad, I just find it harder to be around because I find words so demanding -- it's like you're forced to try to impose some kind of meaning on them. YMMV. I'd like to add one more album to the recommended list. The Euro-Free-Jazz artists Hans Koch (reeds & samplers), Martin Schutz (cello) and Fredy Studer (percussion) have an album Hardcore Chambermusic on Intakt. Anyone who has Chockshut (also on Intakt) or Cowws Quintet (on FMP) will feel very much at home, a further exploration of the outer limits where jazz, electronics, and rock come together (although Hardcore Chambermusic doesn't have Stephen Wittwer on guitar). They are noisy, exuberant, but intricate and detailed and with a wide dynamic range, sometimes difficult and always amazing. On Hardcore Chambermusic they credit all of the sample origins. They include (and this list *by no means* exhausts the number, maybe ten different ones per track) Kagel, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Bartok, George Clinton, Jimi Hendrix, Tom Waits.... IMO essential for everyone interested in this area, if for no other reason than because it's intelligent, thoughtful, and like no one else. I highly recommend Chockshut and Cowws as well for those who like their Eurojazz noisy. -- Caleb T. Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com ;; For every complex question there is a simple answer. ;; And it is wrong. (H. L. Mencken) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Les@voyager.umeres.maine.edu (Les Rhoda) Subject: Medeski/Zorn worship, Negativland Date: 13 Mar 1997 22:17:17 -0500 > Has John Medeski (whom i > like very much btw..) set the new standard by which to compare? Absolutely. He's like the Jimi Hendrix of the B-3, always digging into new effects, tonalities, tricks and tweaks unlike anyone has yet to try on the keyboards he uses. Medeski is very much influenced by Hendrix and Sun Ra, among others, and by combining these influences with his mammoth talent it seems like he's a bottomless well of new ideas. I don't think anyone since Jimmy Smith has had such an impact on the state of the Hammond. It doesn't stop there, though, for he is also taking the Clavinet and Wurlitzer to new extremes on a nightly basis. I have spoken to many keyboard players about him, and the consensus is much akin to when Jaco Pastorius or Hendrix arrived on the scene.... time to hit the woodshed! >negativland; The US media pranksters who 'parodied' a U2 song and got >sued For all of you Negativfans, take note: Negativland are on the verge of releasing a new album whose main theme has to do with Pepsi, and very well could get them sued into oblivion and give them more material for another book. Keep a lookout for it, and snatch it up as soon as you can! >By the way, does anyone know if John Zorn himself reads any of this >stuff or if he even has an e-mail address? Between all of the musical projects he has going on, plus being the king of obscure books/music/films, and jetting back and forth between NYC and Hip's Road, I'd bet that he doesn't have time for this stuff. I bet he gets a little glow knowing that we're here and worship him, though :) Les http://inferno.asap.um.maine.edu/emp/les/negativland.html audience member to Frisell: "Turn it up, Bill!" innocent french guy: "Show dem your nasty side" Zorn, with venom: "You can SUCK his nasty side!" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Howes Subject: Sample Artists?! ((WAS: Re: Otomo) (was Burroughs)) Date: 13 Mar 1997 22:21:05 -0800 >You've touched on a subject with a potentially vast range. As far as >others exploring the use of samples the ones who spring immediately to >mind are: > >Bob Ostertag, tape and sampler manipulator. Played with Fred Frith and > >David Shea: Sampler/composer. Another cohort of Zorn et al. > >John Oswald; godfather of plunderphonics. Compiles massively reworked > >John Wall. London based composer who utilises samples in dark, >industrial/ambient style compositions. > >negativland; The US media pranksters who 'parodied' a U2 song and got > >I'd be intertested in any other comments you may have. I thought id throw in a list of some of my favorites since this is my favorite "style" of music making. I tend to have a hard time separating the following; turntable artists (Marclay, Yoshihide) media sample artists (Negativland, The Tape-beatles) strange recording people (Dunn, Lerman) using records...but... (Crawling with Tarts, Milk Cult) ultra dense samplers (Grief, Watermann) and even some Musique concrete (Ferrari, Ruttman) they all do the same for me...and I love it...so some other recommendations.... The Tape-beatles: Very much like Negativland...media samples..less humor more pointed Steinski & Mass Media: see Negativland and the Tape-beatles John Waterman: One of my favorites..I love what he does with sampled voices Dan Burke's (Illusion of Safety) solo stuff: The "Rules Of the Game" release, which is actually under "Illusion of Safety" is all samples and some of the stuff he collaborated on with Randy Grief is also all samples. Randy Grief: I'm always in awe of what he does..I like his older stuff where he plays instruments along with the samples.... People Like Us: One of my favorites..a lighter Negativland with not such harsh cuts. Christian Marclay: Surprise I haven't seen him mentioned with the turntable people. Head and Leg: almost a Negativland copy Phillip Kent Bimstein: does he count? I think all of his compositions are created with samples.. David Cunningham: The only think I know by him is "Voiceworks" on Eva our of Japan. It's tape manipulations of the directions given to 6 dancers for a performance. I guess Tape manipulations don't count as samples but it sounds very much the same to me. Alvin Curran: He has a handful of sample compositions. Crawling With Tarts: Their (his?) "Operas" release was all created with old records Milk Cult: The destruction of records to create music...I love it. Richard Lerman and David Dunn who do micro recordings of things..Dunn's piece on Arial #2 where he records pond insects is nice. Richard Lerman's release on Artifact where he records with contact mics the sounds of trees, grass, and other natural sounds is very nice. Lastly in the Musique concrete direction is the whole 3" CD series on Metamkine out of France, which includes releases from Ferrari, Marchetti, Chion, Ruttmann, and many more. Lastly on this list is a question. I have a release from a group that goes buy "Peril". It's on a label our of Australia called "Dr Jim's". Otomo Yoshihide is on it and it's great. Do these 4 have anything else out. sample away mike mhowes@best.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: flamerik@best.ms.philips.com Subject: Re: Sample Artists?! ((WAS: Re: Otomo) (was Burroughs)) Date: 14 Mar 1997 08:46:41 --100 Mike wrote: > Lastly on this list is a question. I have a release from a group that goes > buy "Peril". It's on a label our of Australia called "Dr Jim's". Otomo > Yoshihide is on it and it's great. Do these 4 have anything else out. Although I've never heard Peril (unfortunately so), I know their drummer, Tony Buck, is also in a band called The Necks. However, The Necks' music is totally different - it is described best as jazz soundscapes, I guess. Ultra-long songs (in the range of 50-65 minutes), very laid back. I have two albums by them, "Sex" and "Silent Night" (2CD). "Sex" is a 56:08 steady bass pattern, underscored by shifting drums patterns and piano overlays. "Silent Night" adds some musique concrete and organ to it two tracks, called "Black" and "White". Frankco. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jan-Wen Lu Subject: Sample-based artists Date: 14 Mar 1997 17:08:58 +0800 I'm very interested in sample-based artists. Started with Marclay, then I found Ostertag, Otomo, Shea, etc. Recently, many artists were talked on this list. I think there are more great artists so I list them as the following: 1.Martin Tetreault-a canadian artist who uses turntable as his main instrument. His style is very similar to Marclay, but he has played for about 15 years. He is also a member of a great Canadian group-Bruire. 2.Rik Rue-an Australian composer/artist who use tape, sampler to creat unique music. Otomo was influenced by him. Has collaborated with Eugene Chadbourne, Jon Rose, Machine For Making Sense(a great Australian contemporary/improv group). 3.Frank Schulte-a usual collaborator with Jon Rose. Schulte uses synthesizer , sampler, tapes, turntable, etc. that made Rose's musci more interesting. He also collaborated with Anna Homler, David Moss and has his own group Sotto in Su(a group with trumpet, computer, sampler, tape, vocal). 4.Palinckx-a dutch group that combines their improv playing and different samples(pop songs, jazz, country, etc.). Sometimes they covers old songs in a very funny way. 5.Kunt Remond-I've heard he is a member of Voice Crack. This swiss artist samples pre-recordings of some artists and creates a very spectacular work. The method is similar to Ostertag's "Say No More". But the result is close to John Wall's "Alterstill". Also a great live electronics/sample group-FURT, talented Canadian female tape/sampler artist-Diane Labrosse(a member of Justine). Those who love sample-based music must buy the latest issue of Resonance magazine. It is a special issue with sample-based artists. Ostertag, Shea, Martin Tetreault, Tim Hodgkinson, etc. Comes with a free CD with unrelesed tunes of Shea, Stock, Hausen & Walkman, Otomo with Sainkho, Ostertag with Minton, etc. -- Jan-Wen Lu E-Mail address: janwenlu@asiaonline.net.tw ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Anthony Saunders Subject: Painkiller / Grindcore Date: 14 Mar 1997 09:40:35 -0500 (EST) I just got Guts Of A Virgin used at Kim's in NYC, and I love it. Much better than the also incredible Buried Secrets, or so says my roommate, I love 'em both. Besides the Execution Ground 3xCD, are there any other Painkiller cds? Painkiller like projects? (mix of jazz, grind, and ambient, with out the somewhat goofy feel of naked city...) To play the critic a little more, I think i the Masonna like vocals on Guts of a Virign really pulls it a head of Buried Secrets for me. I'm especially interested in sax/bass/drum trios that blast beat. : ) BTW If anyone out there is into grindcore, I have an excellent collection of grind (real grind like Assuck, Napalm Death, Discordance Axis, Agoraphobic Nosebleed, etc...), both records and live tapes, and would love to tape trade grind for jazz. Anthony ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Spirer Subject: Re: Painkiller / Grindcore Date: 14 Mar 1997 07:19:34 -0800 At 09:40 AM 3/14/97 -0500, Anthony Saunders wrote: > > I just got Guts Of A Virgin used at Kim's in NYC, and I love it. Much >better than the also incredible Buried Secrets, or so says my roommate, I >love 'em both. Besides the Execution Ground 3xCD, are there any other >Painkiller cds? Painkiller like projects? (mix of jazz, grind, and >ambient, with out the somewhat goofy feel of naked city...) There's the Painkiller Live _Rituals_ CD. Check out the God stuff, it comes reasonably close to what you are asking for. And an interesting antecedent is Brotzman/Laswell: _Low Life_. Jeff Spirer Axiom/Material www.hyperreal.com/axiom/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJOERN Subject: Frisell/Baron on DRS II Date: 14 Mar 1997 16:54:50 +0100 (MEZ) this one is for all folks in europe: tonite (friday) at 11 pm DRS II will play Frisell/Baron from Willisau `96... so if you are in switzerland , germany, austria or whereever check it out BJOERN ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: andy.marks@mts.com Subject: RE: Painkiller / Grindcore Date: 14 Mar 1997 11:11:44 On Fri, 14 Mar 1997 09:40:35 -0500 (EST) Anthony Saunders wrote: >love 'em both. Besides the Execution Ground 3xCD, are there any other >Painkiller cds? Painkiller like projects? (mix of jazz, grind, and >ambient, with out the somewhat goofy feel of naked city...) There's a live one, "Rituals: Live in Japan". Haino Keiji guests on a few tracks. I think this one is pretty hard to come by. I bought mine a few years ago and have never seen any since. You might want to check out "Sacrifist" by Praxis. This one features Buckethead, Laswell, maybe Mick Harris, Zorn, Bootsy Collins, Bernie Worrell, Blind Idiot God members, Eye. Not really grindcore, but pretty heavy duty stuff. However, there is a 8-9 minute Bootsy bass solo and a pretty extended keyboard work out at the end of the album. These two tracks kind of stand out from the others in that they are basically solos. Andrew Marks Software Engineer MTS-PowerTek, Inc. E-mail: andy.marks@mts.com Time: 11:11:44 AM Buckethead was raised in the chicken coop by chickens. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? Subject: Re: Sample Artists?! ((WAS: Re: Otomo) (was Burroughs)) Date: 14 Mar 1997 10:16:42 -0800 (PST) On Thu, 13 Mar 1997, Michael Howes wrote: > The Tape-beatles: Very much like Negativland...media samples..less humor > more pointed note that they've changed their name to Public Works. they have a web site too. http://soli.inav.net/~psrf/pworks.html > People Like Us: One of my favorites..a lighter Negativland with not such > harsh cuts. for silliness along the lines of People Like Us, definately check out Stock Hausen & Walkman. > Lastly on this list is a question. I have a release from a group that goes > buy "Peril". It's on a label our of Australia called "Dr Jim's". Otomo > Yoshihide is on it and it's great. Do these 4 have anything else out. as far as i know, they don't. Mason Jones of Charnel Music would know more about them. i think perhaps there is a review (with information) about them in the first issue of Ongaku Otaku. hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? Subject: Re: Painkiller / Grindcore Date: 14 Mar 1997 10:22:38 -0800 (PST) On Fri, 14 Mar 1997, Anthony Saunders wrote: > I'm especially interested in sax/bass/drum trios that blast beat. : ) check out the following Kevin Martin projects: 16-17 GOD also, other suggestions would be: Alboth! Last Exit Blind Idiot God hasta. onnow: Current 93 - HORSEY Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Sample Artists?! ((WAS: Re: Otomo) (was Burroughs)) Date: 14 Mar 1997 12:22:26 -0800 On Thu, 13 Mar 1997, Michael Howes wrote: > > Lastly on this list is a question. I have a release from a group that goes > buy "Peril". It's on a label our of Australia called "Dr Jim's". Otomo > Yoshihide is on it and it's great. Do these 4 have anything else out. List of what I know: 014 - PERIL: Peril 1/ Kiken (Otomo Yoshihide) 0:44 2/ Exchange Rate (Tony Buck) 4:36 3/ Gold (Tony Buck) 7:00 4/ Peril (Tony Buck) 2:26 5/ Lurch (Tony Buck) 4:28 6/ Accidently Hoddle St (Buck, Hideki) 4:07 7/ Rotor Syndrome (Peril) 4:46 8/ 50-144 (Tony Buck) 1:47 9/ Free-Rock (Peril) 3:28 10/ Left of Center (Tony Buck) 6:10 Tony Buck: drums, samples, machines; Kato Hideki: bass, voice; Otomo Yoshihide: turntables, guitar, tapes; Michael Sheridan: guitar. 1993 - Dr Jim's Records (Australia), DR JIM 7 (CD) 034 - MULTIVERSE: Peril 1/ Sheer Bloody Mindedness 1:04 2/ Hit Bit 0:52 3/ Snatch and Grab 1:59 4/ Jazz 1:26 5/ Illegal Alien 5:58 6/ Silent Masses 3:01 7/ 06 0:18 8/ Hit and Run 4:55 9/ Ascension 1:28 10/ Dancing on the Heads of the Scum of the Earth 1:58 11/ Darwin 0:21 12/ 07 0:28 13/ New Peril 5:39 14/ Michael Johnson 0:58 15/ Bern Baby, Bern 2:25 16/ 08 1:08 17/ Anger\Fun 0:32 18/ Dumb Drum Dub 0:35 19/ Regimental Anxiety 1:59 20/ Peppermint Lounge 1:29 21/ Aquamarine 4:55 Recorded and mixed at studio Boterdiep (Holland), July-October 1993 Tony Buck: drums, samples, machines, vocal; Otomo Yoshihide: turntables, guitar; Sheridan: guitar; Thierry Fosmale: bass. 1995 - Sound Factory (Hong Kong), SFCD 015 (CD) *** - ASTRO: Peril Note: not released yet (planned in December 1996). Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt Subject: Tunes Date: 14 Mar 1997 18:38:56 -0500 > I'm especially interested in sax/bass/drum trios that blast beat. : ) Check out Charles Gayle, or Peter Brotzmann might have some band out there with this instrumentation. My favorite album with Peter Brotzmann is Marylin Crispell/Peter Brotzmann/Hamid Drake-Hyperion. This is whacked out awesomeness. Check it out. I noticed someone mentioning Buckethead. I have an awesome album by Jonas Hellborg/Buckethead/Michael Shrieve called 'Octave of the Holy Innocents' which is incredible. Jonas Hellborg on acoustic bass guitar, Buckethead on acoustic guitar and Michael Shrieve on drums. This album absolutely shreds and would recommend it to anyone. -Tom Pratt ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Torsten Nielsen Subject: Live in China Date: 15 Mar 1997 12:51:02 +0100 (MET) Does anybody know what's happening with the Zorn/Eye "Live In China" box? I thought it was supposed to be released in January/February... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Howes Subject: Re: Sample Artists?! ((WAS: Re: Otomo) (was Burroughs)) Date: 15 Mar 1997 12:05:34 -0800 > >> People Like Us: One of my favorites..a lighter Negativland with not such >> harsh cuts. > >for silliness along the lines of People Like Us, >definately check out Stock Hausen & Walkman. > > I have the "Deconstruct" comp which has a couple tracks from them (as well as John Oswald, Christian Marclay, and others) but do Stock Hausen & Walkman have anything else out? mike mhowes@best.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey) Subject: Re: Painkiller / Grindcore Date: 15 Mar 1997 17:42:36 -0500 >On Fri, 14 Mar 1997, Anthony Saunders wrote: >>I'm especially interested in sax/bass/drum trios that blast beat. : ) Then, SUGAR in their vitamins? responded: >check out the following Kevin Martin projects: >16-17 Not to nitpick here, but 16-17 is _not_ a Kevin Martin project. 16-17 is a swiss jazz/noise/beat trio formed in the mid-80's by Alex Buess (the other members are Markus Kneubuhler & Knut Remond (of Voice Crack)). They have three full-lengths, the most recent & most well-known one being "Gyatso" (1994). This record was produced and released by Martin (on his now defunkt Pathological label) & features him on samples. This was his main involvement with the band. Other than this there has been the occasional guest appearance by Buess in Martin's projects including God & Ice. >GOD I second this recommendation. All of the God material is excellent, IMO. If you like Zorn, he's featured (alto sax) on three tracks of God's second album, "Possession". >also, other suggestions would be: >Alboth! I have to second this recommendation as well. Another amazing swiss band! A quartet of bass, drums, piano (played like percussion) and effects-laden voice. Their older material is more organic. Recent material includes samples & more electronics. >Last Exit >Blind Idiot God You might also try: Electric Noise Twist (another Alex Buess project, similar to 16-17) Bible Launcher (recent debut on Tzdik's Lunatic Fringe) Ground Zero (S/T & Null & Void) Peter Brotzmann Octet - "Machine Gun" Peter Brotzmann Tentet - "Marz Combo" Hession/Wilkinson/Fell (The Horrors Of Darmstadt &/or Foom! Foom!) Borbetomagus [this may be pushing it however, as there is no bass (except on a couple albums) or drums, but the wall of improv jazz/noise they create (2 sax players + guitar) is astounding] -Patrick ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? Subject: Re: Sample Artists?! ((WAS: Re: Otomo) (was Burroughs)) Date: 15 Mar 1997 16:13:29 -0800 (PST) On Sat, 15 Mar 1997, Michael Howes asks: > I have the "Deconstruct" comp which has a couple tracks from them (as well > as John Oswald, Christian Marclay, and others) but do Stock Hausen & > Walkman have anything else out? yes. they have at least five albums, mostly all self-released. off the top of my head: 1993 "Giving Up" CD 1994? "Gothic Land" LP + 7" 1995 "Hairballs" CD 1995 "Stop" CD i know there's at least one more, but i can't recall the title offhand. hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? Subject: Re: Painkiller / Grindcore Date: 15 Mar 1997 16:26:15 -0800 (PST) On Sat, 15 Mar 1997, Patrick Carey wrote: > Not to nitpick here, but 16-17 is _not_ a Kevin Martin project. thanks for the clarification. i only have "Gyatso" and the liner notes are sparse. > ... released by Martin (on his now defunkt Pathological label) so pathological is defunkt. what's the story behind this? > Electric Noise Twist (another Alex Buess project, similar to 16-17) can you tell more about this? discography, etc? > Bible Launcher (recent debut on Tzdik's Lunatic Fringe) has this been recalled or something? it's not listed on the Koch/Tzadik web page. and it was almost impossible to find! > Ground Zero (S/T & Null & Void) yes, i second this recommendation. > Peter Brotzmann Octet - "Machine Gun" > Peter Brotzmann Tentet - "Marz Combo" "Marz Combo" is good. so is "Rat Dried Dog" (Hamid Drake, Crispell and Broztmann) and "Die Like A Dog" (an Ayler tribute). and of course, let's not forget "Sacred Scrape/Secret Response". much of Brotzmann's works are well worth examining. > Borbetomagus [this may be pushing it however, don't forget "Barefoot In The Head", a collaboration between Sauter and Deitrich (Borb) and Thurston Moore. this is a really excellent album which has recently been re-issued. and if you like Borbetomagus, i would recommend Dislocation. they have two albums, "Peak to Peak" (PSF) and "Carve Another Notch". both are excellent. hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt Subject: simple correction Date: 15 Mar 1997 21:57:25 -0500 > "Rat Dried Dog" (Hamid Drake, Crispell and Broztmann) just a few simple corrections. The album is called 'Dried Rat Dog' and is a Peter Brotzmann (tenor sax, clarinets, tarogato and things) & Hamid Drake (drums, percussion) duets albums. Marylin Crispell (piano) is not on this one. -Tom Pratt ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "James L. Kirchmer" Subject: Re: Fred Chalenor Date: 15 Mar 1997 19:55:58 -0800 Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > On Tue, 11 Mar 1997 02:32:46 -0800 "James L. Kirchmer" wrote: > > just droppin' a note to say that Zony Mash's debut album, > > titled "Cold Spell", is out and it's HOT! (on knitting factory records). > > Wayne is on Hammond B3, Fred Chalenor is on bass, Tim Young on guitar, > > and Andy Roth on drums. > > Fred Chalenor(Pigpen/Hughscore/Freestyle Candela/etc.) is Seattle's > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Is it one of his Seattle projects? I never heard about this band before. Freestyle Candela is a Seattle-based soukous/rumba/highlife/blues/jazz influenced(among other influences) local band led by Leif Totusek on guitar. The current lineup of choice is Fred on bass, Denny Stern on percussion, Attey Nettey on congas, and Skerik(Critters Buggin') on tenor sax(if he is available, as he is very busy these days with Critters and soon with Tuatara(new project with Peter Buck(REM)) Jessica Lurie(from the Living Daylights and also the Billy Tipton Memorial Saxophone Quartet) also appears on sax occasionally... Anyways, Freestyle is an amazing "African funk" band, basically - and Leif Totusek is one BAD guitar player. Fred is excited to play with them, and a show they played on Valentine's Day(with Jessica) was a total dance party. Fred has not recorded with Freestyle yet but hopefully will this spring. Moreover, he has JUST started jamming with the band. It is a new development, and he is excited about developing his funky AfroCuban chops. He has fit in superbly (and quickly!) so things look promising..... Leif has played his brand of African-American jazz funk all over the world, as a former member of Mose Se Fan Fan's SOMO SOMO(London), and as a leader of bands in London, Boston, and now Seattle, his hometown... There's more to Seattle than grunge as you all probably have realized by now! (Now, if only Bill Frisell would play more around here.... ;) Ciao - james kirchmer p.s. - there is a new(BASIC!) website at - http://www.soukous.com/freestyle.html that offers a bit more information on the band. There is a CD available, but it does not feature Fred Chalenor on bass. Keith Lowe is on bass. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? Subject: Re: simple correction Date: 15 Mar 1997 21:10:40 -0800 (PST) On Sat, 15 Mar 1997, Tom Pratt wrote: > just a few simple corrections. The album is called 'Dried Rat Dog' and > is a Peter Brotzmann (tenor sax, clarinets, tarogato and things) & Hamid > Drake (drums, percussion) duets albums. Marylin Crispell (piano) is not > on this one. you're right. i'm thinking of "Hyperion" (Music & Arts). hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mool@sirius.com (Allan) Subject: Re: Painkiller / Grindcore Date: 16 Mar 1997 01:40:35 -0800 Anthony said he's looking for: >Painkiller like projects? (mix of jazz, grind, and >ambient, with out the somewhat goofy feel of naked city...) > I'm especially interested in sax/bass/drum trios that blast beat. : ) unfortunately, neither Drop Dead nor the Cripple Bastards have put out any records featuring saxophone, to my knowledge... Here's another suggestion (and I concur with most of what other folks have come up with, especially the 16/17, that may well be the closest to what Anthony desires): how about The Flying Luttenbachers --> Chicago "no-wave" jazzpunk combo that at first featured the saxophone of the late Hal Russell. Ken Vandermark has also appeared with them...on their latest release (on Skin Graft), I believe that the saxophone is handled by their (goofy? he's named Weasel Walter) drummer. and then there's a bunch of somewhat inter-related Japanese bands in the Naked City vein, goofy or not depending on your personal taste I suppose: Ground Zero (already mentioned by someone), P.O.N., Altered States, etc. There's even a Ruins cd (Early Works) that features the saxophone of Zorn on several tracks. ... it seems like there's a bunch of jazz/grind outfits, and some jazz/ambient/noise ones (Borbetomagus and Dislocation have been mentioned - and Dislocation does remind me a bit of some of Painkiller's _Execution Ground_), but not much grind/ambient or all threee... well, the last Burzum album could be considered grind/ambient, but not jazz. ...and somebody mentioned Hession/Wilkinson/Fell. That reminds me to mention Descension (featuring bassist Simon Fell, saxophonist Charles Wharf, and Tony Irving and Stephan Jaworzyn of Ascension) and Ascension. Ascension is a way intense British guitar/drums improv duo, Descension adds the aforementioned sax and double bass, and both groups have total rip-your-head-off discs out on Jaworzyn's Shock label. and oh yeah, how about Rudolph Grey's Blue Humans? That _Mask of Light_ record, anyway, with Rashied Ali & one of the Borbetomagus sax players (Jim Sauter), that kills, esp. the 35+ minute title track! lastly, there is (or was?) a band here in San Francisco called Topple (sax/electric bass/percussion/vocal manipulation) that do both all-out improv and also some very tight, composed material...any fan of Zorn/Painkiller I'm sure would dig them. whew, Allan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJOERN Subject: Lauren Newton Date: 16 Mar 1997 16:35:51 +0100 (MEZ) could please someone tell ma if there is a LN discography or biography on the net??????? BJOERN ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: herb@eskimo.com (Herb Levy) Subject: Sample Artists Date: 16 Mar 1997 08:40:17 -0800 Any review of the folks using samples in their work should include: Carl Stone, with CDs on New Albion, New Tone, Trigram (with Otomo Yoshihida), E:mit, and Nicolas Collins, with Ostertag, one of the first to use live real-time sampling in an improvised context. Herb Levy herb@eskimo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey) Subject: Re: Painkiller / Grindcore Date: 16 Mar 1997 17:04:59 -0500 >so pathological is defunct. what's the story behind this? There really isn't one. I mean, I am not 100% certain that Pathological is dead, but the last release was 16-17's "Gyatso" back in early 1994. Since then, Martin has been overly busy producing, recording & writing ... with all his projects [Techno Animal, God (I read somewhere that he's called it quits on this because of the # of people involved; it becomes very complicated to organize, record & tour together), EAR, The Sidewinder, Macro Dub Infection comps, Bug! plus the tons of other records he's worked on in the past few years] there just isn't time. But who's to say he won't revive it someday ... [Electric Noise Twist (another Alex Buess project, similar to 16-17)] >can you tell more about this? discography, etc? Well, there isn't much to tell. ENT consists of Buess [saxophones, drums, contrabassclarinet, 8-string bass] Markus Kneubuhler [bass, tapes, violin- controlled electronic devices, guitar, electronic percussion] and Christoph Fringeli [voices, guitars, drums, keyboards] and they have only one full length LP out which is self-titled (Vision 23). It was released in 1989 on Buess' (possibly also defunct) Vision label out of Switzerland. I believe there is a review of this LP in the EST Zine archives if you're interested. They are also featured on the Vision compilation CD (see below), ">Knock Out<", released in 1991 (Vision 35). Vision released a lot of electronic/beat-box/jazz-noise in the mid-late 80's/early 90's ... the compilation CD (1st & possibly only Vision CD, all previous releases were LPs/12"s) is a good sample of the sounds Vision was pushing. [Bible Launcher (recent debut on Tzdik's Lunatic Fringe)] >has this been recalled or something? it's not listed on the Koch/Tzadik >web page. and it was almost impossible to find! I'm not sure. I don't own it. I saw it used in a store recently (I was surprised since I didn't think it was out yet) and I gave it a listen. IMO, it wasn't that great, almost a grunge/metal/jazz sound (very rock oriented) with vocals that I didn't care much for. I've been impressed with other Tzadik releases, but this one seemed like something I would have been interested in 3 or 4 years back. Only my opinion of course ... I included it here because it does fit into the jazz-thrash area. [Ground Zero] >yes, i second this recommendation. Something that may be of interest here, since we're talking about 16-17 et al ... Otomo samples (well, plays the record on his turntable) 16-17's "Who Planned All This?" from their live LP, "When All Else Fails", on the S/T Ground Zero album. Check out track 13, "Euthanasia Drive", and listen for the pounding rapid drum lines/squealing in the background at the beginning & end of the track. [Peter Brotzmann] >"Marz Combo" is good. so is >"Rat Dried Dog" (Hamid Drake, Crispell and Broztmann) ** >and "Die Like A Dog" (an Ayler tribute). >and of course, let's not forget >"Sacred Scrape/Secret Response". >much of Brotzmann's works are >well worth examining. Agreed on all of these being excellent. Note (**) ... This one is titled "Dried Rat Dog" and does not feature Crispell. [Borbetomagus] >don't forget "Barefoot In The Head", >a collaboration between Sauter and Deitrich >(Borb) and Thurston Moore. this is a >really excellent album which has >recently been re-issued. Yes, excellent. Since the Shock version is long gone, and the first FE issue has disappeared, it's good to see a second re-issue. >and if you like Borbetomagus, i would recommend Dislocation. they >have two albums, "Peak to Peak" (PSF) and "Carve Another Notch". >both are excellent. Yes on these as well. Also, check out their recent "Coyote's Call" LP on Fusetron. Nice stuff! And while we're on the subject, don't forget Ascension, Descension, or Stefan Jaworzyn's recent improv. album on Incus w/ Alan Wilkinson. -Patrick ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Painkiller / Grindcore Date: 16 Mar 1997 17:06:00 -0800 On Sun, 16 Mar 1997 17:04:59 -0500 Patrick Carey wrote: > > [Bible Launcher (recent debut on Tzdik's Lunatic Fringe)] > > >has this been recalled or something? it's not listed on the Koch/Tzadik > >web page. and it was almost impossible to find! > > I'm not sure. I don't own it. I saw it used in a store recently (I was > surprised since I didn't think it was out yet) and I gave it a listen. > IMO, it wasn't that great, almost a grunge/metal/jazz sound (very rock > oriented) with vocals that I didn't care much for. I've been impressed with > other Tzadik releases, but this one seemed like something I would have been > interested in 3 or 4 years back. Only my opinion of course ... I included > it here because it does fit into the jazz-thrash area. The story is confusing. The record was supposed to be released on August 96. At the very last minute, to avoid problems with some of the samples (taken from preachers), the release was postponed, with the intent to release a watered down version (without the samples) later. Now, it seems that the decision to not release the record happened when the records were already in the hand of some stores (Tower, Borders). Net result? Even though the record was withdrawn at the last minute, you could, for a short period of time, find it at Tower and Borders. I bought my copy at Tower on August 25, and, surprisingly, I found a second one at the same store on... December 9!!!! My guess is that the story is more complicated than what I described... But that's the best I know right now. Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alan M Gordon (MSc/NC)" Subject: Re: Sample Artists?! ((WAS: Re: Otomo) (was Burroughs)) Date: 17 Mar 1997 12:01:58 GMT >>do Stock Hausen & >> Walkman have anything else out? >yes. they have at least five albums, >mostly all self-released. off >the top of my head: > >1993 "Giving Up" CD >1994? "Gothic Land" LP + 7" >1995 "Hairballs" CD >1995 "Stop" CD > >i know there's at least one more, >but i can't recall the title offhand. > I think it is "Organ Donors", an album of cut-ups of cheesy organ tracks. It's supposed to be one of their best. alan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chambest@cs.purdue.edu (Scott Chamberlin) Subject: Bible Launcher Date: 17 Mar 1997 15:44:20 GMT The Bible Launcher release was recalled last year, and was rereleased by tzadik in January. The one released in January is the legal, and available one. My opinion on Bible Launcher is that it is one of those CD's that you have to listen to 4 or 5 times untill you get a feel for it (like alot of Zorn's stuff) Now it is one of my favorite disks. The other release on the tzadik's Lunatic Fringe is Rodd Keith. I do not see why anyone would buy this CD. It is probally one of the worst CD's I have ever heard. Rodd Keith was some guy that took "Send us your lyric" submissions and wrote music for them. I would describe it as real flitty 60's music. But I guess if you like that kind of stuff . . .? scott chamberlin chambest@cs.purdue.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Bible Launcher Date: 17 Mar 1997 08:28:11 -0800 On Mon, 17 Mar 1997 15:44:20 GMT Scott Chamberlin wrote: > > The Bible Launcher release was recalled last year, and was rereleased ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Are you sure of that? > by tzadik in January. The one released in January is the legal, and > available one. I never heard about it being officially out. Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ssmith@knittingfactory.com (Steve Smith) Subject: Re: ATTN: S. Wilkie Date: 17 Mar 1997 11:36:11 -0500 >Michael Formanek "Nature of the Beast" enja ENJ-9308 2 1997. >[snip]...but if it's not out now, >I'm sure it'll be out soon. It's in stores on April 15. Steve ssmith@knittingfactory.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chambest@cs.purdue.edu (Scott Chamberlin) Subject: Bible Launcher Date: 17 Mar 1997 16:40:13 GMT Yeah, I think I origionally heard about the rerelease from someone on this list, and I ordered it from Blockbuster music in January and got it shortly after that, I also saw you could order it from CD now and a few other places on the web that sell Tzadik, but I just went to the CDnow site, and they didn't have it listed anymore, but I am sure at one point they did list it. Maybe it was recalled again? scott chamberlin chambest@cs.purdue.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ssmith@knittingfactory.com (Steve Smith) Subject: Re: Bible Launcher, New Tzadik catalog Date: 17 Mar 1997 12:32:29 -0500 >The Bible Launcher release was recalled last year, and was rereleased >by tzadik in January. The one released in January is the legal, and >available one. Are you sure about that? I just picked up the new 1997 Tzadik catalog yesterday and Bible Launcher does not appear at all... and this catalog is new enough to include details about such upcoming releases as the second Mike Patton disc "Pranzo Oltranzista" (presumably an April release) and Zorn's "New Traditions in East Asian Bar Bands" (ditto). Also listed as upcoming are the Serge Gainsbourg 2 CD set, new releases from Frith (not the film music disc) and Ostertag, and the following additions to the Archival Series: Cynical Hysterie Hour, Duras and Aprorias: Requia for Piano and Orchestra. And much more of course. But no mention whatsoever of Bible Launcher. And I couldn't help but smile when I saw the following description of the Burt Bacharach 2 CD tribute: "This incredible collection is essential listening to anybody interested in anything." But given the lineup, that is probably quite right: Wayne Horvitz, Marc Ribot, Dave Douglas, Guy Klucevsek, Kramer, Erik Friedlander, Joey Baron, Zeena Parkins, Fred Frith, Medeski Martin & Wood, Elliott Sharp, Marie McAuliffe, Mike Patton, Lloyd Cole, Robert Quine, Anthony Coleman, Yuka Honda, Sean Lennon, Shelley Hirsch, Bill Frisell. And finally, everybody should be able to find Derek Bailey's "Drums'n'Bass" CD as of tomorrow... Koch, the distributor of Tzadik and my former employer, is now carrying Avant as well. Steve Smith ssmith@knittingfactory.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJOERN Subject: Re: Bible Launcher, New Tzadik catalog Date: 17 Mar 1997 19:50:34 +0100 (MEZ) On Mon, 17 Mar 1997, Steve Smith wrote: > >The Bible Launcher release was recalled last year, and was rereleased > >by tzadik in January. The one released in January is the legal, and > >available one. > > Are you sure about that? I just picked up the new 1997 Tzadik catalog > yesterday and Bible Launcher does not appear at all... and this catalog is > new enough to include details about such upcoming releases as the second > Mike Patton disc "Pranzo Oltranzista" (presumably an April release) and > Zorn's "New Traditions in East Asian Bar Bands" (ditto). Also listed as > upcoming are the Serge Gainsbourg 2 CD set, new releases from Frith (not > the film music disc) and Ostertag, and the following additions to the > Archival Series: Cynical Hysterie Hour, Duras and Aprorias: Requia for > Piano and Orchestra. And much more of course. But no mention whatsoever > of Bible Launcher. > > And I couldn't help but smile when I saw the following description of the > Burt Bacharach 2 CD tribute: "This incredible collection is essential > listening to anybody interested in anything." But given the lineup, that > is probably quite right: Wayne Horvitz, Marc Ribot, Dave Douglas, Guy > Klucevsek, Kramer, Erik Friedlander, Joey Baron, Zeena Parkins, Fred Frith, > Medeski Martin & Wood, Elliott Sharp, Marie McAuliffe, Mike Patton, Lloyd > Cole, Robert Quine, Anthony Coleman, Yuka Honda, Sean Lennon, Shelley > Hirsch, Bill Frisell. > what is the name of the Bacharach CD????? Sean Lennon??? the son of John Lennon???? BJOERN ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJOERN Subject: tapes Date: 17 Mar 1997 19:51:52 +0100 (MEZ) anyone from near germany who likes to trade live tapes???? BJOERN ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? Subject: Re: Bible Launcher Date: 17 Mar 1997 11:01:58 -0800 (PST) On Mon, 17 Mar 1997, Scott Chamberlin wrote: > Yeah, I think I origionally heard about the rerelease from someone on > this list how does one tell the difference between this supposed "legal" re-release version vs. the previous recalled version? hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ssmith@knittingfactory.com (Steve Smith) Subject: Re: Bible Launcher, New Tzadik catalog Date: 17 Mar 1997 15:29:56 -0500 BJOERN wrote: >what is the name of the Bacharach CD????? Burt Bacharach - Great Jewish Music. (The Serge Gainsbourg tribute will similarly be called Serge Gainsbourg - Great Jewish Music.) >Sean Lennon??? the son of John Lennon???? Yes. Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt Subject: New Tzadik catalog Date: 17 Mar 1997 21:28:26 -0500 > And I couldn't help but smile when I saw the following description of the > Burt Bacharach 2 CD tribute: "This incredible collection is essential > listening to anybody interested in anything." But given the lineup, that > is probably quite right: Wayne Horvitz, Marc Ribot, Dave Douglas, Guy > Klucevsek, Kramer, Erik Friedlander, Joey Baron, Zeena Parkins, Fred Frith, > Medeski Martin & Wood, Elliott Sharp, Marie McAuliffe, Mike Patton, Lloyd > Cole, Robert Quine, Anthony Coleman, Yuka Honda, Sean Lennon, Shelley > Hirsch, Bill Frisell. When will this be released? -Tom Pratt ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton Subject: Re: Rodd Keith Date: 18 Mar 1997 00:05:04 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 17 Mar 1997, Scott Chamberlin wrote: > The other release on the tzadik's Lunatic Fringe is Rodd Keith. I do > not see why anyone would buy this CD. It is probally one of the worst > CD's I have ever heard. Rodd Keith was some guy that took > "Send us your lyric" submissions and wrote music for them. I would > describe it as real flitty 60's music. But I guess if you like that > kind of stuff . . .? The description of this struck me as intriguing, and I was thinking of checking it out, but now I dunno. Anyone hear this and not hate it? Chris Hamilton ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hywel davies Subject: swell Date: 18 Mar 1997 15:22:20 -0800 someone asked about steve swell?...he has a duo project out on cimp with chris kelsey (can't recall the title) does anyone know what mr. kelsey plays? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: garrow@webtv.net (Linda Highland) Subject: Re: Rodd Keith Date: 18 Mar 1997 10:46:46 -0500 I've only heard a little of Rodd keth proper, and found it fun...know many who love him. BUT those "send us your lyrics " records are GREAT! The "Smooth Music" comp is truly a thing of wonder and awe, with such gems and "A Convertible and a Headband Make the Scene', "JimmyCarter Says Yes," and other noteworthies.....Not "art", but a lot more interesting than most of what you hear on the radio... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Russell Subject: New Frith Disc Date: 18 Mar 1997 16:31:49 +0000 Dear all Just for information, I have just purchased the new Fred Frith Tzadik disc, Ear to Eye. It's part of Tzadik's Film Works series and features excerpts from several soundtracks composed by Frith. The music is a mixture of melodic compositions, moody soundscapes and some improvisation (I think). There's a small band and Frith plays his usual guitar and assorted manipulations. I found all the music highly entertaining. It's not a startling new direction but it will please fans and does feature some good,fractured guitar playing and a rattling guitar/organ duet. There seems to be a plethora of Tzadik new releases, I've also seen the Naked City Black Box, the new Mike Patton disc and another radical jewish culture disc. I'm waiting to see the Bacharach disc and the new Bob Ostertag one. Has anyone heard any of these new discs? I'd be interessted in any opinions. Scott Russell. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: andy.marks@mts.com Subject: Tzadik 1997 Catalog Date: 18 Mar 1997 11:56:55 Could somebody tell where I could find the Tzadik 1997 catalog online? Or could somebody who has it post it? The website at kochint.com hasn't been updated in a while. Andrew Marks Software Engineer MTS-PowerTek, Inc. E-mail: andy.marks@mts.com Time: 11:56:55 AM Buckethead was raised in the chicken coop by chickens. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: oger@worldnet.fr (Jacques Oger) Subject: Duck Baker Date: 18 Mar 1997 18:14:13 +0100 Does somebody know (maybe Patrice): who is Duck Baker ? I saw an information about a Tzadik release (playing Herbie Nichols). What is it? It sounds fine. Jacques ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Duck Baker Date: 18 Mar 1997 10:56:06 -0800 On Tue, 18 Mar 1997 18:14:13 +0100 Jacques Oger wrote: > > Does somebody know (maybe Patrice): > who is Duck Baker ? I saw an information about a Tzadik release (playing > Herbie Nichols). What is it? It sounds fine. From a previous post by Steve Smith: The full title is "Spinning Song - Duck Baker Plays the Music of Herbie Nichols." It's a solo guitar record and it's wonderful. Here are the tracks: 1. The Third World 4:03 2. The Happenings 4:34 3. Lady Sings the Blues 5:16 4. Nick at T's 4:46 5. House Party Starting 5:22 6. 2300 Skidoo 4:01 7. Portrait of Ucha 4:06 8. 134th St. 3:46 9. Spinning Song 4:47 It's a solo guitar record. Duck uses a selection of different guitars to suit the character of the individual pieces. He is a pretty stellar improviser of the John Fahey/Leo Kottke variety (as opposed to the Derek Bailey variety!). But Henry Kaiser and Jim O'Rourke say wonderful things about him, and evidently the idea of doing a solo Nichols album was Zorn's. The disc may seem terribly conservative to those who prefer the extreme, but it's lovely and well-recorded, and really reveals the architecture of these little bop gems. I especially like the woozy blues sliding around in "Lady Sings the Blues." Baker's notes are intelligent and informative, and reveal that he spent time with the great trombonist and Nichols champion Roswell Rudd, who told Baker a great deal about Nichols's life and circumstances, affecting the way Baker interpreted the tunes. "Knowning that Ucha was 'a really crazy lady' in Nichols' life that Herbie 'maybe never really got over' made a huge difference when approaching [Portrait of Ucha]. Even the instrument used - a miniature Mexican guitar with built-in acoustic distortion - was determined by having that information," Baker writes in his notes. He also acknowledges Bruce Ackley, Ben Goldberg and John Schott as having provided "charts and pointers." Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "J.Ross" Subject: new patton cd. Date: 18 Mar 1997 14:57:48 -0600 (CST) I don't know if it's out yet, But has anyone had a chance to listen to the new patton cd? If so could you send me a description of it? I bought adult themes when I came out last year....It's really cool but kind of hard to listen to.... muchas gracias J- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: treif@songlines.com (Tony Reif) Subject: address change/new releases/new distributor Date: 18 Mar 1997 15:05:58 +0000 Hello all, As of the end of March, mail for Songlines will no longer be received at the W. Broadway addresses you may have, and unfortunately it cannot be forwarded either but will be returned. The correct address now for all correspondence is: Tony Reif Songlines Recordings 1003 - 2323 W. 2nd Ave. Vancouver, B.C. V6K 1J4, Canada Tel (604) 737-1632 * fax 737-1678 e-mail: treif@songlines.com Songlines has two new releases available April 1st: Marty Ehrlich / Ben Goldberg, Light at the Crossroads (SGL 1511-2) Two master clarinettists with roots in jazz and new music, one based in New York and the other in San Francisco, join forces in a fine and varied program of original compositions for clarinets and/or bass clarinets. Their swinging quartet is completed by longtime Goldberg collaborators Trevor Dunn (bass) and Kenny Wollesen (drums). 20-bit recording. Andy Laster, Interpretations of Lessness (SGL 1515-2) A suite inspired by Samuel Beckett's short prose work, featuring Laster (baritone and alto sax), Erik Friedlander (cello), Cuong Vu (trumpet), and Kenny Wollesen (drums/percussion). Laster establishes a unique and strangely appealing sound world, capturing something of Beckett's rhythms, colors, sadness, and obtuse, oddly-vaudevillian humor. 20-bit recording. These can be ordered direct from Songlines (email me for a complete catalog and inquire about our special offer), or by credit card from our exclusive US/Canadian distributor Allegro at 1 800 288 2007. Tony Reif (Songlines Recordings) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim McLoughlin Subject: Herbie Nichols Date: 18 Mar 1997 22:07:03 -0500 (EST) Hello Everybody I had some Herbie Nichols related questions after the recent post about Duck Baker's (sorry if the name's wrong) solo guitar album. It was mentioned that Zorn proposed the project, and that Ben Goldberg and John Schott gave some pointers. I heard a tape of a live show (don't know the date) that had Zorn, John Schott, Ben Goldberg, Richard Saunders (bass), and Kenny Wolleson playing Nichol's compositions. I believe it was Ben Goldberg's project as he was announcing the show. SOOO, my question is if there has been studio work by this lineup. I thought I heard one of the tunes on a jazz radio program recently, except without Zorn. Is it possible Goldberg put out a CD of this stuff? Or is part of the Junk Genius CD on the Knitting Factory label? The arrangements of Nichols' music I heard were very good, and Zorn tore it up. A nice blend of groove and out-there/deconstructedness. Any info regarding the above, including a date of that show, would be appreciated. Jim -- Jim McLoughlin jm8w@virginia.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cmatsumo@cmp.com (Matsumoto Craig) Subject: Human Feel review Date: 19 Mar 1997 01:42:44 -0500 Seeing as the band Human Feel got some ink on this list earlier ... This is from the February 1997 issue of M3, or "Modern Musician Monthly," which publishes out of Freehold, N.J. and apparently focuses on independent-label music (it's a mag about the music biz for struggling musicians). I picked it up free at the Knitting Factory. Anyway, Human Feel's latest CD makes M3's "Top Two of the Month." Here's the review, copyright 1997 by C.P.I., reproduced without permission. Written by Rob Levit. "Brooklyn-based collective Human Feel makes an excellent and provocative Songlines debut with _Speak to It_. The music is simply beyond category, but could be adequately described as contemporary improvisation, a punk aesthetic wedded to the stylistic influences of modern chamber music, Albert Ayler, Ornette Coleman, and Eastern European sensibilities. The amazing thing is that they sound like none of the above. They synthesize all of those influences to create a sound of their own. How do they achieve this? For starters, percussionist Jim Black and reedmen Andrew D'Angelo and Chris Speed have strong ties to Seattle where they grew up playing music. Guitarist Kurt Rosenwinkel joined the group in Boston and four CDs later, they continue to explore the outer limits of "jazz." "_Speak To It_ offers a virtual compendium of their advanced techniques. Speed's "Darker Joys" is a two-and-a-half minute thrash featuring two competing riffs that grow, then collide with each other. D'Angelo's "Spaze" is a through-composed chamber piece that features a stunning mix of distorted guitar with saxophone. Black's "Tic, Tics" reminds me of the openness of Ornette's ballads; somber, but sounding almost like an old spiritual. On previous Human Feel recordings, Rosenwinkel contributed to the compositions. It's ironic that he is left off the compositional roster, because his guitar is indispensable to each track. For the first time on a Human Feel disc, his sound is well-recorded and equal to the reeds in terms of function. "The Mal Waldron tune that features vocalist Holly Palmer, unfortunately, doesn't quite work. A fine vocalist recently signed to Reprise, Palmer's breathy, atmospheric approach seems a little out of place here." .. Levit goes on to discuss how only independent labels like Songlines release this kind of music, and he urges us all to support such labels. I figured this list didn't need the prodding. :) Levit also gives Songlines' phone number as (604) 737-1632. I haven't picked up _Speak To It_ yet, but I've got _Welcome to Malpesta_, which i discovered through the Black/Speed connection with Tim Berne's Bloodcount. I really like Jim Black's work - quick and deftly packed drum flurries that add a lot of meat to the music. That's about it ... i just thought it was neat to see a real live Human Feel review. -- Craig Matsumoto cmatsumo@eet.cmp.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: flamerik@best.ms.philips.com Subject: Mike Patton: Pranzo Oltranzista Date: 19 Mar 1997 08:50:36 --100 Well, I was surprised to find the new Mike Patton album in the store yesterday, since it was slated for April release. Its full title is "Pranzo Oltranzista: Musica da Tavola per Cinque (Banquet Music for five Players)". It consists of 11 tracks, or parts if you wish. The whole 31:52 piece is inspired by Marinetti's 1932 Futurist Cookbook "La Cucina Futurista". The tracks 1. Elettricita atmospheriche candite 1:19 2. Carne cruda squarciata dal suono di sassofono 2:32 3. Vivanda in scodella 3:15 4. Guerrainletto 1:51 5. Contorno tattile (per russolo) 2:01 6. I rumori nutrienti 4:26 7. Garofani allo spiedo 2:56 8. Aerovivanda 2:33 9. Scoppioingola 3:00 10. Latta alle luce verde 3:24 11. Bombe a mano 4:00 The players Erik Friedlander: cello Mike Patton: voice, sound effects Marc Ribot: guitar William Winant: percussion John Zorn: alto saxophone The music is totally different from the first Patton album. There's hardly any vocals, and the atmosphere is mostly very laid back, although eerie. (2) reminds me of the music that is played in the background in restaurants, although it is interrupted by blasts of noise and squeaking saxophone. I am reminded of Zorn's Rebird at quite a few places. (6) features some very typical saxophone playing by Zorn, a bit like his playing on The Sicilian Clan, over an Eraserhead-like background. Each track is accompanied by a nice futurist recipe. An example for track (5): "Undresses lettuce leaves, dates and grapes eaten from a bowl with right hand (no fork). Left hand turns crank of a 'sound box' which emits geometrical sounds and rhythms." In my opinion, Mike Patton establishes himself as an excellent composer with this album. Those who were scared off by his first offering can rest assured that this one is completely different, and actually a pleasure to the ears. I was also told that Filmworks IV and Masada IV "Dalet" are coming soon... Frankco. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJOERN Subject: Patton Date: 19 Mar 1997 13:40:18 +0100 (MEZ) I bought the new Patton CD yesterday and i really have to say that its really great.... it has nothin to do with Adult themes... its more instrumental... the line-up is: Erik Friedlander - cello Mike Patton - voice , sound effects John Zorn - alto William Winant - perc. Marc Ribot - guitar there is not too much voice on the CD... th CD is about eatin in general... so Patton does a lot of sounds that have sth to do with eatin ..like chewin etc... it is really a very good CD so check it out BJOERN ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Risser Subject: Re: Samples (Otomo (was Burroughs)) Date: 19 Mar 1997 08:25:40 -0500 -- [ From: Peter Risser * EMC.Ver #2.5.03 ] -- Actually Negativland has a history stretching far beyond the U2 scandal. They were one of the best cut and paste artists of all time. Big 10-8 place is genius and Helter Stupid is amazing. Also Nicolas Collins does real-time sampling, as evidenced on his "100 of the World's Most Beautiful Melodies" album. Also a guy called Noah Creshevsky, who has released stuff only on Opus One records, as far as I know, does great sample work. Just another 2 cents. -- ===================== Group 42, Inc. www.group42.com (513) 831-3400 ===================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "M.Ho" Subject: Bloodcount cancelled Date: 19 Mar 1997 10:09:58 EST Anyone thinking that the Bloodcount show in Richmond, VA is supposed to go on tonight, you've been lied to. It was actually supposed to happen last night but there was all this promo mix up and wrong dates being advertised that the show eventually was cancelled. So those that I know were planning on coming in from out of town--DON'T. He will, however, be in Baltimore tonight. _Mary ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott T Chamberlin Subject: Patton release Date: 19 Mar 1997 10:28:45 -0500 (EST) Does the new Patton release reseble 'elegy' in any way. It seems to look like a similar type of 'modern chamber' set up. scott chamberlin chambest@cs.purdue.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Anthony Saunders Subject: Re: Painkiller / Grindcore Date: 19 Mar 1997 19:54:01 -0500 (EST) On Sun, 16 Mar 1997, Allan wrote: > Anthony said he's looking for: > >Painkiller like projects? (mix of jazz, grind, and > >ambient, with out the somewhat goofy feel of naked city...) > > I'm especially interested in sax/bass/drum trios that blast beat. : ) > > unfortunately, neither Drop Dead nor the Cripple Bastards have put out any > records featuring saxophone, to my knowledge... Well, thats why I was looking for jazzgrind stuff. I ve got a pretty good collection of Dropdead, Capitalist Casualties, Man Is The Bastard (two bass guitar jazz punk, very brutal), spazz, early Napalm Death, Sore Throat, Agathocles, etc. I am fully entrenched in the NY punk scene, and have been collecting grind records for the last five or six years... All of the bands/projects so far suggested are being checked out, as fast as I can (which is pretty slow, actually) > Here's another suggestion (and I concur with most of what other folks have > come up with, especially the 16/17, that may well be the closest to what > Anthony desires): > > how about The Flying Luttenbachers --> Chicago "no-wave" jazzpunk > combo that at first featured the saxophone of the late Hal Russell. Ken > Vandermark has also appeared with them...on their latest release (on Skin > Graft), I believe that the saxophone is handled by their (goofy? he's named > Weasel Walter) drummer. > > and then there's a bunch of somewhat inter-related Japanese bands in the > Naked City vein, goofy or not depending on your personal taste I suppose: > Ground Zero (already mentioned by someone), P.O.N., Altered States, etc. > There's even a Ruins cd (Early Works) that features the saxophone of Zorn > on several tracks. > > ... > it seems like there's a bunch of jazz/grind outfits, and some > jazz/ambient/noise ones (Borbetomagus and Dislocation have been mentioned - > and Dislocation does remind me a bit of some of Painkiller's _Execution > Ground_), but not much grind/ambient or all threee... > > well, the last Burzum album could be considered grind/ambient, > but not jazz. Yeah, but the guy (count grishnak) is a self admitted Fascist scumbag. Thats the problem with Black Metal, I never buy any of it because I am unwilling to accidently support nazi bullshit. But the music that I have heard is pretty good. Oh yeah, anyone interested in experimental grind should check out the Human Remains cdep - Using Sickness As A Hero - on Relapse. Its got almost perfect songwriting, with incredible musicianship from the players. seven string guitars, and the fastest and most skilled drummer in the grind scene today. Its got some really nuts stuff on it, absolutely the best thing Relapse has ever released. Oh yeah, both Agathocles (from Belgium) and Cripple Bastards (from Italy) are planning USA tours soon. If anyone is interested, I will keep you posted. anthony ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: a rancid amoeba Subject: Re: Painkiller / Grindcore Date: 19 Mar 1997 18:29:04 -0800 (PST) > > > > well, the last Burzum album could be considered grind/ambient, > > but not jazz. > > Yeah, but the guy (count grishnak) is a self admitted Fascist scumbag. > Thats the problem with Black Metal, I never buy any of it because I am > unwilling to accidently support nazi bullshit. But the music that I have > heard is pretty good. I happened to buy a CD by a band called Abruptum that I describe as "free black metal". I know very little about them so I have no idea if any of their other albums are anything like the one I got. The one I have is black metal style guitar, vocals and drums but seems to be entirely improvised and both tracks are 20+ minutes long. Every single time I've ever played it over the air another DJ or a listener has asked me about it--it's totally unlike anything else. The CD sleeve artwork (on the outside) is all solid black and nothing else-- no band name, no catalog number, nothing. I think the name of the CD is Obscuritatem Advoco Amplectere Me but I don't remember for sure. chanel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gary M. Gettier" Subject: Re: Painkiller / Grindcore Date: 20 Mar 1997 19:14:20 -0500 (EST) Speaking of Painkiller, I've got some extra copies of their stuff for trade. Let me know if you've got some good trades: Painkiller - Guts Of A Virgin (Censored cover - I finally found the Toy Factory one!) Painkiller - Buried Secrets Other stuff - Mystic Fugu Orchestra (Zorn/Eye) - Zohar Mr Bungle - Mr Bungle (extra copy) Mr Bungle - Disco Volante (extra copy) I'd like to get the 3 CD _Execution Ground_ and one of the Masadas. I've got a list of metal stuff a mile long I'd like to get. Email me for a list. p.s. Hello to Chanel and Mike, miss ya on the metal list! Gary Gary M. Gettier - gmg@ari.net | "Think for yourself and feel the walls | become sand beneath your feet." ! Don't Buy CDs at Wal-Mart ! | - Queensryche ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Risser Subject: Baron Crackshot Date: 21 Mar 1997 12:43:30 -0500 -- [ From: Peter Risser * EMC.Ver #2.5.03 ] -- I went to purchase Joey Baron's Crackshot album and found out it was on Avant for 22 bucks. Is there a non-import version of this album out? Like, say, Tzadik or something? Anyone? Second, any news on the 3CD release of Painkiller's Execution Ground on Tzadik? -- ===================== Group 42, Inc. www.group42.com (513) 831-3400 ===================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE Subject: uk tours Date: 21 Mar 1997 11:21:33 GMT0BST for those in the UK...tim berne is over in may (london, purcell room 24th...birmingham,custard factory 30 and 31st )..also dave douglas is at the custard factory, 26 april - see you there! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Caulfield Bivins Subject: new Tzadiks Date: 21 Mar 1997 14:47:01 -0500 (EST) Has anyone checked out the new Frith and Sharp discs on Tzadik? I imagine someone must have done so -- I only had the cash for two of the recent (and huge) batch, and I chose "Filmworks III" and the Ribot. I haven't really absorbed either of them fully, but I'm really impressed with Ribot's record so far. It's leagues better than "Shrek" (to my ears), and it really helps to see where he's coming from insofar as he successfully synthesizes a number of his influences. As if the Ayler covers on previous discs weren't hint enough, his approach really seems to owe quite a bit to Ayler -- in his dismantling of phrases, his off-center articulation, etc. By the way, for those interested there are 3 intriguing releases next month: Michael Formanek's "Nature of the Beast" Dave Douglas' Tiny Bell Trio "Live in Europe" Bill Frisell "Nashville" (!!) Jason Bivins ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JoLaMaSoul@aol.com Subject: Ellery Eskelin Trio(w/Andrea Parkins & Jim Black)@ICA, Boston Date: 21 Mar 1997 17:11:10 -0500 (EST) SUNDAY, APRIL 13th, 8 PM @ the Institute for Contemporary Art 955 Boylston Street, Boston, MA 02115 The Boston Creative Music Alliance Presents: tenor saxophonist & composer ELLERY ESKELIN with Andrea Parkins (accordian and sampler) and Jim Black (drums) "...Eskelin continues to be the most inventive American tenor player in creative music..." (Down Beat, November 1996) "...One of the most stimulating bands of the decade...Jazz Trash remains one of the unsung treasures of recent creative music troves." (John Corbett) Tickets go on sale Friday, March 28th @ Twisted Village Records (12 Elliott Street-near Harvard Square, Cambridge, MA 02138 ph (617) 354-6898 fax (617) 354-6899) Stay Tuned: for more info regarding BCMA's May 21st production of Charlie Kolhase Quintet @ The ICA! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: new Tzadiks Date: 21 Mar 1997 16:39:18 -0800 Jason Bivins writes: >Has anyone checked out the new Frith and Sharp discs on Tzadik? I imagine >someone must have done so -- I only had the cash for two of the recent I got them both yesterday, I too only had cash for 2. They're both great, IMHO. The Sharp disc is probably the biggest surprise, it has some of the most conventionally beautiful music I've heard him do. One piece, a solo on what I'm guessing is one of his stringed homemades played with e-bow, sounds a lot like traditional Korean music. Another piece is a simple, John Fahey-esque slide blues. The Frith disc is also very nice, some pieces harken back to his Henry Cow/European folk phases, which I quite enjoy, others are more improv/texture oriented. One piece, a duet with organist Willy Webster, goes on a bit too long, but I like the rest of the disc quite a bit. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hywel davies Subject: masada 4 Date: 22 Mar 1997 12:25:19 -0800 i've stopped caring whether you believe me or not, but masada 4(diw 923) is out in the UK, i have it - it exists! (full price though...) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt Subject: Re: masada 4 Date: 22 Mar 1997 09:54:10 -0500 hywel davies wrote: > > i've stopped caring whether you believe me or not, but masada 4(diw 923) > is out in the UK, i have it - it exists! (full price though...) Yes it does. I'm getting a tape of it from someone in Tokyo. -Tom Pratt ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: masada 4 Date: 22 Mar 1997 09:28:35 -0800 On Sat, 22 Mar 1997 12:25:19 -0800 hywel davies wrote: > > i've stopped caring whether you believe me or not, but masada 4(diw 923) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Why are you saying that? There have been so many rumors about this record that we became a little bit suspicious. Even an add in a respected magazine was not enough :-). > is out in the UK, i have it - it exists! (full price though...) That's an excellent news! Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: masada 4 Date: 22 Mar 1997 09:31:14 -0800 On Sat, 22 Mar 1997 09:28:35 -0800 "Patrice L. Roussel" wrote: > > > On Sat, 22 Mar 1997 12:25:19 -0800 hywel davies wrote: > > > > i've stopped caring whether you believe me or not, but masada 4(diw 923) > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > Why are you saying that? There have been so many rumors about this > record that we became a little bit suspicious. Even an add in a > respected magazine was not enough :-). > > > is out in the UK, i have it - it exists! (full price though...) > > That's an excellent news! Also, it seems that the catalog number is different. Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: martinj@SONOMA.EDU Date: 22 Mar 1997 12:20:04 -0800 (PST) have filmworks 3 & 4 been released yet? I heard they were out, but I wanted to make sure. j ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jan-Wen Lu Subject: New CD on Avant Date: 23 Mar 1997 10:53:08 +0800 Does anyone have idea with the latest CD on Avant, Alva-"Fair-Haired Guillotine"(AVAN-072, released on Feb. 21)? A female trio from Florida. They use violin, saxophone and piano. Concerning the Masada 4 CD on DIW. It was released on Feb. 21, too. It costs 1800 Japanese Yen. Not full price. -- Jan-Wen Lu E-Mail address: janwenlu@asiaonline.net.tw ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Torsten Nielsen Subject: Concerts in London Date: 23 Mar 1997 14:47:36 +0100 (MET) Does anybody know of any interesting concerts in London, April 4 or 5? Thanks, Jonas ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Torsten Nielsen Subject: Concerts in London Date: 23 Mar 1997 15:50:08 +0100 (MET) Does anybody know of any interesting concerts in London, April 4 or 5? Thanks, Jonas ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt Subject: DAT traders Date: 24 Mar 1997 07:25:33 -0500 Are there any DAT traders out there who trade Jazz/Avant stuff? PLEASE CONTACT ME! -Tom Pratt ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: schneide@augsburg.edu (Eric Schneider) Subject: filmworks Date: 24 Mar 1997 08:35:09 -0600 Could anyone provide general impressions and/or ratings of each one of Zorn's Filmworks collections? I'm familiar with a lot of Zorn's projects and compositions, but I have yet to approach this series. Any pointers would be helpful. Thanks. - Eric ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: flamerik@best.ms.philips.com Subject: Re: filmworks Date: 25 Mar 1997 08:47:21 +0100 > Could anyone provide general impressions and/or ratings of each one of > Zorn's Filmworks collections? I'm familiar with a lot of Zorn's projects > and compositions, but I have yet to approach this series. Any pointers > would be helpful. Thanks. Although I like all or most of the Filmworks series, I must say that I like the recently released fourth instalment the best. It features some of Zorn's best work, not only in the Filmworks series, but on the whole. There are five tracks, each with a very different character and feel. The first track, Pueblo (9:04), is a track that prominently features guitarists Marc Ribot and Robert Quine. It is very laid back, sort of a Mesoamerican atmosphere. It reminds me of the song the band is playing during Santanico Demonia's dance in From Dusk Till Dawn. The second track, Elegant Spanking (14:22) is a suite culled from a 27 minute composition of the same name. The line-up and instrumentation for this one is the same as on Zorn's masterpiece Redbird. The feeling is the same, too. Reminds me of the softer parts of Grand Guignol. I can't relate the music to the S/M scenes depicted in the booklet, however, since there is absolutely no harshness in the piece. The third track is a wicked sound design with harsh, almost Merzbow-like parts interrupting dark ambient sounds that once again remind me of Grand Guignol. The fourth piece is a 6:19 piece for solo piano. Well-crafted, and very beautiful. The fifth piece, Lot Of Fun For The Evil One (17:48), has Zorn playing keyboards over some strange ethnic music and voice samples from Aleister Crowley talking in some kind of esoteric language. The atmosphere of the individual pieces and the album as a whole is such that I would say this is one of my favorite Zorn albums. To give you an indication, my other favorites are Redbird, Grand Guignol, and The Big Gundown. I would also recommend Filmworks III, it has some very good Film Noir Masada tracks, as well as great improvisations between Marc Ribot and Zorn. Frankco. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ssmith@knittingfactory.com (Steve Smith) Subject: New Zorn events at the Knit Date: 25 Mar 1997 12:19:56 -0500 Hi all - Mark your calendars for these upcoming Zorn events: Saturday March 29 - John Zorn & Susie Ibarra Duo, Cyro Baptista's Testa de Farinha Sunday March 30 - The Flux String Quartet plays Zorn ("Cat O'Nine Tails"), Ornette Coleman ("Poets and Writers"), Gyorgy Ligeti (String Quartet No. 2) and Michael Ratte ("Sept B"). Tuesday May 13 - John Zorn and Eugene Chadbourne, Roger Turner and Phil Minton, and Eugene Chadbourne solo Thursday May 16-Sunday May 18 - Bar Kokhba (2 shows nightly) Tuesday May 20 - Larry Ochs, John Zorn and Dave Douglas Remember, those of you not in New York can at least hear and "see" these shows live on the internet on our website, free of charge naturally. Steve Smith ssmith@knittingfactory.com http://www.knittingfactory.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: xander@sirius.com Subject: Re: filmworks... Ikue Mori Date: 25 Mar 1997 10:52:28 -0800 Thanks to Frankco for the great rundown on Film Works IV, which made it sound like III would be more my speed (being less of a Grand Guignol fan myself, and more of a Ribot/Masada fan, but never mind that). >The first track, Pueblo (9:04), is a track that prominently features guitarists >Marc Ribot and Robert Quine. It is very laid back, sort of a Mesoamerican >atmosphere. It reminds me of the song the band is playing during Santanico >Demonia's dance in From Dusk Till Dawn. Don't know about the film in question, but this description sounds similar to Ikue Mori's "Painted Desert" which I like like a lot. Said record also features Ribot and Quine, and might be described as somewhat slowed down, spaced out spaghetti western music, though it does pick up (as you would expect) on tracks with titles like "Desperado". Reminds me a bit of early Durutti Column as well, if that rings bells for anyone. Alexander ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" Subject: cyro Date: 25 Mar 1997 14:52:54 -0500 (EST) What does Cyro Baptista do when not playing on John Zorn albums? COuld someone tell me about his other projects, and give reviews or general impressions? thanks, jascha ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Russell Subject: Virus Date: 26 Mar 1997 19:33:59 +0000 Dear all The following message has been passed to me via the internet. It originally came from IBM. Please read this message. If anyone, receives mail entitled: PENPAL GREETINGS! please delete it WITHOUT reading it!! This is a warning for all internet users. There is a dangerous virus propagating across the Internet through an e-mail message entitled "PENPAL GREETINGS"! DO NOT DOWNLOAD ANY MESSAGE ENTITLED "PENPAL GREETINGS"!! This message appears to be a friendly letter asking you if you are interested in a penpal, but by the time you read this letter, it is too late. The "trojan horse" virus will have already infected the boot sector of your hard drive, destroying all of the data present. It is a self-replicating virus, and once the message is read, it will AUTOMATICALLY forward itself to anyone who's e-mail address is present in YOUR mailbox! This virus will DESTROY your hard drive, and holds the potential to DESTROY the hard drive of anyone whose mail is in your in box, and who's mail is in their in box and so on. If this virus keeps getting passed, it has the potentioal to do a gread deal of DAMAGE to computer networks worldwide!!! Please, delete the message entitled "PENPAL GREETINGS!" as soon as you see it! And pass this message along to all of your friends, relatives and the other readers of the newsgroups and mailing lists which you are on so that they are not hurt by this dangerous virus!!! Please pass this along to everyone you know so this can be stopped. Hope none of you encounter this. Scott Russell. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim McLoughlin Subject: virus stuff Date: 26 Mar 1997 15:32:54 -0500 (EST) Hi The penpal greetings virus is a hoax. If you ever get mailed virus messages, it is worth checking their valididty at the following site before propogating these rumors: www.symantec.com/avcenter/hoax.html They maintain a list of virus hoaxes, which includes the PENPAL virus. There are no viruses that are able to do the damage described in that message. Sorry for lack of zorn/music related content. -- Jim McLoughlin jm8w@virginia.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: TRADITIONS IN EAST ASIAN BAR BANDS available? Date: 26 Mar 1997 13:57:53 -0800 I don't know about anywhere else, but TIEABB is not available in Portland (OR). Was anybody successful to get it? Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JoLaMaSoul@aol.com Subject: Dim Sum Clip Job (on "Avant") appear with Joe Maneri,Prelapse,Saturnalia Date: 26 Mar 1997 17:41:20 -0500 (EST) Wednesday, April 9th @ The Middle East, Upstairs 472 Massachusetts Ave. Cambridge, MA 02139 (617) 492-9181 Unsound Music Productions presents: Avant Recording Artists Dim Sum Clip Job with Joe Maneri (solo), Prelapse (featuring original compositions and the music of John Zorn's Naked City) and Jonathan LaMaster's Saturnalia Hailing from NYC, Dim Sum Clip Job inhabit a soundscape somewhere between Godzilla movies, the noise stylings and stage energy of The Boredoms, and the groove of a Hammond B3...without the B3! The band features Laura Cromwell on drums (Laura has also played with Bowery Electric, Cibo Mato, Buffalo Daughter, No Safety, and in performances of the John Zorn games "Cobra" and "Xeu Feng"), Gordon Knauer on alto saxophone (Gordon has played with Anthony Coleman and members of Soul Coughing), Curtis Hasselbring on guitar (Curtis is also a jazz trombonist and has worked with Benny Carter), and Jay Brown on bass. "Dim Sum Clip Job do set a standard for any ragged chord-crush instrumental ensemble to come... If you shotgun tripple espressos in a cold shower when you woke up, would you ever go back to sleep again?" (Jonathan Dixon, Soundviews) Since there are four acts on the bill, the show will start promptly at 9pm wit h the following order: 9pm: Joe Maneri 9:45: Saturnalia 10:30: Dim Sum Clip Job 11:45: Prelapse ALSO, Come see Saturnalia on Saturday, April 5th appearing at a great loft party with TWO stages in Chinatown (115 Kingston Street, Boston) at 6 pm on the nose. Also appearing (on the main stage) will be Cul de Sac, Bardo Pond, Primordial Undermind, Juneau, Lockroove Lullaby, Abunai, and Christmas Ape. On the side stage will be The Harvard Project for New Music folks, and Lothars (theremin ensemble who will be the side stage "house band".) BYOWhatever! Contact Ditko Universe Productions @ 617-254-4151 for info. webinfo: http://www.tiac.net/users/cutter Jonathan LaMaster Unsound Music Productions ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian & Sharon Beuchaw Subject: Re: TRADITIONS IN EAST ASIAN BAR BANDS available? Date: 26 Mar 1997 17:03:20 -0600 (CST) On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > I don't know about anywhere else, but TIEABB is not > available in Portland (OR). Was anybody successful to get it? > > Patrice. I haven't seen it in Chicago and checked CDNow and they've got it listed as coming out at the end of April (I think). cya brian ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: flamerik@best.ms.philips.com Subject: CV: Re: TRADITIONS IN EAST ASIAN BAR BANDS available? Date: 27 Mar 1997 10:10:53 +0100 > > I don't know about anywhere else, but TIEABB is not > > available in Portland (OR). Was anybody successful to get it? > > > > Patrice. > > I haven't seen it in Chicago and checked CDNow and they've got it listed > as coming out at the end of April (I think). > It is out in Europe, although I failed to order it. Seems that the whole batch of Tzadik releases has seen the light of day earlier in Europe than it has in America. Frankco. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE Subject: eremite Date: 27 Mar 1997 09:51:58 GMT0BST does anyone know the address for/ distributor of the "eremite"cd label: there's a disc by eskelin/a. parkins and a new one by greg bendian (with mark dresser)-a tribute to Gentle Giant (?!!). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jamie Uhrmacher Subject: 100 cd set Date: 27 Mar 1997 09:15:09 -0500 I apologize in advance if this question has been asked already, but I'm new to this list. Anyways, can ANYONE tell me where I can order the Zorn/Eye 100 disc set? Is it available for pre-order yet? Any help would be greatly appreciated, I DO NOT want to miss out on this collection. Jamie ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: eremite Date: 27 Mar 1997 08:06:44 -0800 On Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:51:58 GMT0BST DR S WILKIE wrote: > > does anyone know the address for/ distributor of the "eremite"cd > label: there's a disc by eskelin/a. parkins and a new one by greg > bendian (with mark dresser)-a tribute to Gentle Giant (?!!). Eremite Records PO Box 812 Northampton, MA 01061 Tel: (413) 584-9592 Fax: (413) 586-2542 e-mail: eremite@javanet.com owner: Michael Ehlers ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: 100 cd set Date: 27 Mar 1997 08:09:11 -0800 On Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:15:09 -0500 Jamie Uhrmacher wrote: > > I apologize in advance if this question has been asked already, but I'm > new to this list. Anyways, can ANYONE tell me where I can order the > Zorn/Eye 100 disc set? Is it available for pre-order yet? Any help > would be greatly appreciated, I DO NOT want to miss out on this > collection. Not out. The project keeps on being postponed. Last I heard, it was supposed to be out this spring (for the optimists), or this fall (for the pessimists). Personally, I would prefer this thing to be never released... Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Russell Subject: Cds for exchange Date: 28 Mar 1997 20:41:04 +0000 Dear all I have a couple of discs for exchange if anyone is interested. They are; Bloodbath (feat Jon King and Otomo Yoshihide) and Shrek by Marc Ribot If anyone wants either of these I'd be interested in any Zorn related product. i.e. Zorn discs, Tzadik or Avant discs. Contact me for further info. Scott Russell ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt Subject: Ellery Eskelin Date: 28 Mar 1997 18:56:36 -0500 Are there any Ellery Eskelin fans out there? Could anybody give suggestions or comments on any of his CD's. I'm especially interested in his album 'Figure of Speech'. I picked up Mark Helias's 'Loopin' The Cool' a while back and really dug Eskelin's plying on it. The lineup on that CD is Mark Helias-bass, Ellery Eskelin-tenor sax, Regina Carter-violin, Epizo Bangoura-djembe and percussion, Tom Rainey-drums. I like this album a lot and recommend it to all of you. -Tom Pratt ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Carlson Subject: kiss my jazz Date: 28 Mar 1997 19:54:03 -0600 (CST) Can anyone tell me about this band (Kiss My Jazz)? A couple weeks ago I found their cd, "Doc's Place Friday Evening" and really love it. Do they have anything else out? thanks... Brian ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Glenn Astarita" Subject: Re: Ellery Eskelin Date: 29 Mar 1997 10:52:01 -0600 ---------- >> Subject: Ellery Eskelin > Date: Friday, March 28, 1997 5:56 PM > > Are there any Ellery Eskelin fans out there? Could anybody give > suggestions or comments on any of his CD's. I'm especially interested > in his album 'Figure of Speech'. I picked up Mark Helias's 'Loopin' The > Cool' a while back and really dug Eskelin's plying on it. The lineup on > that CD is Mark Helias-bass, Ellery Eskelin-tenor sax, Regina > Carter-violin, Epizo Bangoura-djembe and percussion, Tom Rainey-drums. I > like this album a lot and recommend it to all of you. > > -Tom Pratt Check out his latest..."The Sun Died". A fine and somewhat unique approach dedicated to the late Gene Ammons. Also, "Jazz Trash" would probably be appealing to many of the Zorn list members. Avante and definitely exploratory. A threesome which consists of Andrea Parkins and Jim Black. Eskelin is a bright voice on the sax ! Glenn ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Ellery Eskelin Date: 29 Mar 1997 14:12:42 -0500 (EST) In a message dated 3/29/97 1:59:00 PM, gastarit@comm.net (Glenn Astarita) wrote: <> Figure of Speech is a very solid record. It's a trio date with Joe Daley on tuba and Arto Tuncboyaciyan on percussion from 1993. You also can't go wrong with any of the last few Baron Down records, which to my ears is a band making leaps and strides with each record, the latest being Crackshot on Avant. But the best place to start with Eskelin on record is The Sun Died, a Gene Ammons tribute record on Soul Note with Marc Ribot and Kenny Wolleson. Eskelin really captures the spirit of Ammons' tone and of his music, and Ribot and Wolleson are both great. A really fun record, highly recommended. So, this is probably too far off topic, but a lot of the records that Impulse has been reissuing from the sixties are just amazing. The sound quality on the Coltrane records is far superior to the original CD reissues and both Alice Coltrane records out so far have rocked my world. Next week, they're supposed to put out Archie Shepp-Four For Trane and Pharoah Sanders-Black Unity. For what it's worth, Jon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt Subject: Masada Live? Date: 29 Mar 1997 18:49:13 -0500 I saw somewhere that Masada has a Live CD out there somewhere. Is this still available? Can anyone give me information about this? -Tom Pratt ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: silverwhale Subject: Re: TRADITIONS IN EAST ASIAN BAR BANDS available? Date: 30 Mar 1997 10:56:35 +0200 (GMT+0200) sorry, but... what is it? teemu OnNow: hedningarna:'hippjokk' .............................................. ... e-mail tkorpipa@siba.fi .................. ... ruumen ................................... ... http://www.siba.fi/~tkorpipa/ruumen.html . .............................................. "the only thing that exists is myself" - bomb in 'dark star' ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: TRADITIONS IN EAST ASIAN BAR BANDS available? Date: 30 Mar 1997 11:40:26 -0800 On Sun, 30 Mar 1997 10:56:35 +0200 (GMT+0200) silverwhale wrote: > > > sorry, but... what is it? Game pieces written for two musicians. Patrice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wlt4@aol.com Subject: questions for Wayne Horvitz Date: 31 Mar 1997 09:54:19 -0500 (EST) On Tuesday afternoon, i'll be doing a short interview with Wayne Horvitz, mainly about the Zony Mash project/tour. If anybody has any questions (preferably specific ones) they'd like answered, let me know & if there's time i'll ask him. Best, Lang Thompson http://members.aol.com/wlt4/index.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ssmith@knittingfactory.com (Steve Smith) Subject: Bobby Previte-palooza at the Knit Date: 31 Mar 1997 12:53:00 -0500 Hi - Just a note for New York area Zorn-Listers -- Bobby Previte's new band Latin for Travelers makes its American debut at the Knitting Factory Wednesday night, April 2. This quartet - Jamie Saft from the latest version of Weather Clear, Track Fast on keyboards, Stewart Cutler on guitar and Jerome Harris on bass - is billed as Bobby's "bar band." They've just come off a successful European and Australian tour (where the band featured guitarist Marc Ducret, who was unable to make it to the States) and recorded a week of shows in Australia for a new disc for Enja. The reviews were quite interesting.., several mentioned a prog-rock feel to the material, like Soft Machine, of all things. The 8 pm set will be played by Latin for Travelers, while the 10 pm set will be the "orchestral" (read: largest-ever) version of Bobby's fusion repertoire band The Horse (You Rode In On...). This is a really cool live band that stretches out on material from '70s era Miles Davis and his contemporaries, and has recently worked up some even more adventurous charts like Dave Holland's "Conference of the Birds." For ticket information call (212) 219-3006. And for those unable to make it down, remember that all Knitting Factory shows are broadcast live over the internet at http://www.knittingfactory.com/TheClub.html Steve Smith ssmith@knittingfactory.com Steve Smith Public Relations Manager Knitting Factory / Knitting Factory Works 74 Leonard St., New York, NY 10013 (212) 219-3006 ext. 22 ssmith@knittingfactory.com http://www.knittingfactory.com